Arabs (Hijazis and Yemenis mainly) in Indonesia (Arab-Indonesians - 5 million + population)

[Indos]

If you could describe what the main difference between the Islamist-Nationalists faction and the Secular Nationalist faction is on topics such as healthcare, education, crime, infrastructure and foreign policy what would it be? Even though Indonesia is currently dominated/ruled by the secular nationalist front, it has not harmed (at all) Indonesia's relationship with Muslim countries, so I believe that regardless of who rules Indonesia, Indonesia will continue reaching out to Muslim countries as well as strengthened the economic, military, people-to-people and business ties with the Arab world. At least I firmly hope so.

Actually Islamist-Nationalist faction and Secular Nationalist faction in Indonesia are not like Liberal vs Conservative in USA politics or Socialist (Labour) vs Conservative in Britain politics.

Indonesian public (majority) has proven to hate many liberal ideas like LGBT, abortion, free sex, and liberal economics policy like privatization of state owned companies.

Economics Policy

Megawati (PDI-P-secular nationalist) has believed with liberal economics policy and has privatized many state owned companies during her administration (2002-2004) and sell of one important state owned telecommunication company, Indosat, to Temasek (Singapore). In the past, our state owned communication companies, Telkom and Indosat dominate the telecommunication sector that make duopoly in the sector. This policy make her lost in two elections with big margin from Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono (SBY) that is supported by Islamist-Nationalist Religious parties. Since that time, no politician ever dare talk about liberal economic ideas, and it make both factions are similar in this grand economic policy.

I think Indonesian people favor government to maintain our big state owned companies contribution on the economy and even want them to grow even bigger due to our education. This started since Soeharto period who teach our kid in school to hate extrime idea like liberalism and socialism and teach them to believe with "middle way" and it includes mixed economy lesson. Honestly this "middle way" is also a wisdom who are taught by Islam in Quran. Personally I also believe with it and glad that our education teach us like that.

The difference between Islamist-Nationalist Religious vs Secular Nationalist in term of their economic policy is more on their current leader belief and strategy. From I see Islamist-Nationalist Religious coalition policy during its rule in 2004-2014 and its campaign during latest election show populist idea like big subsidy, labor law with favor labor and universal highly subsidized health care system.

Jokowi made the opposite and currently working to make pro business labor law. As I see this as a more rational policy compared to populist agenda, I voted for Jokowi two times. I put aside other Jokowi policy that I dont like due to his secular tendency because I see economic policy as very crucial for our nation development, regardless my preference on political Islam movement.

Education

Naturally Muhammadiyah (second largest Muslim organization with modernist idea) always put his men as Indonesian Education Minister since we embrace democracy. Muhammadiyah always neutral in every election although its organization and follower are almost all pro Islamist agenda. On the other hand NU (largest Muslim organization with traditionalist idea) always put his men as Minister of Religion.

Only in this second term Jokowi administration he put Nadiem Makariem as Minister of Education. IMO he is a secular nationalist person by seeing he married with Christian woman and let his kid get baptized in Church while keep maintaining Islam as his religion. He is put by Jokowi to revolunize the institution. Jokowi also put former Armed Force general as Minister of Religion, some thing which is widely seen as the move to curb Islamist agenda in the ministry. Those are surprised move by him after being elected for the second time. He doesnt dare to do it in the first term because afraid to get backlash in the next election. He is nothing to lose now since it is his last term in office and has perfectly hide this idea during his campaign.

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I will discuss foreign policy later and will explain you why this secular nationalist administration still produce many policy that is pro Islamist agenda despite being secular in nature.

 

[Indos]

If you could describe what the main difference between the Islamist-Nationalists faction and the Secular Nationalist faction is on topics such as healthcare, education, crime, infrastructure and foreign policy what would it be? Even though Indonesia is currently dominated/ruled by the secular nationalist front, it has not harmed (at all) Indonesia's relationship with Muslim countries, so I believe that regardless of who rules Indonesia, Indonesia will continue reaching out to Muslim countries as well as strengthened the economic, military, people-to-people and business ties with the Arab world. At least I firmly hope so.

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Actually the division that I made about Indonesia politics is just a simplification. Because the Secular Nationalist faction is also supported by Islam traditionalist that is represented by Nahdatul Ulama (NU) as the social and religious organization with its political wing PKB party. I hope you remember my previous explanation about Islam modernist and Islam traditionalist divide in Indonesia.

Islam modernist which is Muhammadiyah whose teaching quite similar like Ibnu Taimiyah and Wahabism but with modernist idea like modern education with make Muhammadiyah have so many primary schools (kindergardent/elementary/junior and high school) and universities across Indonesia, including many hospitals. Muhammadiyah respected Ulama is also not treated like saints that make people have to kiss their hands just like what NU people do to their respected Ulama. NU is more like old Islam before Ibnu Taimiyah movement and practice and teach Tasawuf as well.

NU is somewhat close with PDIP (main secular nationalist party) and has more tolerance attitude with Non Muslim. They are close with PDIP since Reformation period maybe due to the influence of Gusdur who has liberal and secular point of view. While Muhammadiyah (Islam Modernist) carry Islamist banner.

