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Arabs (Hijazis and Yemenis mainly) in Indonesia (Arab-Indonesians - 5 million + population)

Should the Arab world, in particular the GCC, increase its ties with Indonesia and South East Asia?

  • Yes

    Votes: 23 71.9%
  • No

    Votes: 9 28.1%

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Embassy in Indonesia follows up on girl’s search for Saudi father’s family
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The Saudi Embassy announced that it had given them a sum of money to meet their needs pending results of the inquiry. (Supplied)

Nadia al-Fawaz, Al Arabiya English
Monday, 5 March 2018

Saudi Ambassador to Jakarta Osama Al-Shoaibi pledged to follow-up the case of a girl whose Saudi father died a few years ago.

Ten-year-old Haifa Sultan Al-Harbi, who lives in Indonesia, appeared in a video recording on social media in recent days appealing for help to reach out to her late father’s family and relatives in Saudi Arabia.

The ambassador received her along with her mother and pledged to follow-up on their case.

The Saudi Embassy announced that it had given them a sum of money to meet their needs pending results of the inquiry.



A Saudi national on a visit to Indonesia found the orphan child in the province of Puncak Jaya in West Java and decided to help her.


We can only imagine what the real numbers of such children are. We are most likely talking in the several 1000's.

Hopefully her case will be solved.
 
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Wonder where this article came from? Hhhh...hilarious
 
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View attachment 566360
JOURNAL ARTICLE
The Arabs in Indonesia
Justus M. van der Kroef
Middle East Journal
Vol. 7, No. 3 (Summer, 1953), pp. 300-323
Published by: Middle East Institute
https://www.jstor.org/stable/4322510
Page Count: 24
Topics: Islam, Lenders, Southeast Asian studies, Peasant class, Villages, Colonialism, Usury, Loans, Women, Cultural assimilation
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https://www.jstor.org/stable/4322510?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

A Mix of Influences – Discovering Arab Culture in Indonesia
Published/Revised February 19, 2018 By Maria Haase This post may contain promotional and affiliate links. EuropeUpClose may receive commissions for purchases made through links in this post at no extra cost to you. Please read our disclosure for more info.


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Discovering Arab Culture in Indonesia

While this blog is mainly about travel destinations in and around Europe, I wanted to share some of my recent adventures in a different part of the world with you: Indonesia. The archipelago consists of over 17 000 islands and stretches from Singapore to Australia. Indonesia has been influenced by many cultures. Once a hotspot for sought after spices, it didn’t take long for colonists and spice traders from all over the world to settle there, do business and over time, influence the local culture.

Religion in Indonesia
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When Marco Polo spent 5 months in Northern Sumatra in 1291, he already reported that the locals in the cities were followers of Muhammad. The influence of Arab culture in Indonesia varies by region. Aceh, where Marco Polo landed, is over 98% Muslim, while Bali is predominantly Hindu. Christians make up the second largest religious group with about 10% of the population and are spread all over Indonesia. What I found very inspiring is the mostly peaceful co-existence of various cultures and beliefs. In most areas of Indonesia, people are very respectful of other religions and behaviors.

However, Islam is an integral part of daily life in Indonesia, especially outside of Bali. When you drive through the cities and villages, you see colorful mosques and the call to prayer will guide you through the day. Many women wear jilbabs and long, conservative clothing and while alcohol is available in touristy areas, hotels, and resorts, Indonesia (again: outside of Bali) is not your typical Southeast Asia Backpacker party destination. Which in itself can be positive or negative depending on what you are looking for in your vacation.

Palembang, South Sumatra
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When I was in Palembang, the capital of South Sumatra, I was able to experience the influence of Arab culture in Indonesia first hand. I had just arrived after a 20+ hour plane ride with Singapore Airlines from Los Angeles and needed to kill time before bed, or jet lag would have killed me. After checking into my hotel (I stayed at the Santika Hotel), I headed out to see some sights.

AL-QUR’AN AL-AKBAR
The Al-Qur’an Al-Akbar mosque in Palembang honestly does not look like much from the outside. It doesn’t have the bulbous domes and colorful spires that most mosques have. Instead, it is a tall-ish tower hidden behind trees that I certainly would have passed by, had it not been for my local guide.

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But when I stepped inside, I was awestruck. The Al-Qur’an Al-Akbar mosque features the largest wood-carved Quran in the world. The 630 pages are carved on almost 6 feet tall, black wooden sheets with gold-leaf lettering, filling multiple rows and 5 stories up. Each sheet swivels around a center pole and is covered on both sides with exquisite Arabic carvings sharing the word of Allah.

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As I was taking photos of the 100 foot tall Quran, I discovered a group of women in the back of the mosque who were having choir practice. I listened to their beautiful voices and drums. During an interlude, I asked my guide if it was ok to take photos of them. Not only were they ok with it, they were not satisfied until they all had taken a selfie with me, as well as several group photos and performed one of their songs. This was such a warm and welcoming experience to Indonesia – completely unplanned and unexpected, but yet one of my favorite memories of my whole trip.

ARABIC VILLAGE ALMUNAWAR
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Another incredible experience of Arabic culture in Indonesia was my visit to the Arabic village of Almunawar near Palembang. It is built close to the Musi river that bisects the Indonesian port city in the South. The brightly colored boats and buildings along the river banks look colorful and inviting. Kids play in the water, women do their chores, some are bathing and brushing their teeth. If it weren’t for the speedboats racing by, this scene could have taken place a hundred years ago.

Sharing a Meal with Locals
In this village, women have to cover themselves, even tourists. I wore loose-fitting, airy pants, and a light long-sleeved shirt with a light scarf draped over my hair, as I was invited into the home of a local Muslim family for a traditional meal. The local family welcomed me into their home and shared their food with me, my friends and our guide. It was an incredible experience.

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We sat on the carpeted floor and were offered a spread of delectable dishes. Small plates of fish and chicken curry, salads, sauces and pineapple slices surrounded the highlight of the meal: chunks of lamb on a bed of saffron rice.

After we finished our meal, our host showed us his house. His son, maybe 9 or 10 years old, as well as a few of his friends, stuck their heads inside, only to squirm away when I took their photos, giggling shyly from their hiding place on the balcony. My travel companion and proud Texan Debbie coaxed them out by offering them Texas-shaped pins and they quickly warmed up to us afterward. This interaction with a local family, eating the local food and being welcomed with open arms into this family’s home is why I travel. It gave me a glimpse of the Arab culture in Indonesia.

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Discovering Arab Culture in Indonesia – Pin for later:
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Disclosure: My trip to Indonesia was courtesy of the Indonesian Consulate in Houston, the Indonesian Ministry of Tourism and the local Tourism Boards of South Sumatra and Riau Islands. They organized and sponsored my trip, while Singapore Airlines (read my full Singapore Airlines Review here) graciously covered my flights, however, my opinion on this blog remains my own and I am sharing my experience and adventures in Indonesia as objectively as possible

https://europeupclose.com/article/arab-culture-in-indonesia/



Michael Gilsenan

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Vol. 25 No. 6 · 20 March 2003
pages 7-11 | 4912 words

Out of the Hadhramaut
Michael Gilsenan traces the Arab diaspora in South-East Asia

Arabs have been travelling east for centuries. They settled chiefly in what are now Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia, though ‘settled’ hardly describes the movements from town to town, island to island as connections, markets, goods, the main chance or a father’s instruction dictated. The majority of these Arabs are from the Hadhramaut region of south-eastern Yemen, which was ruled until 1967 by the British as part of the East Aden Protectorates. Many moved first to India, staying in the south-west or in Gujarat, for example. ‘All our family look Indian,’ the father of an ‘Arab’ Singaporean friend of mine said last year, showing me his old photographs. Others or their progeny journeyed on to the hundreds of islands of the Malay Archipelago, bringing their capital, dress, cuisine and manners with them.

They came as sailors, pedlars, traders of all sorts, cloth merchants, spice dealers, preachers, teachers and sometimes all of the above in a single lifetime. A few married into the families of local sultans and other notables, especially if they could claim the distinction of being a seyyid, a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad. (The current King of Malaysia is of the seyyid Jamalullail family.) A few families tell dramatic tales of shipwreck, slavery, recognition and marriage to the princess. Most married at less exalted levels, sometimes wives of different ethnic origin, in different places of business and travel: in the states of Kedah, Terengganu, Pahang, Johore, Riau and Singapore; the towns of Palembang, Aceh, Medan, Deli, Lampung in Sumatra or on the north Java coast where Arabs clustered in what was Batavia (now Jakarta), Cirebon, Pekalongan, Semarang, Surabaya and right out to Sulawesi, the Maluku islands, East Timor. In such a diaspora, family is an even more than usually diverse and multi-stranded set of relations. The inverted commas I place around ‘Arab’ express this shape-changing quality, its use situationally shifting and variously stressed, if stressed at all.

