What's new

Archaeologists confirm Indian civilization is 2000 years older than previou

Are you kidding me?
Buddy, Science isn't like India
no one will burn you for believing in something that is diffident.
Now I understand that your vary identity is based on denying Aryan invasion, but that doesn't change the facts.

There is absolulty no difference between you Hindus who deny the Aryan invasion and Christans who deny evolution.

And you want proof outside science? well I saw this magic act where a guy pulled a coin from his ear, maybe you can ask him.

The Nazis thought the Aryans were the original white people, the pure blood, but of course they were wrong.
And it was accepted as truth before, your Vedas even called the Aryans the noble people.

You are really talking off your bum here,

There is no science to prove aryan invasion theory,only reality is islamic invasion which is not a theory but a fact just like your existence.
 
.
Indians are dravidians who migrated up north and started their gangetic stuff, Pakistanis are Aryans who migrated east and started our IVC.

CASE CLOSED

ya and we dont take Bohar's at face value before dividing their IQ by 100.

More stupidity born out of bigotry. It is possible that elements of contemporary Hinduism came from the practices of those who occupied India before the Aryan-speaking immigrants entered and spread their language, their divine worship and their culture throughout north India, and afterwards, to a lesser extent, to south India. That is all that can be said with certainty. Your little dance about the IVC being alive and present in contemporary practice is not anything that any scholar of repute would accept as a given fact. But that has never stopped the Sangh Parivar and its supporters, has it?

JS

If you think you can distinguish which element of Hinduisn came when,i am sorry,you dont have any basis ot that claim.It is sadly wrong.
 
.
I think this is not about "Indians" claiming to be biological decedents of Harrapa people, but it is the "South Indians" who are claiming to be decedents of a dead civilization which is found in North West of Subcontinent, which is mostly in Pakistan.

Really?

Dude there are detailed records of people having migrated from the north to the south/very south for the past 2000 years and 2000 years is nothing at all.

And Gujarat/Sindh is not too far away from Mahasrashtra/Karnataka.

Says who?
Coastal cities have only been more "advanced" in modern times since all the trade routs are by sea.
In Ancient times the sea was very dangerous way to trade so most trade was done by caravan. Which is why most old cities are not built by the ocean, ie Lahore, Delhi, Beijing, London, Paris, etc.

The ebst cities in the world are those next to rivers and freshwater.
 
. .
IVC scripts not related to urdu , people can change their religion due to many factors but they won't change their mother tongue(whatever happens) but that is not the case with Pakistan. Indus flowing in Pakistan so IVC belongs to Pakistan such thing is ridiculous if we argue in that way British also owners of IVC. Pakistan neither followed IVC religion nor its language so they have nothing to claim on IVC.
 
.
IVC scripts not related to urdu , people can change their religion due to many factors but they won't change their mother tongue(whatever happens) but that is not the case with Pakistan. Indus flowing in Pakistan so IVC belongs to Pakistan such thing is ridiculous if we argue in that way British also owners of IVC. Pakistan neither followed IVC religion nor its language so they have nothing to claim on IVC.

People may have migrated from North to South but the Aryan Invasion thing which says people fighting and killing of natives is a myth.
 
.
IVC scripts not related to urdu , people can change their religion due to many factors but they won't change their mother tongue(whatever happens) but that is not the case with Pakistan. Indus flowing in Pakistan so IVC belongs to Pakistan such thing is ridiculous if we argue in that way British also owners of IVC. Pakistan neither followed IVC religion nor its language so they have nothing to claim on IVC.

Urdu is not native to Pakistan, it is other variant of Khariboli dialect of Uttar Pradesh on which Hindi is also based.
 
.
ya and we dont take Bohar's at face value before dividing their IQ by 100.



JS

If you think you can distinguish which element of Hinduisn came when,i am sorry,you dont have any basis ot that claim.It is sadly wrong.

There is a sound basis for that claim. We are aware of which document or text or religious work came first, and which came next. It is childishly easy to trace the evolution of Hindu theogony, and even of Hindu philosophical school, by following these precedents.

Only complete ignorance of Hinduism and its sources could lead to the kind of defensive statement that you made.
 
