Arab intellectual on Arabs

[fhassan]

The individual in the video was a little harsh, however his underlying themes are correct.

However, Muslims should be careful - remember that the prophet (PBUH) was an Arab, and if anything we do not disrespect Arabs for his sake.

 

[Imran Khan]

I guess the discussion is between Pakistan and Arab and India is not in picture, so stay on topic.

Also trolls are those who go offtopic, India is not topic of this thread.

you are the one who **** this thread you know that brother.
and members like you dril every thread never leave a single chance to spread hate on forum you are first one who go off topic just for down pakistan.and if you are real man say sorry and promise that you will discuss on topic or just simply leave the topic.beleve me its not hard i read every post but just reply when its need.sorry for hard words.

 

[Solomon2]

"The Arabs invented or discovered the zero, but what did they do with it? Some of them sat on it, some put it on their heads, while others wore it around their waists and began shaking their hips, their bellies, and their breasts in order to sell to the world the idea that modern Arabs are doing something. The Arabs have lost their worth, their humanity, their culture, and everything..."

"In all honesty the Arabs are backward and not fit for civilization at all...The Arab rulers are a reflection of the people...The reality of Arabs is one of defeat...and a discourse of conspiracy...all have been defeats that we package as victories..."

OK, now that we're done spilling family secrets, and that we've established MEMRI's translations are accurate and selective, can we stop this because the vid has nothing to do with Pakistan? Or do Pakistanis associate the purported deficiencies of Arabs with their own?

 

[Hulk]

lol, where in the video did the guy mention Pakistan? he's talking about his own people NOT Pakistan!!!!

so basically you need to stay on topic!

OMG I made a joke of myself, I apologise for it. I was unable to see the video and took we for Pakistan.

 

[Sayyaf]

Sayyaf do you know that MEMRI is actually run by Ex-Mossad agents to defame arabs. Have you actually looked at their website. They take things out of context and make it look like the people are saying something while in really they are actually saying something that is completely different. My brother most of the arabs i have met are very nice and we should not play into the hands of those who would sow hatred amongst us. Below is the article that was published in the guardian about this organization.

Selective Memri | World news | guardian.co.uk


For some time now, I have been receiving small gifts from a generous institute in the United States. The gifts are high-quality translations of articles from Arabic newspapers which the institute sends to me by email every few days, entirely free-of-charge.
The emails also go to politicians and academics, as well as to lots of other journalists. The stories they contain are usually interesting.

Whenever I get an email from the institute, several of my Guardian colleagues receive one too and regularly forward their copies to me - sometimes with a note suggesting that I might like to check out the story and write about it.

If the note happens to come from a more senior colleague, I'm left feeling that I really ought to write about it. One example last week was a couple of paragraphs translated by the institute, in which a former doctor in the Iraqi army claimed that Saddam Hussein had personally given orders to amputate the ears of military deserters.

The organisation that makes these translations and sends them out is the Middle East Media Research Institute (Memri), based in Washington but with recently-opened offices in London, Berlin and Jerusalem.

Its work is subsidised by US taxpayers because as an "independent, non-partisan, non-profit" organisation, it has tax-deductible status under American law.

Memri's purpose, according to its website, is to bridge the language gap between the west - where few speak Arabic - and the Middle East, by "providing timely translations of Arabic, Farsi, and Hebrew media".

Despite these high-minded statements, several things make me uneasy whenever I'm asked to look at a story circulated by Memri. First of all, it's a rather mysterious organisation. Its website does not give the names of any people to contact, not even an office address.

The reason for this secrecy, according to a former employee, is that "they don't want suicide bombers walking through the door on Monday morning" (Washington Times, June 20).

This strikes me as a somewhat over-the-top precaution for an institute that simply wants to break down east-west language barriers.

The second thing that makes me uneasy is that the stories selected by Memri for translation follow a familiar pattern: either they reflect badly on the character of Arabs or they in some way further the political agenda of Israel. I am not alone in this unease.

Ibrahim Hooper of the Council on American-Islamic Relations told the Washington Times: "Memri's intent is to find the worst possible quotes from the Muslim world and disseminate them as widely as possible."

Memri might, of course, argue that it is seeking to encourage moderation by highlighting the blatant examples of intolerance and extremism. But if so, one would expect it - for the sake of non-partisanship - t o publicise extremist articles in the Hebrew media too.

Although Memri claims that it does provide translations from Hebrew media, I can't recall receiving any.

Evidence from Memri's website also casts doubt on its non-partisan status. Besides supporting liberal democracy, civil society, and the free market, the institute also emphasises "the continuing relevance of Zionism to the Jewish people and to the state of Israel".

That is what its website used to say, but the words about Zionism have now been deleted. The original page, however, can still be found in internet archives.