Marriages, social networks and the accidents of demography did their work. Families began to trace descent as much on the mother’s as on the father’s side – the one privileged in Arab genealogy. ‘We’re al-Attas-es,’ a friend told me, ‘but really we’re much more al-Sagoffs because we grew up with my mother’s family.’ Bridegrooms not uncommonly moved in with the girl’s family after marriage – another break with tradition. Some chose Javanese or Malay names, say, rather than the Muhammad bin (son of) Ahmad bin Hussein kind common in Arab reckoning, and which seem so odd to South-East Asians, who tend to use a single name with no ‘family name’ attached. Hamid could become Wito; half a group of siblings might choose to change their names while the others kept to the Arab pattern. Nicknames and pet names flourished, too, the originals hardly used and forgotten by most. Children grew up speaking one or more of the many languages of the region: Madurese, Sundanese, Minangkabau, Javanese (even a dialect of Chinese when the mother was from China) and, in the 20th century, the new national languages of Malay and Bahasa Indonesia. Many assimilated completely.

Colonial racial classification of subaltern groups, together with restrictions on dress and residence and the clustering together of migrant populations, helped to create as well as maintain an apartness as ‘Arab’, although intermarriage was the norm. Bodies changed, idioms of ‘blood’ became naturalised, to the point that on one occasion a proud Indonesian aunt took me through the ‘eleven bloods’ of her shyly patient ten-year-old nephew, each blood indicated quite clearly in her account by a bodily feature, skin colour, hair texture, eye shape, bone structure and so on. Who does and does not ‘look Arab’ is a source of much conversation, often highly amused though occasionally charged.

The migrants got along under the colonial regimes, dealing with powers as they found them. Later, during the struggles for independence and after, this sometimes cost them dearly. Nationalists inveighed against those who worked with the British and the Dutch, were friends of the colonials and not true Indonesians or Singaporeans or Malays. Arabs were popularly associated with moneylending, land and property ownership and close relations with the Dutch in Indonesia. But some Arabs were distinguished nationalists themselves, Communist in a few cases, anti-imperial Islamist reformers in others. If the elite had to learn Indonesian, having been brought up speaking Dutch, that simply put them on a par with Sukarno, the hero of Indonesian nationalism. In Malaysia and Singapore, where Arabs were a tiny minority, histories were different and the stereotypes far less negative or significant.

The degree to which Arabs were responsible for the long and uneven period of Islamisation of the region since the later 13th century is much disputed. (Islamisation is a tricky term, to put it mildly, not least if it is taken to imply an irresistible wave of conversion to a homogeneous Islam.) South India is the source favoured by scholars. But Arabs are perceived as the carriers of the language of the Koran and as vehicles of religious truths and texts. They come from the heartlands of Islam and what Indonesians, for instance, will on occasion call the centre of the faith, as distinct from their own periphery. On other occasions, however, when contact with Saudi officials on the pilgrimage to the holy cities of the Hijaz becomes abrasive, the periphery seems a place of greater civilisation than the centre.

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Many Arabs in South-East Asia have preached and taught. Many still do, though they are very much a minority among the wider Indonesian population of religious specialists. They bear some authenticating stamp of origin, especially if they have trained in Cairo at al-Aqsa or in Mecca or Medina. Certain religious boarding schools, usually identified as being more conservative, are still run by a karismatik kyai(‘religious teacher’) of Arab origin. Pupils come from all over the archipelago to be taught by a celebrated teacher. Travelling to the source of education is an important part of that period of life and networks formed at the pesantren often last for years, as does reverence for the kyai.

The holy men’s tombs scattered across the islands also suggest other, more interestingly complex relations. The shrine of Luar Batang, for example, dating from the 1730s, has its yearly pilgrimage and a daily stream of visitors seeking baraka, or ‘favour’, ‘help from God’. On the coast at Jakarta, the shrine is easily flooded, recalling the story that after the holy man’s death an island of sand rose from the sea and the bearers of the saint’s bier were compelled to inter him there, where the elements miraculously met and merged. A place of shifting elements and boundaries, Luar Batang also marks another meeting. It contains two holy tombs, those of the seyyidHussein al-Attas and his companion Abd al-Qadir, a Chinese convert who is buried beside him. He who does not pay a ritual visit to the tomb of Abd al-Qadir, the seyyidsaid, his pilgrimage to me is void. Many Chinese business people sacrifice there for good fortune, the guardian told me. (Another worshipper alluded to disputes about the administration of the mosque, the distribution of funds, the architecture of an extension – all the classic parochial issues.) Arab-Chinese relations often seem to have been, and are still, personally, even professionally collaborative, though the standard argument for the economic decline of many Arab families is that Chinese competition, in batik for example, drove them out of business.

This complicated tangle of histories and cultures had superficially impinged on me when a year’s VSO teaching in the then Crown Colony of Aden and the Protectorates brought me to Hadhramaut in 1959 as a 19-year-old instrument of the declining Empire. I was naively astonished by the fact that students at Aden College who were from the Hadhramaut routinely spoke Indonesian or Malay or other South-East Asian languages; that they would lament being stuck in Arabia when they could be enjoying themselves in Jakarta or Singapore; that they ate highly spiced food, nasi goreng and a range of rice dishes, wore the long sarong and ‘looked Malay’, or whatever description they or their friends gave themselves.

Forty years later I decided to make a return to the source of that once colonial society, but this time in Asia. What did and does ‘being Arab’ or ‘being of Arab descent’ mean in the pluricultural world of the archipelago? How had such meanings, histories, families changed over four, five or more generations?

In 1999 I spent a year between Java and Singapore, engaged in a kind of pre-research – travelling, meeting people, mostly creatively, but completely out of my depth. Scholars in Jakarta and Singapore generously introduced me to a wide range of people, the majority of whom seemed happy, even eager, to answer my questions. Some academics were surprised that I found the topic fascinating. Some whose Arab connections dated from way back, in what was to them the uninteresting past, found the issue entirely irrelevant. They wondered, very politely, why anyone would spend their time on it when there were so many other things to research. The very limited index references to Arabs in academic writings on South-East Asia seemed to confirm their judgment. Others, especially those with a seyyid ancestor, were busy working out their genealogies.

More interestingly, some middle-aged businessmen from Jakarta told me how they had rediscovered their Arab roots over the past ten years or so. That they had done so was linked to the rise of a ‘new Muslim middle class’ in Indonesia during the 1980s, as prejudice against anyone thought to be Arab became fainter. As Islamic modernism or conservatism of various kinds became more evident and the public presentation of oneself as a pious middle-class Muslim more widespread, being Arab no longer seemed such a stigma. The businessmen recalled, word for word, the derogatory phrases about Arabs in the Dutch textbooks they had read at school. They recalled, too, hiding or disclaiming their Arab identity where at all possible. It was only in the past decade that they had met up again, recreating a group that had not socialised for over thirty years. That socialising led to their helping with and donating to orphanages, educational institutions, mosques and charities. Meanwhile, their children were mostly professionals. The son of my closest friend in the group was off to Germany to work for Siemens. His father had spent years in Japan and cooked excellent Japanese food. The son’s best friend was a Chinese Christian. My friend’s daughter, also a professional, was as interested as her father in the genealogy he was exhaustively preparing, rather to her brother’s amusement.

As the past was being recuperated and reshaped, I heard many nostalgic family narratives of lost properties, eroded status, demolished great houses, vanished ways of living, of descent into insignificance and poverty. I also met well-to-do owners of construction firms, real estate agents, property and store owners and entrepreneurs of all kinds – publishers, bookshop proprietors, journalists and academics, small traders and religious teachers, people who’d done well and as many who just got by. In short, a mixture.

In March 2002 I returned to the region for five months, this time staying in Singapore and Malaysia. In between these two visits the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon took place. Islamic and Arab terror became an omnipresent theme discussed by states and media alike. South-East Asian Muslims of Arab descent were suddenly faced once again with a public emphasis on their ethnicity, and now there was an additional identification of that ethnicity with violence.

The war in Afghanistan, al-Qaida, the second Palestinian intifada in the Occupied Territories, the Bali bombing on 12 October last year and the mobilisation for war in and on Iraq meant that the subject of ‘Arab’ violence was everywhere. Newspapers picked up on the Yemeni Arab origins of certain leaders of radical groups, especially in Indonesia, and speculated about time spent by some Arabs in Yemen receiving a religious education of a sort alleged to have produced fanatics. Those videos and snapshots of visits back to the cousins that I had been shown so often weren’t innocent any more. In the eyes of Western media, the Hadhramaut is now and for the foreseeable future bin Laden country (his family migrated from there to the Hijaz, not to Singapore or Indonesia). Now we all know about the ‘Arabs’ of South-East Asia.

But that isn’t what being of Arab descent in South-East Asia means to me.

April, 2000. I am visiting Malang, an important town, second only to the port of Surabaya in the manufacturing, industrial and agricultural zone of East Java. I’ve been to Surabaya several times and have now driven an hour and a half south into the mountains to this Dutch-designed colonial town that has a population of over a million. The 1970s and 1980s saw a lot of growth here. Since then, political and economic crises have fractured people’s lives. There is no Arab quarter in Malang, no kampung Arab. Not like Surabaya, for instance, where the Ampel district surrounds the tomb of a powerful saint said to be Arab, whose baraka is cited as one reason for high house prices in the vicinity. But people say there’s a small Arab community of a few thousand people in Malang, and that I might find it interesting.