.
Every Pakistani who thinks IVC do not exist any more must read above post. We use Swastika in almost every ritual of our day to day life. We and yes including my family practices some of those ancient practices which were practiced 6000 years ago.

I claim I have roots back to ancient IVC and still a part of IVC. I am unable to understand why Pakistanies keep on denial mode over this?? :what:

Pakistanis might be descendent of IVC but we still practice IVC

bro agree with you... there is no cultural affinity towards IVC now in Pakistan..

cultural roots are what identify the people... Islamic culture anywhere has nothing to do with IVC. Those who follow Islam have their roots in Islamic culture and the places from where Islam originated...
 
.
There is a sound basis for that claim. We are aware of which document or text or religious work came first, and which came next. It is childishly easy to trace the evolution of Hindu theogony, and even of Hindu philosophical school, by following these precedents.

Only complete ignorance of Hinduism and its sources could lead to the kind of defensive statement that you made.

No JS,

it is not so simple as you say a chronology of events.

You know that Adi Shankara went and debated with Buddhist theologists and made peace but do you know how the change exactly reflected over the whole country.

what we kept and what we gave up,who did,when they did and why?

The its and bits of information is not complete enough to make a definitive conclusion.

I personally find the IVC getting unecessary focus.

One more thing,the North west is the only land route to enter the peninsula,the other one is from the east through Bangladesh and even there the land is excellent to settle down and not as bad as in the north west.

So,whats the big deal?

local religion/customs/rituals are as much the face of Hinduism as the vedas & upanishads are.
 
.
No JS,

it is not so simple as you say a chronology of events.

You know that Adi Shankara went and debated with Buddhist theologists and made peace but do you know how the change exactly reflected over the whole country.

what we kept and what we gave up,who did,when they did and why?

The its and bits of information is not complete enough to make a definitive conclusion.

I personally find the IVC getting unecessary focus.

One more thing,the North west is the only land route to enter the peninsula,the other one is from the east through Bangladesh and even there the land is excellent to settle down and not as bad as in the north west.

So,whats the big deal?

local religion/customs/rituals are as much the face of Hinduism as the vedas & upanishads are.

Far from debating with Buddhist theologians and 'making peace', Shankaracharya reinstituted a robust and unforgiving form of Hinduism, and challenged every tenet of Buddhism. The compromises that you seem to be referring to, the inclusion of the Buddha in the Dasavatara (in some places, not in others), for instance, the adoption of tantric practices into Hinduism, the cross-references to Buddhist Bodhisatvas and to evocative Shakti representations in very late Hinduism, all were local compromises, not changes effected uniformly throughout the country. Some parts of the country responded more readily to the Hindu re-conquest, other parts resisted longer. Bengal held out until the Turkish invasion totally demolished the still-existing great universities of the north Bihar/north Bengal region. These universities were already under pressure from reformist Hindu dynasties such as the Senas, and had lost imperial patronage that they enjoyed under the Palas.

Details of this process of challenge and response between the Hindu revivalists and the remnants of the Buddhist religious structures are available for each region of India in detail, and will prove difficult only for those who have neither a professional nor an amateur knowledge of the subject. I do not know what you refer to as 'its and bits' of information, considering that the bulk of Indian history in any case consists of such 'its and bits' of information, up to and including the magnificent empire of the Mauryas (the Gupta Empire is rather better understood).

Your second, wholly unconnected point was about the IVC. You say that it is getting unnecessary focus. You may well be right, if you are considering the broad sweep of Indian history. However, what that view overlooks is the central part that the IVC plays in myth-building by those seeking to create an alternative ancient history for what is today Pakistan, an ancient history pre-dating Muslim dynasties which is distinct from the ancient history of other regions that now constitute India. This quest has little to do with history, or with archaeology, or with pre-history, and has everything to do with the politics of identity.

