Arab -Israel Dog Fights

[Desertfalcon]

Thank you for an excellent reference.


may be I am making a mistake.

But I can't find any reference to pilot Saif ul Azam downing so many Israeli planes.


This is in reference to post #20


@Pakistanisage any reference to Saif ul Azam in this database?

I found a couple of his kills of Israeli Mirage III's, listed in the link below. They do not always have the name of the pilot so I suspect that some of the other Hunter F.Mk.59 kills that do not list the pilot, may also be his.

Iraqi Air-to-Air Victories since 1967

 

[FaujHistorian]

.Marxism is a ideology which apposes religion, ....

hahahaha. Karl Marx was a practicing Jew. How could he oppose religion.

Is that what they teach in the mad-house mad-rassahs these days. Ok my dear graduate of..., here is a quick summary. I'm sure you can do google/wiki. I hate to recommend serious books on marxism to someone who is so out of reality.



In the mid-to-late 19th century, the intellectual tenets of Marxism were inspired by two German philosophers: Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxist analyses and methodologies have influenced multiple political ideologies and social movements throughout history. Marxism encompasses an economic theory, a sociological theory, a philosophical method, and a revolutionary view of social change



So please go do some study.

This is not a thread on marxism.


For cryin out loud, read the subject line before posting your rants.

I found a couple of his kills of Israeli Mirage III's, listed in the link below. They do not always have the name of the pilot so I suspect that some of the other Hunter F.Mk.59 kills that do not list the pilot, may also be his.

Iraqi Air-to-Air Victories since 1967

Thanks.

Nor records for his kills in Jordan?

Still looking

 

[KingMamba]

@FaujHistorian

What in the world is a "Islamic Marxist"??? How do you combine Marxism and Islam?? Marxism is apposed to religion and preaches the equalization of the two genders.

Is this a word you just invented?

That is his new fad ever since somebody opened up a Communist party of Pakistan thread, he is diametrically opposed to any thought besides his own and calls everything he disagrees with a load of shit and then says peace at the end lol. I think @Chak Bamu 's post about him was spot on.

 

[FaujHistorian]

That is his new fad ever since somebody opened up a Communist party of Pakistan thread, he is diametrically opposed to any thought besides his own and calls everything he disagrees with a load of shit and then says peace at the end lol. I think @Chak Bamu 's post about him was spot on.

please stick to the topic / subject / OP.

If you want to discuss Marxism or its dastardly form aka Islamism, please open a new thread.

Thank you

 

[KingMamba]

PAF's contribution was not overt. It was not meant to be overt. Even though there was an element of GOP's willing participation, it has always been hushed up. After reading a number of accounts, this much is quite apparent. Therefore, nobody is going to go all-out Sherlock on this one. @FaujHistorian is rather selective about which rumors he will certify and which ones he would trash. It is no surprise that he would belittle these claims and demand highest standards of proof, knowing full well that it shall never be done. Why? He is ideologically opposed to any Islamic leaning, any effort that intends to support Ummah, any measure that could warm a believer's heart. When he goes: "Islamic-marxist " blah blah blah, you can well understand his intention as well as his bias.

Islamic and Marxist can not be joined anyhow you try. Use Elfi, use Araldite, use Epoxy, use any common / uncommon adhesive, you just can not do it. Only an uncommon disregard for logic, historical knowledge, and plain common sense can make some one claim what the heck ever Fauj claims.

100% agree. @Desert Fox

please stick to the topic / subject / OP.

If you want to discuss Marxism or its dastardly form aka Islamism, please open a new thread.

Thank you

Sir you brought it up with your Islamic Marxist rant so please admit you derailed the thread.

 

[Desertfalcon]

Nor records for his kills in Jordan?

Still looking

Not per se. There is one record with his name with a Hunter that was destroyed on the ground Most of the Jordanian Hunter's met a similar fate in the '67 war with some survivors making it to Iraq where according to ACIG, they fought for Jordan, with Jordanian markings, but were incorporated as part of the Iraqi air forces contingent. That may be some of the kills listed for the IrAF without a pilot listed.

"All but four of Jordanian Hunters were destroyed in Israeli strikes on 5 June 1967: these four survivors were then sent to Iraq."-ACIG

"- 702/C, F.Mk.6, flown by Flt.Lt. Saiful-Azam (PAF), on 5 June 1967, it probably had full No. 1 Sqn RJAF markings in the early 1960, when it survived a crash-landing, but was destroyed on 5 June 1967."-ACIG

You have to scroll down to the section on the RJAF.

Arab Air Forces on 5 June 1967

 

[FaujHistorian]

100% agree. @Desert Fox



Sir you brought it up with your Islamic Marxist rant so please admit you derailed the thread.

learn from @Desertfalcon. You have not given him thumbs up for his documentary evidence and serious contribution towards the discussion.

and quit being childish

 

[American Eagle]

hahahah. This is the same old $hit.


Ok back to the topic.

We have plenty of Isarelis and at least one American air force member who served in Pakistan during the same time frame.

Time to cross check Israeli names, and planes.

@American Eagle, @500 any comments?


Thank you

I know of no Israelis who served (military) inside Pakistan while I was there from 1963-65.

Iran during 1963-65 had military equipment dealings with Israel, as did the old South African regmine prior to Nelson Mandela becoming he first black head of government in South Africa.

Factually, however, the Pakistan Army served and serves with distinction in various UN military missions.

The Pakistani UN Army detail helped save US Army lives in the messy Somalia UN security force.
Have you neither read or/nor seen the movie BLACK HAWK DOWN? The Pakistani Army as part of the UN military mission to Somalia did brave and outstanding service and duty there.

 

[waraich66]

No Doubt ,Israel had better fighters and pilots

 

[dontsuspendme]

Any mention of the volunteer pilots from PAF ???

Is that necessary to bring pakistan into every arab israel thread?
What are you trying to prove?

 

[YA-Mahdi]

Did not arabs defeat in just 6 days ?

 

[Informant]

Is that necessary to bring pakistan into every arab israel thread?
What are you trying to prove?

They were in actual dog fights, nothing needed to be proven

 

[Desert Fox]

hahahaha. Karl Marx was a practicing Jew. How could he oppose religion.

Is that what they teach in the mad-house mad-rassahs these days. Ok my dear graduate of..., here is a quick summary. I'm sure you can do google/wiki. I hate to recommend serious books on marxism to someone who is so out of reality.

Looks like you have been going to the "mad-rassahs", not me. Your sheer ignorance is appalling! Marx opposed religion.

"Thus the criticism of heaven turns into the criticism of earth, the criticism of religion into the criticism of law and the criticism of theology into the criticism of politics ." Religion for Marx is a human product. "Man makes religion, religion doesn't make man. Religion is the self-consciousness and self-esteem of man who has either not yet found himself or has already lost himself again." In short, what Marx proposes is that religion does not reflect man's true consciousness. Religion, as Marx sees it, is a false consciousness; religion is the product of men, the product of those in power—those who control the productive process

Content Pages of the Encyclopedia of Religion and Social Science

Marxism and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Opium of the people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the mid-to-late 19th century, the intellectual tenets of Marxism were inspired by two German philosophers: Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels. Marxist analyses and methodologies have influenced multiple political ideologies and social movements throughout history. Marxism encompasses an economic theory, a sociological theory, a philosophical method, and a revolutionary view of social change

Nowhere does it say he was pro-religion.

So please go do some study.

Follow your own advice.

This is not a thread on marxism.


For cryin out loud, read the subject line before posting your rants.

Then don't make ignorant comments like "Islamic Marxists".