I have an introduction to Ahmad, a leading real estate-agent from a family of Arab origin. His father, around ninety years old and a formidable personality, speaks impeccable Arabic – he was taught by his immigrant father who came from the Hadhramaut and started in the textile trade in a neighbouring town. He explains to me that there is a small group of descendants, with only a few families bearing the same name in other East Javanese cities – Tegal, Pekalongan, Solo, Surabaya and Malang itself. All the wives in his branch were Javanese. There used to be many Arabs, but they’ve disappeared, he says, matter-of-factly. Discipline and routine, he repeats again and again, discipline and routine, those are what make a life. Things aren’t what they were. Now an ‘Arab real-estate agent’ tends to be someone who only has a couple of houses he renovates and sells, then buys a couple more, and sells them, too. Is that business? His sons, in their fifties, shuffle their feet and wait for his instructions.

He taught them about Islam and about business and sent all 11 children to state universities after, unusually, they all attended a Malang Catholic school. His Muslim friends had been scandalised, but knowledge can be acquired anywhere, and if a Catholic school was best then a Catholic school it would be. He said his daughters were better organised than their brothers, a forthright pronouncement that caused more foot shuffling.

For Ahmad, as for the vast majority of locals, these are tough years. Business is going badly. He has more time than he really wants to devote to his directorship of the local football team, Malang United Soccer. He’s attempting to organise the fans into about 260 groups of a hundred or so, each with a ‘co-ordinator’: roughly 26,000 Malang youth, quite a number. I sit in on a regular pre-match meeting at the chairman’s house. He, too, is of Arab descent, and is chief of the local education and culture office, though he says he spends more time on soccer than in his office. God knows why, he exclaims with a grin. Two young co-ordinators, street lads who look as tough as hell, flip through the membership cards of their group and nod seriously at Ahmad’s instructions. The old pattern of local football clubs everywhere: businessmen and shopkeepers on one side, working classes and ‘the youth’ on the other; sometimes delicate, tacit negotiations about life on the streets reworked into discussions of 4-4-2 and new shirts for the team.

At the stadium, I stand in what’s called the VIP area, crammed together with other directors’ guests at the top of a steep staircase that comes out halfway up the narrow terraces of the shallow arena. The stadium is packed with men, none of whom looks older than 25. There are banners all around the fence, one of them a large Union Jack. Thousands are wearing either Italian blue or Chelsea, Man Utd or Liverpool colours – the colours dominate the coverage on TV. After the final whistle, I’m seized by four or five enthusiastic lads in the seething crowd: ‘Inggris?’ they yell happily, ‘Inggris? Hooligan, Hooligan! Yeeess!’ in obvious delight at our shared culture.

We drive gingerly through the supporters and Ahmad has plenty of time to talk about Malang Arabs. Of the local men who migrated from the Hadhramaut, only three survive, all in their nineties. Everyone else is at least second and often fourth generation. We were going to see one of the three. He came in 1928, running, he said, when we finally arrived at his small house, from poverty in the desert. He settled initially in a village near Malang but moved into the town, where he opened a small shop before joining the furniture trade. Things went well and he married a Malang woman. Unlike some members of his generation, he never went back. Now all his friends are dead. His children all speak Javanese as well as Indonesian and work in shops. No one speaks Arabic. They don’t see any point.

Some in Malang have capital from years spent in trade in Saudi Arabia or the Gulf. A few have visited the Hadhramaut, usually after making the Pilgrimage. They have small albums of photographs of three, four, five and six-storey adobe, and make shocked comments about low economic development, poor hygiene and the living conditions of the cousins who still live in the ancestral village. Some have sent a son back to the Hadhramaut to be raised there and taught in a prestigious religious school, an old practice that has picked up again since the Marxist government of South Yemen was displaced in 1990. Others think this is all very pious and fine, but a waste of money. They are not at all sure they approve of the legalistic and moralistic Islam that their sons or cousins may preach on their return. Many I met were more interested in the business skills that could be learned in Australia or elsewhere. I often heard the lament that their Arab grandfathers and fathers had not thought enough about education, and had simply pushed their sons into the family business.

On another day, we have a tour of the region and lunch at a café in the small town of Batu, higher in the mountains. The Café Mecir (from Misr, the Arabic word for Egypt; in Indonesia pronounced Mechir) belongs to an ‘Arab’ friend. So, I’m told, do the various cafés called Kairo that I’ve noticed en route. The owner won’t let us pay. Ahmad has helped him out and is always a welcome guest. There’s a lot of teasing. ‘The only thing left that’s Arab about you is your long beard; you don’t speak a word of Arabic,’ Ahmad says to the owner, grinning conspiratorially at us. ‘Speak Arabic with Pak Michael, go on! He speaks Arabic. Go on! With a beard like that in Yemen you’d perfume it; here you mothball it to get rid of the cockroaches!’

So much for the sacred beard, a sign of piety with the Prophet’s beard the exemplar. It is distinctively Arab because, as a Javanese friend tells me, fingering his wispy moustache, ‘we can’t grow beards like that. They’re hairy, the Arabs.’ And he went into the common repertoire of dirty jokes that feature Arab sexual appetites and bodily attributes.

Ahmad’s teasing of the café-owner makes me think of the more serious consequences that ‘looking Arab’ might have, and the background to the question I was often asked in Indonesia because I had worked in the Middle East: do I look Arab? The consequences were once explained to me in Jakarta by a 27-year-old professional woman, daughter of an oil executive who cultivates his Arab roots. Her brother looks Arab, she said, but she, fortunately, does not. ‘I look Chinese. From my mother, who is Chinese.’ She recalled how she had been particularly cruel in bullying an ‘Arab’ classmate, all the crueller because she was so afraid of being identified as Arab herself. The girl had had a nervous breakdown, she added, expressing shame and regret at her adolescent cowardice. To look Chinese while not actually being Chinese was also to have a beautiful and ‘white’ complexion and straight hair, much admired. Arabs are ‘dark’ and frizzy headed, a low status marker.

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She knew, on the other hand, that ‘looking Chinese’ could also be deeply precarious, as in the terrifying riots of 1998 in Jakarta, when being identified as Chinese had led in some instances to lynching and rape. The ‘Chinese’ were stereotypically rich, the predominant economic force in the country, bloodsuckers. For two elderly ‘Arab’ sisters in Bandung it was a huge joke that a nephew of theirs had been pursued down the street during the riot by a crowd thirsty for Chinese blood while he shrieked ‘I’m an Arab! I’m an Arab!’ over his shoulder. ‘His mother is Chinese,’ they explained with delight now that the event was simply a delicious story rather than a family horror.

According to the stereotype, ‘Arabs’ are voracious, lustful, hard, greedy and rough – quite unlike the image of the harmoniously reserved, controlled and aestheticising ‘authentic Javanese’. And the Javanese, in turn, are mocked by other Indonesians or themselves, depending on the situation, as deceptive, cunning and untrustworthy, not to mention afflicted with a cultural superiority complex and an overdeveloped sense of hierarchy. In another field of reference, ‘Arabs’ are the channels of Islam, pious, upright, representing learning and a pure, ‘unmixed’ religion.

So Ahmad’s teasing is very pointed. But the beleaguered café-owner has other things on his mind and wants my advice. He plans to visit the Hadhramaut but everyone tells him the people there will expect ruinously expensive presents. I don’t get a chance to act the adviser. Ahmad is on him in a flash: ‘It’s easy. You’ve got a Kijang and a Landcruiser and another car, so why not just take the Landcruiser to Yemen and give it to them?’ The owner looks infinitely gloomy. Ahmad continues: ‘Make a point of going when it isn’t the end of Ramadan or another festival: that way you can sneak out without even mentioning presents.’ More laughter, more gloom. But the mung bean and red curries are wonderful, the lamb satay, yellow soup and white rice quite as good, the table laden. ‘Arab food’ here is very different from the nasi kabuli (mutton with rice) of a Surabaya wedding, taken to be the definitive Arab dish, much to the disdain of a Javanese friend who claimed to be astonished that something so basic would do for a feast. In Batu, with no need to mark some specifically Arab social form, the Café Mecir is free to be authentically ‘mixed’.

Batu has about two thousand people of Arab descent, originally refugees from two major clans who fled to the mountains of East Java following the Japanese invasion of south Kalimantan. Now they mostly work in small shops and restaurants like this one, serving locals and the Indonesian tourists who come to this beauty spot for relief from the heat of the coast. We visit a small new school with kindergarten and elementary pupils, established by a group partly made up of men of Arab descent who characterise themselves as modern, progressive Muslims. They’re also trying to raise money for a new school in Malang. I wonder about competition with the celebrated Hadith Boarding School, pesantren al-Hadits (‘Hadith’ refers to the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad) in Malang, now run, in a typical pattern, by the seyyid son-in-law of the seyyid founder’s son. He had talked to me about his school on two occasions, but hadn’t mentioned other approaches to Islamic education. I heard later that his father-in-law had in fact had very good relations with some of the ‘modernists’. In some towns the opposition between the two camps runs deep, but in this region rivalry appears to be more muted.

We move on with the director of the Batu kindergarten and friends to a house Ahmad has built for his brother, where we are serenaded by birds whose cages hang from the ceiling. They have won prizes, the proud owner tells me. He is something of a connoisseur of this popular Javanese pastime. A few framed Koranic verses or phrases in ornate gilt calligraphy ornament the walls, but there is none of the iconography of Arabness, such as the framed rows of photographs of bearded ancestral holy men that decorate seyyid homes; there is no ‘Arab’ space marked out in the corner of the sitting-room with cushions and rugs on the floor; no religious books in Arabic in glass-fronted bookcases; no wearing of the check-patterned sarongs often thought of as typically Arab; no tea in small glasses.

No genealogies either. At least, not on the walls. But the conversation moves quickly to family. A friend named in the Arab way, Muhammad bin Ahmad al-Hadrami, who is only second generation Indonesian, starts telling me about his father, who came here with his brother and without money. They had received no help from the wealthy Singapore Hadhrami families who in the past often gave new migrants money and assisted their passage to Indonesia. The two brothers had worked with locals in Pekalongan, a famous batik centre that had its own kampung Arab. (It has its shrine to an Arab seyyid, too, and an Islamic school, run, as in Malang, by a seyyid family.) They’d saved and put the money into the batik business, despite tough Chinese competition. His father bought buses for the Pekalongan to Semarang route, despite tough Chinese competition and ‘conflict’. Now Muhammad, who married a Javanese woman from Malang – unlike his father, who married into an Arab family – has several small restaurants and a real estate business. ‘In Arabia,’ he said, grimacing, ‘those tribal types with their guns and knives, my God they’re tough.’ Another Indonesian Arab image of Arabs. I doubt he’s planning a nostalgic trip to the homeland.

‘Being of Arab origin’ often involves such narratives and a command over the minutiae of migration histories, one’s own and others. Geographies, trajectories, itineraries, genealogies and histories are argued over, refined, claimed and denied to others who share the interest and the origin. To some it all matters intensely, to others hardly at all, or only in limited situations.

We leave Batu for Malang and stop on the way at a large bonsai garden centre. Another of Ahmad’s Arab friends from East Java owns it. He’s the son of a retired police general from another town and has been working on bonsai for eight years since the collapse of the family business made him ‘depressed’. For three years it’s been his profession, learned from the American and Japanese books scattered around on a table in the gazebo. Now he enters national and regional Asian competitions. The buyers come from Japan, South Korea and Holland, as well as from all over Java. I look admiringly at the strangely-worked beauty of his art while the two men talk intimately together.

Under the violent rain whose splashes make them almost invisible, the ornamental fish of auspicious omen turn slowly in their pools. Buyers will come from the city, representing big hotels and office buildings that have a vested interest in harmonious spatial orientation, the paths of dangerous forces finessed by curving lines and flowing waters. International and local capital seeks aesthetic Asian form from the ‘Arab’ bonsai artist. The clouds have come down around us, the valley has vanished. The three of us stand quietly for a moment in the tropical rain surrounded by the elegant torsions of the miniature black trees.

lg.php

Reflecting on that moment, I think of the often elusive shapes and colours, some barely glimpsed, of being Arab in South-East Asia: of the ambiguities, the polyvalent culture, the range of economic, political, social and religious interests, the very different histories. All that risks being lost in the rhetorics of the present moment. Somehow, even if only in writing about the everyday worlds of places such as Malang, such falsifications have to be contested.

https://www.lrb.co.uk/v25/n06/michael-gilsenan/out-of-the-hadhramaut
 
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New Pact Puts Indonesia-Saudi Arabia Military Ties in the Spotlight

A look at what the ratification of a defense agreement means in the context of the broader security ties between the two countries.


By Prashanth Parameswaran
October 10, 2018

Last week, Indonesia moved to finally ratify a defense cooperation agreement that it had inked with Saudi Arabia. While the legal move represents just the latest step in the development of defense ties between the two sides, it nonetheless put the spotlight on the ongoing activity in this aspect of the relationship and the potential implications for its future evolution.

Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, two Muslim-majority nations, have diplomatic ties that date all the way back to 1950. But the development of the defense aspect of the relationship is a more recent trend that has occurred in just the last few years.

A landmark event in that context was the signing of the first defense cooperation agreement (DCA) between the two countries back in 2014. At the time, the development received significant headlines, with Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Salman bin Sultan Abdul Aziz Al Saud, who had signed the agreement on the Saudi side, paying the first visit to Indonesia by an official at that level and participating in a range of engagements, including viewing Indonesian defense technology and firing a submachine gun and hand gun at an Indonesian special forces (Kopassus) shooting range.

As with other pacts of its ilk, the DCA between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia – the first Jakarta had signed with any Middle Eastern nation – covered a range of functional areas, including education, training, exchanges, and defense industry cooperation, but also a number of issue areas where interests of both sides converged, such as counterterrorism. Both sides also flagged potential future areas of cooperation during the visit, including exercises, Saudi purchase of Indonesian defense equipment, and collaboration on common areas such as peacekeeping, as evidenced by Riyadh’s donation of an Arabic language laboratory to the Indonesian Peace and Security Center.

Last week, the formalization of defense ties took another procedural step forward with the formal legislative approval of the Indonesia-Saudi Arabia DCA. The move was formally and publicly announced on October 2 following weeks of prior discussions leading up to that.

Speaking to the significance of the move, Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said the step represented progress for the development of a legal umbrella on top of defense ties, and expressed his gratitude for various parties for facilitating its development.

Ryacudu did not go into specifics about what this would mean for Indonesia-Saudi Arabia defense cooperation. But with this advancement we have now seen, it will be interesting to watch how this tangibly affects the future evolution of the defense relationship in the coming years.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/new-pact-puts-indonesia-saudi-arabia-military-ties-in-the-spotlight/

1555334707.jpg

President Joko 'Jokowi' Widodo meeting with King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud at his palace in Riyadh on Sunday. (Photo courtesy of the State Palace)

Indonesia, Saudi Arabia Agree to Further Strengthen Ties
BY : CHRISTIAN LEE

APRIL 15, 2019

Jakarta. President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo and King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud have agreed during a bilateral meeting in Riyadh on Sunday to further strengthen economic ties between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia.

"President Jokowi and King Salman agreed to increase economic cooperation in the future, especially in the energy and tourism sectors," Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi said after the meeting.

The Saudi government has also agreed to raise Indonesia's annual hajj quota by 10,000 to 231,000 pilgrims.

Ace Hasan Syadzily, deputy chairman of House of Representatives Commission VIII, which oversees religious affairs, said Indonesians currently spend up to 18 years on average on a waiting list to perform the hajj pilgrimage.

"The additional hajj quota will reduce the waiting list for Indonesian pilgrims. In South Sulawesi, the waiting list is up to 40 years," Ace said in a statement on Monday.

He added that the increased quota would not have been granted if Indonesia did not have close ties with Saudi Arabia.

Jokowi also met with Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir to discuss cooperation on counterterrorism and spreading a more moderate brand of Islam.

They also discussed ways the two countries can work together to support the Palestinian cause.

"As we know, the future of Palestine is becoming more unclear and it is the duty of Saudi Arabia and Indonesia to continue improving cooperation and to support the Palestinian cause," Retno said.

https://jakartaglobe.id/context/indonesia-saudi-arabia-agree-to-further-strengthen-ties

What I love about Indonesia and South East Asia as a whole and other Shafi'i dominated strongholds is that there is no tolerance or room for a certain very harmful trojan horse sect within their society. Certain small parts of the Arab world should have learned that lesson before getting infected and turning into ******** (unfortunately) areas.

@Indos



Let us not forget the significant community of naturalized Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin in Hijaz. One of the largest minority groups in KSA and one of the largest Indonesian diasporas in the world. Indonesia does not have such ties with any other country in the MENA hence the historically very close and warm ties people to people. Now reflected by both governments.
 
.
New Pact Puts Indonesia-Saudi Arabia Military Ties in the Spotlight

A look at what the ratification of a defense agreement means in the context of the broader security ties between the two countries.


By Prashanth Parameswaran
October 10, 2018

Last week, Indonesia moved to finally ratify a defense cooperation agreement that it had inked with Saudi Arabia. While the legal move represents just the latest step in the development of defense ties between the two sides, it nonetheless put the spotlight on the ongoing activity in this aspect of the relationship and the potential implications for its future evolution.

Indonesia and Saudi Arabia, two Muslim-majority nations, have diplomatic ties that date all the way back to 1950. But the development of the defense aspect of the relationship is a more recent trend that has occurred in just the last few years.

A landmark event in that context was the signing of the first defense cooperation agreement (DCA) between the two countries back in 2014. At the time, the development received significant headlines, with Saudi Deputy Defense Minister Salman bin Sultan Abdul Aziz Al Saud, who had signed the agreement on the Saudi side, paying the first visit to Indonesia by an official at that level and participating in a range of engagements, including viewing Indonesian defense technology and firing a submachine gun and hand gun at an Indonesian special forces (Kopassus) shooting range.

As with other pacts of its ilk, the DCA between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia – the first Jakarta had signed with any Middle Eastern nation – covered a range of functional areas, including education, training, exchanges, and defense industry cooperation, but also a number of issue areas where interests of both sides converged, such as counterterrorism. Both sides also flagged potential future areas of cooperation during the visit, including exercises, Saudi purchase of Indonesian defense equipment, and collaboration on common areas such as peacekeeping, as evidenced by Riyadh’s donation of an Arabic language laboratory to the Indonesian Peace and Security Center.

Last week, the formalization of defense ties took another procedural step forward with the formal legislative approval of the Indonesia-Saudi Arabia DCA. The move was formally and publicly announced on October 2 following weeks of prior discussions leading up to that.

Speaking to the significance of the move, Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said the step represented progress for the development of a legal umbrella on top of defense ties, and expressed his gratitude for various parties for facilitating its development.

Ryacudu did not go into specifics about what this would mean for Indonesia-Saudi Arabia defense cooperation. But with this advancement we have now seen, it will be interesting to watch how this tangibly affects the future evolution of the defense relationship in the coming years.

https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/new-pact-puts-indonesia-saudi-arabia-military-ties-in-the-spotlight/

1555334707.jpg

President Joko 'Jokowi' Widodo meeting with King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud at his palace in Riyadh on Sunday. (Photo courtesy of the State Palace)

Indonesia, Saudi Arabia Agree to Further Strengthen Ties
BY : CHRISTIAN LEE

APRIL 15, 2019

Jakarta. President Joko "Jokowi" Widodo and King Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud have agreed during a bilateral meeting in Riyadh on Sunday to further strengthen economic ties between Indonesia and Saudi Arabia.

"President Jokowi and King Salman agreed to increase economic cooperation in the future, especially in the energy and tourism sectors," Indonesian Foreign Minister Retno Marsudi said after the meeting.

The Saudi government has also agreed to raise Indonesia's annual hajj quota by 10,000 to 231,000 pilgrims.

Ace Hasan Syadzily, deputy chairman of House of Representatives Commission VIII, which oversees religious affairs, said Indonesians currently spend up to 18 years on average on a waiting list to perform the hajj pilgrimage.

"The additional hajj quota will reduce the waiting list for Indonesian pilgrims. In South Sulawesi, the waiting list is up to 40 years," Ace said in a statement on Monday.

He added that the increased quota would not have been granted if Indonesia did not have close ties with Saudi Arabia.

Jokowi also met with Saudi Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir to discuss cooperation on counterterrorism and spreading a more moderate brand of Islam.

They also discussed ways the two countries can work together to support the Palestinian cause.

"As we know, the future of Palestine is becoming more unclear and it is the duty of Saudi Arabia and Indonesia to continue improving cooperation and to support the Palestinian cause," Retno said.

https://jakartaglobe.id/context/indonesia-saudi-arabia-agree-to-further-strengthen-ties

What I love about Indonesia and South East Asia as a whole and other Shafi'i dominated strongholds is that there is no tolerance or room for a certain very harmful trojan horse sect within their society. Certain small parts of the Arab world should have learned that lesson before getting infected and turning into ******** (unfortunately) areas.

@Indos



Let us not forget the significant community of naturalized Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin in Hijaz. One of the largest minority groups in KSA and one of the largest Indonesian diasporas in the world. Indonesia does not have such ties with any other country in the MENA hence the historically very close and warm ties people to people. Now reflected by both governments.

Yeah I still remember when King Salman came to Indonesia, all Indonesian news TV has a live broadcast for a whole day. There is no such thing happen with other country leader coming.

I think the collaboration between Indonesia and Saudi should be joint venture in refinery and chemical. Actually Saudi proposal has already been sent and right know is under Indonesian study. The investment from both Pertamina (Indonesian state owned oil company) and Aramco could be huge inshaAllah and can slash significantly our oil product import from Singapore.

Indonesia not only Shafii strong hold bro but also large portion of it is also Wahhabi influenced. The modernist Islam follower in Indonesia is influenced by Wahhabi and traditional Islam follower is Shafii influenced. Indonesian election last April is a show chase of such divide where Islam traditional follower tend to vote Jokowi and Modernist Islam tend to vote Prabowo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modernism_(Islam_in_Indonesia)
 
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Yeah I still remember when King Salman came to Indonesia, all Indonesian news TV has a live broadcast for a whole day. There is no such thing happen with other country leader coming.

I think the collaboration between Indonesia and Saudi should be joint venture in refinery and chemical. Actually Saudi proposal has already been sent and right know is under Indonesian study. The investment from both Pertamina (Indonesian state owned oil company) and Aramco could be huge inshaAllah and can slash significantly our oil product import from Singapore.

Indonesia not only Shafii strong hold bro but also large portion of it is also Wahhabi influenced. The modernist Islam follower in Indonesia is influenced by Wahhabi and traditional Islam follower is Shafii influenced. Indonesian election last April is a show chase of such divide where Islam traditional follower tend to vote Jokowi and Modernist Islam tend to vote Prabowo.

Actually it was widely covered inside KSA as well and even the wider Arab world. Many Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin were in particular happy and appeared in media and were active on social media during and just after the visit to highlight the close historical ties and the need to enhance the ties and open new chapters in the relations into other fields than just the traditional fields of cooperation.

The petrochemical sector is one of the largest sectors in the world so that is an obvious choice. However the relationship should also extend to religious, cultural areas, which is already the case actually to a large extend, but also cover fields like agriculture, education, science, military cooperation (as became the case as late as April this year when those deals where signed when President Jokowi visited KSA. That and obviously business. KSA and Indonesia are both the two largest Muslim economies and members of the G-20. There is a lot of potential to further improve trade ties overall.

I am not a big fan of the word "Wahhabi" as this is a new invention and defined by people who are not Hanbalis. Actually so-called "Wahhabis" in KSA are just traditional orthodox Hanbalis. Mostly confined to Najd. As you know every madahib (Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki, Hanafi, Sufism) and sect (Shia - Zaydi, Twelver, Ismaili) is present indigenously inside the various historical regions of KSA (Hijaz, Najd, Eastern Arabia, South, Northern Arabia etc.)

Although I am from a Shafi'i family, the differences (at least between Sunnis) are minimal.

In KSA the only divide among Sunni Muslims is political. For instance system of governance. Monarchy governing by Islam with the help of an influential clergy or elected system influenced by Islam. This is also where various Islamist political groups enter the picture. In the Arab world (so far although not very successful) the MB and its branches are most numerous but there are many other too. So a bit complicated.

Then there are reformists vs traditionalists but people are united about the fundamentals since 85% of the population are Sunni Muslims. 5% of the Shias (Zaydis) are very close to Sunni islam too so no problem there either. Twelver's (some 10%) and the small Ismailis (2% or less) are quite different sects but they are peaceful and not adopting idiotic ideologies like the 40 year old Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih ideology for instance.
 
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Actually it was widely covered inside KSA as well and even the wider Arab world. Many Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin were in particular happy and appeared in media and were active on social media during and just after the visit to highlight the close historical ties and the need to enhance the ties and open new chapters in the relations into other fields than just the traditional fields of cooperation.

The petrochemical sector is one of the largest sectors in the world so that is an obvious choice. However the relationship should also extend to religious, cultural areas, which is already the case actually to a large extend, but also cover fields like agriculture, education, science, military cooperation (as became the case as late as April this year when those deals where signed when President Jokowi visited KSA. That and obviously business. KSA and Indonesia are both the two largest Muslim economies and members of the G-20. There is a lot of potential to further improve trade ties overall.

I am not a big fan of the word "Wahhabi" as this is a new invention and defined by people who are not Hanbalis. Actually so-called "Wahhabis" in KSA are just traditional orthodox Hanbalis. Mostly confined to Najd. As you know every madahib (Shafi'i, Hanbali, Maliki, Hanafi, Sufism) and sect (Shia - Zaydi, Twelver, Ismaili) is present indigenously inside the various historical regions of KSA (Hijaz, Najd, Eastern Arabia, South, Northern Arabia etc.)

Although I am from a Shafi'i family, the differences (at least between Sunnis) are minimal.

In KSA the only divide among Sunni Muslims is political. For instance system of governance. Monarchy governing by Islam with the help of an influential clergy or elected system influenced by Islam. This is also where various Islamist political groups enter the picture. In the Arab world (so far although not very successful) the MB and its branches are most numerous but there are many other too. So a bit complicated.

Then there are reformists vs traditionalists but people are united about the fundamentals since 85% of the population are Sunni Muslims. 5% of the Shias (Zaydis) are very close to Sunni islam too so no problem there either. Twelver's (some 10%) and the small Ismailis (2% or less) are quite different sects but they are peaceful and not adopting idiotic ideologies like the 40 year old Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih ideology for instance.

Islam modernist in Indonesia also tends to have Islamist agenda while Islam Traditionalist (particularly those who are concentrated in Central Java and East Java) tend to accept Nationalist agenda by siding with Nationalist biggest party since 2004 (They become part of Islamist coalition in 1999 is also due to the fact that Islam Modernist are agree to put his leader (Abdurrahman Wahid) as President (read:bargaining). This is why there are more cooperation happening with other Muslim country during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono administration 2009-2014 compared Joko Widodo administration. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is backed by Islamist in Indonesia and also is in similar coalition with Islamist in 2014 and 2019 election (Prabowo camp). Indonesia and Saudi defense cooperation agreement was also sign during Susilo administration. Unfortunately there is no meaningful defense cooperation happening between two nation during Jokowi administration although in term of economic relation there is huge potential particularly in petrochemical sector.

Actually the cooperation in education is mostly done in religious study but I heard news saying that there is plan from Indonesia to improve cooperation in education with other Muslim countries in non religious study.

In term of some division in Islam I rather sit in the center and will absorb anything from any sect that is backed by strong reason and religious basis, it is like how I am who identified myself as Islam Modernist follower (Muhammadiyah organisation) but still can accept traditional Islam view like in Sufism and other. My favorite Islam preacher is Mufti Menk though and also Quraish Shihab who is an Arab Indonesian. Quraish Shihab has also written a 30 juz Quran interpretation (Tafsir) called Al Misbah, I hope his work in tafsir can also be read by other Muslim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_Al-Mishbah

Tafsîr al-Mishbâh is the monumental work of tafsir by an Indonesian Islamic scholar, Muhammad Quraish Shihab. Published by Lentera Hati in 2001, Tafsir al-Mishbah is the first complete 30 Juz interpretation of the Qur'an in the last 30 years. The tafsir is aimed at interpretation of the Qur'an in relations to contemporary issues

Quraish Shihab with his daugther Najwa Shihab

Oya bro, according to you how many are Shafii follower in Saudi left, I bet Hambali follower is the majority there. And How many Hijazi who still follow Shafii ? Can you see Tasawuf books on Saudi bookstore? Thanks in advance.
 
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There is nothing like that. The old Arab immigrants dissolved and then adopted local cultures in provinces where they belongs to. The only thing that can distinguish them physically is their huge nose and hairyness, also their "towelheads" style. Tbh it's hard differentiate between Arab and Indian as all of them look the same. If there are any of them cultures left, then I'll be seeing this belly dance every weekend. Haha


The Arab village that the goy mentioned is FAR from the culturally Arab that you can thought of. It's a backward place and almost close to becoming a slum.

http://suzannita.com/napak-tilas-kampung-arab-al-munawar/

There is one arabies infested holiday place in puncak Bogor. It was a very nice place before arabies infestation bringing in prostitutes both from their homeland and even localized Arab women. There are news about it although its in bahasa Indonesia


Today the place is in package along with afgan refugees we took in. Hopefully the afgans can teach those Arabs how to be a decent human, although I very much doubt that....

I heard the Arab Indonesians don't even marry outside of them. How did they have Indonesian like features in their face if they never marry outside?
 
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Islam modernist in Indonesia also tends to have Islamist agenda while Islam Traditionalist (particularly those who are concentrated in Central Java and East Java) tend to accept Nationalist agenda by siding with Nationalist biggest party since 2004 (They become part of Islamist coalition in 1999 is also due to the fact that Islam Modernist are agree to put his leader (Abdurrahman Wahid) as President (read:bargaining). This is why there are more cooperation happening with other Muslim country during Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono administration 2009-2014 compared Joko Widodo administration. Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono is backed by Islamist in Indonesia and also is in similar coalition with Islamist in 2014 and 2019 election (Prabowo camp). Indonesia and Saudi defense cooperation agreement was also sign during Susilo administration. Unfortunately there is no meaningful defense cooperation happening between two nation during Jokowi administration although in term of economic relation there is huge potential particularly in petrochemical sector.

Actually the cooperation in education is mostly done in religious study but I heard news saying that there is plan from Indonesia to improve cooperation in education with other Muslim countries in non religious study.

In term of some division in Islam I rather sit in the center and will absorb anything from any sect that is backed by strong reason and religious basis, it is like how I am who identified myself as Islam Modernist follower (Muhammadiyah organisation) but still can accept traditional Islam view like in Sufism and other. My favorite Islam preacher is Mufti Menk though and also Quraish Shihab who is an Arab Indonesian. Quraish Shihab has also written a 30 juz Quran interpretation (Tafsir) called Al Misbah, I hope his work in tafsir can also be read by other Muslim.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tafsir_Al-Mishbah

Tafsîr al-Mishbâh is the monumental work of tafsir by an Indonesian Islamic scholar, Muhammad Quraish Shihab. Published by Lentera Hati in 2001, Tafsir al-Mishbah is the first complete 30 Juz interpretation of the Qur'an in the last 30 years. The tafsir is aimed at interpretation of the Qur'an in relations to contemporary issues


Oya bro, according to you how many are Shafii follower in Saudi left, I bet Hambali follower is the majority there. And How many Hijazi who still follow Shafii ? Can you see Tasawuf books on Saudi bookstore? Thanks in advance.

Thank you brother for another informative posts and for all the details. I am aware of the political changes after 1998 and some of the dynamics afterwards but obviously not fully and nowhere near close to a local.

This dynamic is actually interesting and it seems like due to the homogeneity of the Muslim community in Indonesia (much like in KSA) that both parties can tolerate each other. Not really strange when we are talking about the same sect and thus socio-cultural/political viewpoints by large.

I forgot to mention that this article in Jakarta Globe Newspaper from April this year also talks about tourism and counterterrorism cooperation. As well as increasing the number of Indonesian Hajj pilgrims.

https://jakartaglobe.id/context/indonesia-saudi-arabia-agree-to-further-strengthen-ties

Yes, the DCA between the two countries was signed back in 2014 but according to the article (other) that I posted earlier was being formalized last year.


"Last week, the formalization of defense ties took another procedural step forward with the formal legislative approval of the Indonesia-Saudi Arabia DCA. The move was formally and publicly announced on October 2 following weeks of prior discussions leading up to that.

Speaking to the significance of the move, Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said the step represented progress for the development of a legal umbrella on top of defense ties, and expressed his gratitude for various parties for facilitating its development."

https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/new-pact-puts-indonesia-saudi-arabia-military-ties-in-the-spotlight/
That is exactly like me.:D I appreciate the diversity within KSA, the Muslim and Arab world and have no problem with the various madahib in existence. So as a Shafi'i I have no problem with Hanbalis ("Wahhabis") nor with Sufis. To put it otherwise I do not look at things (in this regard) in black and white and appreciate elements of Sufism (the spiritual element for instance not so much the many misguided practices of some Sufis IMO) and the orthodoxy of Shafi'is, Hanbalis etc. and their focus on not deviating from the path. Appreciate the knowledge of many more orthodox scholars as well.

I have heard about Quraish Shihab and his works have reached the Arab world. If you take a look at his Wikipedia page you can even see that he has a profile page in Arabic. The only other language outside of Bahasa.

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/محمد_قريش_شهاب

Yes, you can and the works of Imam Shafi'i (ra) and other great scholars of Islam are openly available and studied.

Even though the official madhhab of the Saudi Arabian state is the Hanbali madhhab and this is what the state clergy follows by large (although there are fractions as well and many scholars outside of the official clergy, in fact more are are outside) all the traditional schools and their works are open to study and dwell into. Hanbali being the youngest of the 4 traditional madahib all 3 other are taught naturally. However obviously there is more emphasis on Hanbali scholars (traditional, recent or modern).

But Shia's etc. remain Shia's and keep their own traditions alive and they have their own scholars, mosques etc.

You can say that there has been a "Hanbali monopoly" publicly despite the people belonging to various traditional madahib as explained depending on the region and that has obviously had an influence on Hanbalism spreading all across KSA. With the rapid urbanization and population growth and thus population movements traditional areas of x or y madhhab have become mixed. The countryside however is mostly what it always was so in the deep South you will find Zaydis, Ismailis etc.

BTW, correct me if I am wrong here, but my feeling in Indonesia (like in any modern-day Muslim country) is that people (especially the new generation of Muslims) are not really following their madhhab blindly with the extensive knowledge and mixing of information that takes place.

As you wrote, even though Indonesia is traditionally Shafi'i, "modernist Islamists" (Hanbalis/Orthodox Muslims not focused on 1 particular madhhab) are probably almost half of the population nowadays and probably gaining more foothold due to being more politically active. Maybe I am wrong here?

Sorry for the long post brother. I have to log out for now so take care.

I heard the Arab Indonesians don't even marry outside of them. How did they have Indonesian like features in their face if they never marry outside?

That is not correct. Arabs have been settling in Indonesia since almost 1 millennia ago. Some sources say actually before Islam. There is evidence of people from the Arab world trading with what is today Indonesia over 2000 years ago. So the old Arab migration are all mixed today and have by large been absorbed into the local ethnic groups depending on the area of Indonesia, say Java or Sumatra or elsewhere.

The more newer migration form mainly Yemen and Hijaz have also mixed. Some less than others. But all of them consider themselves to be Indonesian first and foremost. Just like the Indonesian diaspora in KSA. Some arrived long before modern-day KSA existed and some arrived just after and became naturalized also. Others came just a ew years/decades ago and are thus not citizens.


Arabs have always mixed wherever they settled be it Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa, Horn of Africa, Sahel, Swahili Coastline, Central Asia, Caucasus, South Asia etc. In other words areas where Arabs were a minority. So while they kept their culture by large, language, heritage (lineage, surnames) they intermarried due to staying and due to living in those regions of the world for so long. 1000+ years in most of those places. Sometimes even before Islam.

@Indos can explain more.
 
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Thank you brother for another informative posts and for all the details. I am aware of the political changes after 1998 and some of the dynamics afterwards but obviously not fully and nowhere near close to a local.

This dynamic is actually interesting and it seems like due to the homogeneity of the Muslim community in Indonesia (much like in KSA) that both parties can tolerate each other. Not really strange when we are talking about the same sect and thus socio-cultural/political viewpoints by large.

I forgot to mention that this article in Jakarta Globe Newspaper from April this year also talks about tourism and counterterrorism cooperation. As well as increasing the number of Indonesian Hajj pilgrims.

https://jakartaglobe.id/context/indonesia-saudi-arabia-agree-to-further-strengthen-ties

Yes, the DCA between the two countries was signed back in 2014 but according to the article (other) that I posted earlier was being formalized last year.


"Last week, the formalization of defense ties took another procedural step forward with the formal legislative approval of the Indonesia-Saudi Arabia DCA. The move was formally and publicly announced on October 2 following weeks of prior discussions leading up to that.

Speaking to the significance of the move, Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said the step represented progress for the development of a legal umbrella on top of defense ties, and expressed his gratitude for various parties for facilitating its development."

https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/new-pact-puts-indonesia-saudi-arabia-military-ties-in-the-spotlight/
That is exactly like me.:D I appreciate the diversity within KSA, the Muslim and Arab world and have no problem with the various madahib in existence. So as a Shafi'i I have no problem with Hanbalis ("Wahhabis") nor with Sufis. To put it otherwise I do not look at things (in this regard) in black and white and appreciate elements of Sufism (the spiritual element for instance not so much the many misguided practices of some Sufis IMO) and the orthodoxy of Shafi'is, Hanbalis etc. and their focus on not deviating from the path. Appreciate the knowledge of many more orthodox scholars as well.

I have heard about Quraish Shihab and his works have reached the Arab world. If you take a look at his Wikipedia page you can even see that he has a profile page in Arabic. The only other language outside of Bahasa.

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/محمد_قريش_شهاب

Yes, you can and the works of Imam Shafi'i (ra) and other great scholars of Islam are openly available and studied.

Even though the official madhhab of the Saudi Arabian state is the Hanbali madhhab and this is what the state clergy follows by large (although there are fractions as well and many scholars outside of the official clergy, in fact more are are outside) all the traditional schools and their works are open to study and dwell into. Hanbali being the youngest of the 4 traditional madahib all 3 other are taught naturally. However obviously there is more emphasis on Hanbali scholars (traditional, recent or modern).

But Shia's etc. remain Shia's and keep their own traditions alive and they have their own scholars, mosques etc.

You can say that there has been a "Hanbali monopoly" publicly despite the people belonging to various traditional madahib as explained depending on the region and that has obviously had an influence on Hanbalism spreading all across KSA. With the rapid urbanization and population growth and thus population movements traditional areas of x or y madhhab have become mixed. The countryside however is mostly what it always was so in the deep South you will find Zaydis, Ismailis etc.

BTW, correct me if I am wrong here, but my feeling in Indonesia (like in any modern-day Muslim country) is that people (especially the new generation of Muslims) are not really following their madhhab blindly with the extensive knowledge and mixing of information that takes place.

As you wrote, even though Indonesia is traditionally Shafi'i, "modernist Islamists" (Hanbalis/Orthodox Muslims not focused on 1 particular madhhab) are probably almost half of the population nowadays and probably gaining more foothold due to being more politically active. Maybe I am wrong here?

Sorry for the long post brother. I have to log out for now so take care.



That is not correct. Arabs have been settling in Indonesia since almost 1 millennia ago. So the old Arab migration are all mixed today and have by large been absorbed into the local ethnic groups depending on the area of Indonesia, say Java or Sumatra or elsewhere.

The more newer migration form mainly Yemen and Hijaz have also mixed. Some less than others. But all of them consider themselves to be Indonesian first and foremost. Just like the Indonesian diaspora in KSA. Some arrived long before modern-day KSA existed and some arrived just after and became naturalized also. Others came just a ew years/decades ago and are thus not citizens.


Arabs have always mixed wherever they settled be it Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa, Horn of Africa, Sahel, Swahili Coastline, Central Asia, Caucasus, South Asia etc. In other words areas where Arabs were a minority. So while they kept their culture by large, language, heritage (lineage, surnames) they intermarried due to staying and due to living in those regions of the world for so long. 1000+ years in most of those places. Sometimes even before Islam.

I heard what I said from Indonesian people I met. I met many Indonesians here in Aus in masjid. Let's see what other Indonesian members have to say about it.
 
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I heard what I said from Indonesian people I met. I met many Indonesians here in Aus in masjid. Let's see what other Indonesian members have to say about it.

My father lived in Indonesia as a child for 3 years during the late reign of Sukarno (Indonesia's first president) (attended an English school in Jakarta attended by children of the ruling elite, diplomats, foreigners (Muslim and non-Muslim) and simultaneously Islamic/Arabic studies, he picked up Bahasa as well but forgot it later on) so I am quite informed about Indonesia. We visited last year as well.

It is total nonsense because you can see that many Arab-Indonesians in Indonesia are mixed. As I wrote some are not but that is the more recent migration from Hijaz and Yemen and especially Sadah families who prefer to marry within. But the new generation are not doing that anymore.

A community with a recorded history of at least 1000 years (sources saying some Arabs did trade with people of Indonesia over 2000 years ago so before Islam too) in Indonesia has obviously mixed. Even the later (300-500 years ago) is also always mixed. More recent (150 years or so) some of them (as I wrote some Sadah families) have not mixed. But that will eventually not be possible to continue.

I once read that around 10% of Indonesians (on average) have Middle Eastern DNA which is obviously the Arab migration mostly.

BTW, I posted this video already but cannot you not see that this person speaking (Arab Indonesian) is mixed?


Not sure what Indonesians you have met in Australia but surprised to hear that they say that Arabs do not mix. Sounds very unlikely outside of the recent migration and mostly among them the Sadah families as I wrote.

Let me tell you that the Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin have also mixed with locals (almost all of them) nowadays. I think brother @Indos once told me that he has relatives that live in KSA of Indonesian origin who have married locals. It is natural for people after several generations to marry the majority ethnic group (s) of their new homeland. This has happened throughout history which is why ALL people are mixed.
 
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Thank you brother for another informative posts and for all the details. I am aware of the political changes after 1998 and some of the dynamics afterwards but obviously not fully and nowhere near close to a local.

This dynamic is actually interesting and it seems like due to the homogeneity of the Muslim community in Indonesia (much like in KSA) that both parties can tolerate each other. Not really strange when we are talking about the same sect and thus socio-cultural/political viewpoints by large.

I forgot to mention that this article in Jakarta Globe Newspaper from April this year also talks about tourism and counterterrorism cooperation. As well as increasing the number of Indonesian Hajj pilgrims.

https://jakartaglobe.id/context/indonesia-saudi-arabia-agree-to-further-strengthen-ties

Yes, the DCA between the two countries was signed back in 2014 but according to the article (other) that I posted earlier was being formalized last year.


"Last week, the formalization of defense ties took another procedural step forward with the formal legislative approval of the Indonesia-Saudi Arabia DCA. The move was formally and publicly announced on October 2 following weeks of prior discussions leading up to that.

Speaking to the significance of the move, Indonesian Defense Minister Ryamizard Ryacudu said the step represented progress for the development of a legal umbrella on top of defense ties, and expressed his gratitude for various parties for facilitating its development."

https://thediplomat.com/2018/10/new-pact-puts-indonesia-saudi-arabia-military-ties-in-the-spotlight/
That is exactly like me.:D I appreciate the diversity within KSA, the Muslim and Arab world and have no problem with the various madahib in existence. So as a Shafi'i I have no problem with Hanbalis ("Wahhabis") nor with Sufis. To put it otherwise I do not look at things (in this regard) in black and white and appreciate elements of Sufism (the spiritual element for instance not so much the many misguided practices of some Sufis IMO) and the orthodoxy of Shafi'is, Hanbalis etc. and their focus on not deviating from the path. Appreciate the knowledge of many more orthodox scholars as well.

I have heard about Quraish Shihab and his works have reached the Arab world. If you take a look at his Wikipedia page you can even see that he has a profile page in Arabic. The only other language outside of Bahasa.

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/محمد_قريش_شهاب

Yes, you can and the works of Imam Shafi'i (ra) and other great scholars of Islam are openly available and studied.

Even though the official madhhab of the Saudi Arabian state is the Hanbali madhhab and this is what the state clergy follows by large (although there are fractions as well and many scholars outside of the official clergy, in fact more are are outside) all the traditional schools and their works are open to study and dwell into. Hanbali being the youngest of the 4 traditional madahib all 3 other are taught naturally. However obviously there is more emphasis on Hanbali scholars (traditional, recent or modern).