Actually Islam Modernist are not only Muhammadiyah, but other movement like PKS party who carry Muslim Brotherhood idea and Islam Traditionalist follower from outside Java like Sumatra and Madura who are not part of NU. NU follower are concentrated in Central Java and East Java, the two most populated region in Indonesia. New Wahhabi (sory I said it like that since you dont like it) movement and Salafist with link to Saudi are also among this coalition according to my analyst since they have strong Islamist sentiment although Salafist doesnt do any demonstration.

Secular Nationalist (PDI-P) who are supported by Nationalist follower and Non Muslim who concentrated in Central and East Java cannot force its secular agenda that was prevalence among their leaders bluntly. It is because NU are among the biggest contributor of the coalition and they are still following Islam and love their religion.

Beside that many Nationalist follower are also Muslim and practice their religion. And with the fact that Javanese (main voters of PDI-P) are also becoming more Islamic for time to time, it is difficult to go against Islamist agenda like the policy regarding Israel and Palestine. Any way Jokowi himself is a Muslim.

Foreign Policy

In term of foreign policy, you can see how he treat your king which come form an Islamic country. Indonesia is also brave enough to criticize China in front of their foreign minister directly and also called their Indonesian ambassador two time in relation with Uigyur community. Indonesia also focus its time in security council for Palestine and said publicly to please Indonesian people. Jokowi also comes to Pakistan and Bagladesh, two big Muslim countries and in Pakistan parliament he talked about the need to strengthen Muslim Brotherhood (not MB organization in Egypt) and help Palestinian. Afghanistan peace process is also another thing that Jokowi try to contribute and Taliban leader also has mention Indonesia contribution when they sign historic deal with USA.

Actually you are right that there will be not many different between these two opposing group in relation with their foreign policy if they will be in power. But Islamist-Nationalist Religious coalition will be more serious in making cooperation between Muslim nations just like how previous government make strategic defense relation with Turkey, Pakistan, and Saudi that is now still continued. And there is bigger chance for this Islamist-Nationalist Religious administration to contribute troops and join in any military coalition with any Muslim nation or even make Military pact.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

@Indos

I was away for 1 week and I rarely visit PDF nowadays aside from during my "writing sprees" brother. When I do visit, I usually miss all the mentions. Apologies. If I could give you a positive rating for those excellent posts, I would. Such posts are the reasons why I still stick around here.

 

[Indos]

@Indos

I was away for 1 week and I rarely visit PDF nowadays aside from during my "writing sprees" brother. When I do visit, I usually miss all the mentions. Apologies. If I could give you a positive rating for those excellent posts, I would. Such posts are the reasons why I still stick around here.

Dont worry bro, and thank you for the complement. I also see many of your posts showing good analysis and I also learn from them too.

I like to write as well to maintain and improve my English writing skill. Maybe later I want to make a special thread about Indonesia and its Islamist movement and can use many of my writing here for that special thread. I think many non Indonesian still dont have good understanding about our politics and even many Western journalist IMO are among them. So I guess it is good to make thread about it in this popular forum to clarify many misconceptions.

For your other questions, I will try to answer them later, inshaAllah, since I like to make it a thorough explanation and will need some free time to write them.

 

[Indos]

Lastly, I am curious about this, is there a regional/ethnic rivalry in Indonesia between for instance Sumatra and Java and the various ethnic groups in Indonesia and is that reflected in the political system and among voters?

BTW how accurate is this video?

Well, I see no regional/ethnic rivalry in Indonesia. There was some clash of course in Kalimantan between Dayak ethnic and Madurese ethnic in Kalimantan during 1990's and in Ambon in late 90's-early 2000 due to religious divide between Muslim and Christian. But those conflict have been resolved.

As long as Sumatran, Sundanese (Western Java), and Javanese (Central and East Java) can live in harmony I dont see any big problem for Indonesia as a whole as these three people who are the main force of Indonesia and together they represent 3/4 Indonesian people with almost all industries and political leaders are there.

These Sumatra and Java island are also the main backbone during the independence war with Sumatra has PETA force with 150.000 soldiers and Java island (Sundanese+Javanese) with 250.000 soldiers. PETA is a force created by Japan that later become the backbone to fight Dutch after Japan surrendered to Allied nations. All main political leader also comes from these region.

Jakarta role
They are all (elites and business owners) then living together in Jakarta and marry to each other. Jakarta can be regarded as a place for elites from these region to unite and to get along. For instant, my best friends are Javanese, Sundanese, and Sumatran (Minang/Batak ethnic). Just like happening in Greece with its Athena, Jakartan are seen as elite people in the Republic and influence the whole republic with their culture since all popular TV are in Jakarta. When Javanese living in Jakarta come back to their home town, they will be regarded as Jakartan by their own people. Similar thing happen with another ethnic.