The other reason for the unnecessary focus on the IVC is the urgent need for Hindu revisionists to prove that Indian knowledge of India is not entirely a derivative of western research and scholarly studies, but has the potential for an independent, indigenous basis. In order to prove this non-existent indigenous base of knowledge, Hindu revisionists have attacked anything and everything emanating from western scholarship, including any hint that elements of Hinduism might not be entirely indigenous to India from beginning to end, or that any differences exist in the Indian population today, or existed in the past. This effort is partly based on a denial of the AIT, and the promotion of a highly speculative OOI (Out Of India) theory; an inclusion of the IVC into the broad stream of Indian history, in the teeth of the evidence that shows that little, if any, of the major aspects of that civilization were incorporated into succeeding cultures and, by inference, succeeding political structures; a strident claim that the IVC has contributed substantially to the development of Hinduism, based on isolated visual examples of symbols that have been used in later Hinduism; a denial of a Dravidian domination of Indian spoken languages until the adoption of Indo-Aryan languages through north India, and a number of such initiatives.

Not one of them has been accepted by historians in India or elsewhere, but that only fuels the flames of nationalists seeking to make points by distorting history.

Your point about the north-west is quite shallow. It is reported better, certainly, but the east has been as great a source of immigration as the north-west. Whole cultures, civilisational adjuncts to mainstream Indian civilization have grown up along those exchanges. Only the overwhelmingly north Indian Gangetic Basin bias in Indian history obscures these elementary facts.
 
.
For those who are supporting the myth of Aryan Invasion theory with out any concrete evidence


Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study

HYDERABAD: The great Indian divide along north-south lines now stands blurred. A pathbreaking study by Harvard and indigenous researchers on ancestral Indian populations says there is a genetic relationship between all Indians and more importantly, the hitherto believed ``fact'' that Aryans and Dravidians signify the ancestry of north and south Indians might after all, be a myth.

``This paper rewrites history... there is no north-south divide,'' Lalji Singh, former director of the Centre for Cellular and Molecular Biology (CCMB) and a co-author of the study, said at a press conference here on Thursday.

Senior CCMB scientist Kumarasamy Thangarajan said there was no truth to the Aryan-Dravidian theory as they came hundreds or thousands of years after the ancestral north and south Indians had settled in India.

The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally ``upper'' and ``lower'' castes and tribal groups. ``The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society,'' the study said. Thangarajan noted that it was impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different.

The study was conducted by CCMB scientists in collaboration with researchers at Harvard Medical School,

Harvard School of Public Health and the Broad Institute of Harvard and MIT. It reveals that the present-day Indian population is a mix of ancient north and south bearing the genomic contributions from two distinct ancestral populations - the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI).

``The initial settlement took place 65,000 years ago in the Andamans and in ancient south India around the same time, which led to population growth in this part,'' said Thangarajan. He added, ``At a later stage, 40,000 years ago, the ancient north Indians emerged which in turn led to rise in numbers here. But at some point of time, the ancient north and the ancient south mixed, giving birth to a different set of population. And that is the population which exists now and there is a genetic relationship between the population within India.''

The study also helps understand why the incidence of genetic diseases among Indians is different from the rest of the world. Singh said that 70% of Indians were burdened with genetic disorders and the study could help answer why certain conditions restricted themselves to one population. For instance, breast cancer among Parsi women, motor neuron diseases among residents of Tirupati and Chittoor, or sickle cell anaemia among certain tribes in central India and the North-East can now be understood better, said researchers.

The researchers, who are now keen on exploring whether Eurasians descended from ANI, find in their study that ANIs are related to western Eurasians, while the ASIs do not share any similarity with any other population across the world. However, researchers said there was no scientific proof of whether Indians went to Europe first or the other way round. (I would say India did contributed to the ancient scientific advancements)

Migratory route of Africans

Between 135,000 and 75,000 years ago, the East-African droughts shrunk the water volume of the lake Malawi by at least 95%, causing migration out of Africa. Which route did they take? Researchers say their study of the tribes of Andaman and Nicobar islands using complete mitochondrial DNA sequences and its comparison those of world populations has led to the theory of a ``southern coastal route'' of migration from East Africa through India.

Aryan-Dravidian divide a myth: Study - Times Of India

India has its own rich cultural origins but only thing that did not happened is Indian renaissance because of various factors one of them is Muslim rule and European conquests.
 
.
great post sir,i would have touched your feet if you were there in front of me.

let me reply in sometime.
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom