Are computer science graduates up to the mark?

[Maula Jatt]

KARACHI: The perception that few among the 35,000-odd computer science graduates the country produces every year are actually skilled was reinforced on Saturday at +92Disrupt, a two-day startup and technology conference held by Katalyst Labs.

The CEO of one of the country’s largest software houses made a 30-minute presentation to drive home a single point: computer science programmes run by Pakistani universities of all stripes are doing a job that’s hardly enviable.

“Universities are focused on everything except teaching the foundation of computer science,” said Yasser Bashir, who co-founded and leads Arbisoft, a prominent software house that employs over 1,000 people and hires on average 50-100 fresh computer science graduates every year.

His insights aren’t anecdotal. Since 2016, Arbisoft has conducted a nationwide exam simultaneously to hire top-of-the-shelf fresh graduates from all universities that teach computer science in Pakistan. In 2023 alone, the software company received interest from 7,000 fresh graduates from 144 universities across the country. After a basic screening process, about 4,000 people took at the same time the 19-minute test that had 30 questions.

“The goal is to test their understanding of the computational problems in computer science,” he said, adding that the questions test the candidates’ understanding of algorithms, programming, data structures, databases, operating systems and discreet math besides assessing their general mental ability.

Mr Bashir said his company “struggles” to find even 10 per cent students — from a pool of about 4,000 test-taking computer science graduates a year — who score even 70pc marks.

His company’s website displays aggregated data of more than 17,000 test-takers from 432 universities and 265 cities. The interactive chart allows one to look at university-wise median scores over the years and change variables like algorithms or discreet math to identify strengths and weaknesses of applicants from each computer science department.

“This kind of test is really great for filtering false positives. If somebody didn’t learn the foundation of computer science in a four-year degree programme, they’re unlikely to do well in writing software,” he said.

Speaking to Dawn, Mr Bashir said the reason for the poor quality of computer science graduates is that universities are incentivised to admit unnecessarily a high number of students every year.

“Even though it sounds counter-intuitive, ours is an over-supply and over-demand problem,” he said.

Are computer science graduates up to the mark?

Computer science programmes run by Pakistani universities of all stripes are doing a job that’s hardly enviable.

www.dawn.com

 

[cloud4000]

Sounds like an accreditation process needs to be put in place.

 

[TNT]

That is true, the new computer science graduates are shit. I interviewed a few guys, their GPA was above 3.5 and guess what, those morons couldnt read basic code, they couldnt retrieve basic stuff from a database using sql. In the end we hired freelancers who didnt get any bachelor degree but were way way better than these high GPA morons. Shows the level of our universities and the stupid sifarshi culture.

 

[Ali_Baba]

That is true, the new computer science graduates are shit. I interviewed a few guys, their GPA was above 3.5 and guess what, those morons couldnt read basic code, they couldnt retrieve basic stuff from a database using sql. In the end we hired freelancers who didnt get any bachelor degree but were way way better than these high GPA morons. Shows the level of our universities and the stupid sifarshi culture.

Most computer science degrees are more mathematical and abstract in conceptual ideas/techniques than practical industry type projects - in my degree at a very good red brick university in the UK - i did 1 large team based practical project - and about 2 dozen smaller computer science type programming projects( formal proofs, writing compilers, image processing - no databases !!! - etc ). I dont recall doing much with SQL or a Database. A lot of math is what i recall.

 

[TNT]

Most computer science degrees are more mathematical and abstract in conceptual ideas/techniques than practical industry type projects - in my degree at a very good red brick university in the UK - i did 1 large team based practical project - and about 2 dozen smaller computer science type programming projects( formal proofs, writing compilers, image processing - no databases !!! - etc ). I dont recall doing much with SQL or a Database. A lot of math is what i recall.

In UK the standard is still good, atleast u can read code, or do basic coding and math is more important. Here we didnt even go into math because its understood they dont know shit about math. If ur transcript shows u studying database systems n sql then u should know basics of it atleast.
Ive done teaching in Pakistan and thats y i know the sifarshi culture. I remember a failing student in my class, his father was a bureaucrat n used to visit every damn week trying to increase grade of his son. I was so fedup i told him ill pass ur son with C grade n guess wat, he wanted A- for his son lolz. I told him ur son is shit and instead of coming here doing sifarish every week u should spend tht time with ur son and make him study. The culture here is pathetic, ur own colleagues will hate u if u dnt give good grades to their relatives.

 

[Haldorss]

Mr Bashir said his company “struggles” to find even 10 per cent students — from a pool of about 4,000 test-taking computer science graduates a year — who score even 70pc marks.

Then you area a moron. Back in 2016 you should have checked the standard and changed it. Mr Bashir should be fired. This moron has affected a generation and he's talking shit at others.

 

[Ali_Baba]

In UK the standard is still good, atleast u can read code, or do basic coding and math is more important. Here we didnt even go into math because its understood they dont know shit about math. If ur transcript shows u studying database systems n sql then u should know basics of it atleast.
Ive done teaching in Pakistan and thats y i know the sifarshi culture. I remember a failing student in my class, his father was a bureaucrat n used to visit every damn week trying to increase grade of his son. I was so fedup i told him ill pass ur son with C grade n guess wat, he wanted A- for his son lolz. I told him ur son is shit and instead of coming here doing sifarish every week u should spend tht time with ur son and make him study. The culture here is pathetic, ur own colleagues will hate u if u dnt give good grades to their relatives.

Thanks. Interesting.

When i interview IT graduates as part of our graduate programmes I never ask them any coding or IT questions - I try to gauge their level of intellect - and see if they can be shaped into the "right stuff". The company does a lot of logical reasonining type questions and we do practical exercises to see their social skills and leadership potential and raw intellect.

I dont of course have your experience with Pakistani graduates or the Pakistani University system !

 

[TNT]

Thanks. Interesting.

When i interview IT graduates as part of our graduate programmes I never ask them any coding or IT questions - I try to gauge their level of intellect - and see if they can be shaped into the "right stuff". The company does a lot of logical reasonining type questions and we do practical exercises to see their social skills and leadership potential and raw intellect.

I dont of course have your experience with Pakistani graduates or the Pakistani University system !

Yes u r correct but its because maybe u interview for higher studies or for a large corporation, but i have my startup and its small, we hire for projects and so we have to make sure we hire someone who can work on the project, if they cant, we lose money and we have deadlines. We were forced by our incubation centre to hire fresh graduates, as part of a funding scheme, but man i couldn't find a single fresh graduate who can work. I cant hire someone that i have to train and shape for months and usually they ll leave for a bigger corporation and we just wasted our time and effort.

 

[Maula Jatt]

Yes u r correct but its because maybe u interview for higher studies or for a large corporation, but i have my startup and its small, we hire for projects and so we have to make sure we hire someone who can work on the project, if they cant, we lose money and we have deadlines. We were forced by our incubation centre to hire fresh graduates, as part of a funding scheme, but man i couldn't find a single fresh graduate who can work. I cant hire someone that i have to train and shape for months and usually they ll leave for a bigger corporation and we just wasted our time and effort.

Idk how it works in tech industry but in my field too - fresh graduates dk a lot
So corporations would hire them for 2-3 years - make them work 60 hours in season, a lot of it is on-the-job training
After those 2-3 years they move out into smaller companies or any other company where they're expected to know everything

 

[TNT]

Idk how it works in tech industry but in my field too - fresh graduates dk a lot
So corporations would hire them for 2-3 years - make them work 60 hours in season, a lot of it is on-the-job training
After those 2-3 years they move out into smaller companies or any other company where they're expected to know everything

It depends on the size of the company, i prefer someone with experience because i hire when i score a project and want them to work on the project ASAP and meet the deadlines. As a small company, i cant afford to train an employee and then they leave for a more reputable company. In Pakistan u know there is no concept of completing ur contract. I had a guy who was poor but talented, trained him, got him to learn so much and then he got a job in big company in Islamabad and he left us in the middle of project. That caused delays and we were set back and had to face alot of issues. My partner had actually stopped me from investing so much in the guy but i wanted to help him. I learned my lesson and now i keep emotions aside when it comes to business.