Islam role
Islam is the main driving force for unity in Indonesia, particularly among Muslim. So the political situation is also like happening in Pakistan. Even Indonesia Chinese Muslim Association doesnt support Ahok, Chinese ethnic governor, when Jakarta election become a rivalry between secular nationalist/non Muslim and Nationalist religious/Islamist.

The first movement and organization in Indonesia with the nationalist agenda is also a Muslim organization called Syarikat Islam. Many analyst said it is the starting point from Indonesia to get independence because many political leaders comes from this organization, including Soekarno (Nationalist), Muhammad Natsir (Islamist), Semaun (Socialist)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarekat_Islam

Decentralization
In order to avoid Java Centrist, after we embrace democracy in 1998, we also change our governing system from centralist into decentralization and do local election in every province to make any region have more autonomy to control their own region. And current development also reveal the plan to change the capital from Java (Jakarta) into Kalimantan island in order to bring more attention to out side Java and create more balance in term of politics and economic development.

The Ethnic influence on politics
Well I can say that the divide is more on Islamist/ Nationalist Religious vs Secular Nationalist/Non Muslim rivalry. The fact that Islam traditional in Java (NU) support the Secular Nationalist coalition is more due to Abdurrahman Wahid influence with the organization. Islam Traditionalist in non Java region tend to vote for Islamist/Nationalist Religious coalition since they dont get much influence from NU. Abdurrahman Wahid himself has passed away but he lead NU for so long since he is one of the sons of the NU founder and is well known to have liberal view.

Sumatra/Kalimantan/Jakarta/West Java (Sundanese-second biggest ethnic) / South Sulawesi/ NTB tend to vote for Islamist/Nationalist Religious coalition.

As we can see the popularity of Ahok (Chinese Indonesian) in Jakarta election and also Anies Baswedan (Arab Indonesian) and Sandiaga Uno (Sumatran/Malay ethnic) in both Jakarta and National election, so I can see that Indonesian dont look on ethnicity anymore to choose their leader but rather on their performance and political side (Islamist/Nationalist Religious vs Secular Nationalist/Non Muslim).

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The video is quite long so I will try to answer later.

 

[ArabianEmpires&Caliphates]

@Indos

Sorry for the late reply brother. Just logged in again and read another very interesting and educational post from you as usual. I think that I need to read your replies and make a serious effort to make a reply rather than just thanking your posts.

Your written English is really good so you don't need to worry about that at all. Keep studying/reading/listening to English and it will improve further. This is the secret behind every language. Take it from someone who is lucky/unlucky to have learned/been learning quite a few of languages besides Arabic and English. Naturally the more languages that you master, the easier it usually tends to be to learn a new one.

If you want any information about the Indonesian diaspora/Saudi Arabians of Indonesian/Malaysian origins, just ask and I will do my best to answer. I will learn something myself as well in the process as usual whenever you research a topic.

As for Bahasa, I will leave that to the old man but sadly he forget most of it as I once told you given that the diplomatic stay in Indonesia (Jakarta) was ages ago when Indonesia was another world entirely. I do have a special likeness for Indonesia though as you know. It runs in the family for the past 2 generations (father and grandfather).

BTW I don't always get a notification when users tag me or mention me. Not sure what is going on. Will try to reply in that KSA/Qatar thread.

 

[Indos]

BTW how accurate is this video?

Ya, I think the news talk about the declining of Indonesia democracy. And there is huge university students as well protesting on a law that will weaken our respected anti corruption body.

The student have stopped demonstrating though and will do legal action in our Constitutional Court to reject the new Anti Corruption law. The contain on the law that many dont agree, including me, is the creation of a committee inside KPK (Anti Corruption Body) to control officer there in tapping some one. So KPK will not freely tapping any body like happening in the past with this new law. Actually the committee members that are chosen are well respected figure, but regardless of that, we still dont like the move and want the old law instead.

But saying that our democracy is declining with this event is not right either since the effort made by the President and parliament Today will effect the next election, both for parliament and presidential election. I believe press and many respected civil institutions will blow this issue in 2024 election so that our elite doesnt have any option left beside bringing back the old Anti Corruption law and scrapping the new one. Our Presidential debates are all conducted by our private News TV channels with the questions made by respected civil society figures. This is how check and balance mechanism in our democracy works. They cannot win election if they work opposite of the people interest.

The fact that our demonstration action is not like happening in Iraq/Iran/Lebanon/Hongkong where they become so stubborn and want to solve the problem rightly on the street (by doing long demonstration until the demand is fullfiled) rather than through legal mechanism show our society is quite mature and patience, two traits that is needed in any working democracy system.

Talking about conservative (Islamist) wing in parliament trying to influence our old criminal law made by Dutch by implementing Shariah influenced law is not something bad IMO since it is still within a constitutional corridor.

BTW if you want I can post some videos and translate them about Saudi Arabians of Indonesian background, this is a very old migration/community in Arabia as well that I am sure that you know about bro.

Sure bro, I would like to see those videos and see Indonesian Saudi community life in Saudi Arabia.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Indos]

This Palestinian living in Indonesia gets many Indonesian viewers @Falcon29