But Shia's etc. remain Shia's and keep their own traditions alive and they have their own scholars, mosques etc.

You can say that there has been a "Hanbali monopoly" publicly despite the people belonging to various traditional madahib as explained depending on the region and that has obviously had an influence on Hanbalism spreading all across KSA. With the rapid urbanization and population growth and thus population movements traditional areas of x or y madhhab have become mixed. The countryside however is mostly what it always was so in the deep South you will find Zaydis, Ismailis etc.

BTW, correct me if I am wrong here, but my feeling in Indonesia (like in any modern-day Muslim country) is that people (especially the new generation of Muslims) are not really following their madhhab blindly with the extensive knowledge and mixing of information that takes place.

As you wrote, even though Indonesia is traditionally Shafi'i, "modernist Islamists" (Hanbalis/Orthodox Muslims not focused on 1 particular madhhab) are probably almost half of the population nowadays and probably gaining more foothold due to being more politically active. Maybe I am wrong here?

Sorry for the long post brother. I have to log out for now so take care.



That is not correct. Arabs have been settling in Indonesia since almost 1 millennia ago. Some sources say actually before Islam. There is evidence of people from the Arab world trading with what is today Indonesia over 2000 years ago. So the old Arab migration are all mixed today and have by large been absorbed into the local ethnic groups depending on the area of Indonesia, say Java or Sumatra or elsewhere.

The more newer migration form mainly Yemen and Hijaz have also mixed. Some less than others. But all of them consider themselves to be Indonesian first and foremost. Just like the Indonesian diaspora in KSA. Some arrived long before modern-day KSA existed and some arrived just after and became naturalized also. Others came just a ew years/decades ago and are thus not citizens.


Arabs have always mixed wherever they settled be it Latin America, Sub-Saharan Africa, Horn of Africa, Sahel, Swahili Coastline, Central Asia, Caucasus, South Asia etc. In other words areas where Arabs were a minority. So while they kept their culture by large, language, heritage (lineage, surnames) they intermarried due to staying and due to living in those regions of the world for so long. 1000+ years in most of those places. Sometimes even before Islam.

@Indos can explain more.
Really informative posts with some great personal insight. I shall discuss more on the subject with yourself soon, in sha Allah.
 
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My father lived in Indonesia as a child for 3 years during the late reign of Sukarno (Indonesia's first president) (attended an English school in Jakarta attended by children of the ruling elite, diplomats, foreigners (Muslim and non-Muslim) and simultaneously Islamic/Arabic studies, he picked up Bahasa as well but forgot it later on) so I am quite informed about Indonesia. We visited last year as well.

It is total nonsense because you can see that many Arab-Indonesians in Indonesia are mixed. As I wrote some are not but that is the more recent migration from Hijaz and Yemen and especially Sadah families who prefer to marry within. But the new generation are not doing that anymore.

A community with a recorded history of at least 1000 years (sources saying some Arabs did trade with people of Indonesia over 2000 years ago so before Islam too) in Indonesia has obviously mixed. Even the later (300-500 years ago) is also always mixed. More recent (150 years or so) some of them (as I wrote some Sadah families) have not mixed. But that will eventually not be possible to continue.

I once read that around 10% of Indonesians (on average) have Middle Eastern DNA which is obviously the Arab migration mostly.

BTW, I posted this video already but cannot you not see that this person speaking (Arab Indonesian) is mixed?


Not sure what Indonesians you have met in Australia but surprised to hear that they say that Arabs do not mix. Sounds very unlikely outside of the recent migration and mostly among them the Sadah families as I wrote.

Let me tell you that the Saudi Arabians of Indonesian origin have also mixed with locals (almost all of them) nowadays. I think brother @Indos once told me that he has relatives that live in KSA of Indonesian origin who have married locals. It is natural for people after several generations to marry the majority ethnic group (s) of their new homeland. This has happened throughout history which is why ALL people are mixed.

I am just asking for my knowledge since I have heard that from Indonesians and they did seem to have disdain about it. But that maybe some people and may not be all Indonesians.

However, the truth may as well be somewhere in the middle. It's only logical that if a people live in a land for about thousand years then they would mix with the locals, so form that perspective I get what you are saying. But then there is the other well known tendency/custom of Arabs of not marrying outside of Arabs specially they don't marry Arab women to outsiders because of the Islamic belief that lineage comes from father's side and this is inline with the pre-Islamic Arab traditions too. So what I heard from those Indonesians is not entirely unheard of or inconceivable. In any case, Indonesia is a beautiful country and prospering rapidly and in the entire Islamic world I like the Indonesian and Malaysian people the most. As long as they are happy with all their multiculturalism and progressing inclusively, I am happy.
 
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I heard the Arab Indonesians don't even marry outside of them. How did they have Indonesian like features in their face if they never marry outside?

Arab did marry with local but some of them prefer other Arabs so that you can still see many Arab Indonesian still look Arab. The ones that marries local become native and has a mixed face.

Arab coming to Indonesia has been recorded since even during early Islam and very old Arab cemetery are found particularly in Sumatra island, the old coming has already been assimilated and has become native nowadays. As you know Indonesia, particularly Sumatra people sits near Malaca strait which has already become a trade route between Arab, India, and China. We also have people who look like Indian (South Asia) and particularly China despite being native.

Arab Indonesian who still have Arab face comes from recent coming. I dont think Arab are so exclusive, even my cousin married a pretty Arab National (Arab race) in Saudi.

This Fahry Albar, Indonesian actor, he is a mixed between Arab Indonesian father and Indonesian native mother. He also marries Indonesian native despite there are many pretty Arab Indonesian here in Indonesia

untitled-5-c5ff9ac6cd688e739d29c2aab44913de_600x400.jpg
 
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I am just asking for my knowledge since I have heard that from Indonesians and they did seem to have disdain about it. But that maybe some people and may not be all Indonesians.

However, the truth may as well be somewhere in the middle. It's only logical that if a people live in a land for about thousand years then they would mix with the locals, so form that perspective I get what you are saying. But then there is the other well known tendency/custom of Arabs of not marrying outside of Arabs specially they don't marry Arab women to outsiders because of the Islamic belief that lineage comes from father's side and this is inline with the pre-Islamic Arab traditions too. So what I heard from those Indonesians is not entirely unheard of or inconceivable. In any case, Indonesia is a beautiful country and prospering rapidly and in the entire Islamic world I like the Indonesian and Malaysian people the most. As long as they are happy with all their multiculturalism and progressing inclusively, I am happy.

Well, you are entitled to that. I just wrote what I know.

I just told you that Arabs outside of the Arab world whether it is Latin America where some 30 million (!) people have Arab ancestry (paternal, full or mixed), Sub-Saharan Africa, Swahili Coastline, Sahel, South Asia, South East Asia, Caucasus, Central Asia, (heck even Afghanistan, Arabs are one of the recognized ethnic groups of that country but have been absorbed in to the local population which is why some Pashtun, Tajik etc. tribes claim Arab ancestry, only a few genuine Arab speaking villages in Northern Afghanistan) have intermarried with locals due to the very long settlement of Arabs in those regions often predating Islam. So naturally for the first generations intermarriages were the norm but the longer you live in a certain place the more you will intermarry with locals eventually. Time will do that.

Arabs married local women wherever Arabs lived (that is why you can find so many Southern Europeans having Arab/Semitic Y-DNA and ancestry in places like Spain, Portugal, Sicily, Malta, Crete, Cyprus, Southern Italy etc.). Women is another question but even Arab women could and married with foreigners. Come on.

Yes, lineage was and is based on from father to father like in most cultures.

Yes it is and I wish them the best and one of the biggest fans of Indonesia and South East Asia even without the religious or close bonds with Arabs.

BTW it is so funny to see how "bin" (son of) or "bint" (daughter of) has been adopted by Malay, Indonesian etc. ethnic groups as well. As a side note.

Arab did marry with local but some of them prefer other Arabs so that you can still see many Arab Indonesian still look Arab. The ones that marries local become native and has a mixed face.

Arab coming to Indonesia has been recorded since even during early Islam and very old Arab cemetery are found particularly in Sumatra island, the old coming has already been assimilated and has become native nowadays. As you know Indonesia, particularly Sumatra people sits near Malaca strait which has already become a trade route between Arab, India, and China. We also have people who look like Indian (South Asia) and particularly China despite being native.

Arab Indonesian who still have Arab face comes from recent coming. I dont think Arab are so exclusive, even my cousin married a pretty Arab National (Arab race) in Saudi.

This Fahry Albar, Indonesian actor, he is a mixed between Arab Indonesian father and Indonesian native mother. He also marries Indonesian native despite there are many pretty Arab Indonesian here in Indonesia

untitled-5-c5ff9ac6cd688e739d29c2aab44913de_600x400.jpg

Genetics are a remarkable thing. Some half Arab-Indonesians look very local while other mixtures look very Arab, lol. Take that actor as an example. Would not think that he was half Indonesian at all although I know that there are many different ethnic groups in Indonesia.
 
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