The reason for Memri's air of secrecy becomes clearer when we look at the people behind it. The co-founder and president of Memri, and the registered owner of its website, is an Israeli called Yigal Carmon.

Mr - or rather, Colonel - Carmon spent 22 years in Israeli military intelligence and later served as counter-terrorism adviser to two Israeli prime ministers, Yitzhak Shamir and Yitzhak Rabin.

Retrieving another now-deleted page from the archives of Memri's website also throws up a list of its staff. Of the six people named, three - including Col Carmon - are described as having worked for Israeli intelligence.

Among the other three, one served in the Israeli army's Northern Command Ordnance Corps, one has an academic background, and the sixth is a former stand-up comedian.

Col Carmon's co-founder at Memri is Meyrav Wurmser, who is also director of the centre for Middle East policy at the Indianapolis-based Hudson Institute, which bills itself as "America's premier source of applied research on enduring policy challenges".

The ubiquitous Richard Perle, chairman of the Pentagon's defence policy board, recently joined Hudson's board of trustees.

Ms Wurmser is the author of an academic paper entitled Can Israel Survive Post-Zionism? in which she argues that leftwing Israeli intellectuals pose "more than a passing threat" to the state of Israel, undermining its soul and reducing its will for self-defence.

In addition, Ms Wurmser is a highly qualified, internationally recognised, inspiring and knowledgeable speaker on the Middle East whose presence would make any "event, radio or television show a unique one" - according to Benador Associates, a public relations company which touts her services.

Nobody, so far as I know, disputes the general accuracy of Memri's translations but there are other reasons to be concerned about its output.

The email it circulated last week about Saddam Hussein ordering people's ears to be cut off was an extract from a longer article in the pan-Arab newspaper, al-Hayat, by Adil Awadh who claimed to have first-hand knowledge of it.

It was the sort of tale about Iraqi brutality that newspapers would happily reprint without checking, especially in the current atmosphere of war fever. It may well be true, but it needs to be treated with a little circumspection.

Mr Awadh is not exactly an independent figure. He is, or at least was, a member of the Iraqi National Accord, an exiled Iraqi opposition group backed by the US - and neither al-Hayat nor Memri mentioned this.

Also, Mr Awadh's allegation first came to light some four years ago, when he had a strong personal reason for making it. According to a Washington Post report in 1998, the amputation claim formed part of his application for political asylum in the United States.

At the time, he was one of six Iraqis under arrest in the US as suspected terrorists or Iraqi intelligence agents, and he was trying to show that the Americans had made a mistake.

Earlier this year, Memri scored two significant propaganda successes against Saudi Arabia. The first was its translation of an article from al-Riyadh newspaper in which a columnist wrote that Jews use the blood of Christian or Muslim children in pastries for the Purim religious festival.

The writer, a university teacher, was apparently relying on an anti-semitic myth that dates back to the middle ages. What this demonstrated, more than anything, was the ignorance of many Arabs - even those highly educated - about Judaism and Israel, and their readiness to believe such ridiculous stories.

But Memri claimed al-Riyadh was a Saudi "government newspaper" - in fact it's privately owned - implying that the article had some form of official approval.

Al-Riyadh's editor said he had not seen the article before publication because he had been abroad. He apologised without hesitation and sacked his columnist, but by then the damage had been done.

Memri's next success came a month later when Saudi Arabia's ambassador to London wrote a poem entitled The Martyrs - about a young woman suicide bomber - which was published in al-Hayat newspaper.

Memri sent out translated extracts from the poem, which it described as "praising suicide bombers". Whether that was the poem's real message is a matter of interpretation. It could, perhaps more plausibly, be read as condemning the political ineffectiveness of Arab leaders, but Memri's interpretation was reported, almost without question, by the western media.

These incidents involving Saudi Arabia should not be viewed in isolation. They are part of building a case against the kingdom and persuading the United States to treat it as an enemy, rather than an ally.

It's a campaign that the Israeli government and American neo-conservatives have been pushing since early this year - one aspect of which was the bizarre anti-Saudi briefing at the Pentagon, hosted last month by Richard Perle.

To anyone who reads Arabic newspapers regularly, it should be obvious that the items highlighted by Memri are those that suit its agenda and are not representative of the newspapers' content as a whole.

The danger is that many of the senators, congressmen and "opinion formers" who don't read Arabic but receive Memri's emails may get the idea that these extreme examples are not only truly representative but also reflect the policies of Arab governments.

Memri's Col Carmon seems eager to encourage them in that belief. In Washington last April, in testimony to the House committee on international relations, he portrayed the Arab media as part of a wide-scale system of government-sponsored indoctrination.

"The controlled media of the Arab governments conveys hatred of the west, and in particular, of the United States," he said. "Prior to September 11, one could frequently find articles which openly supported, or even called for, terrorist attacks against the United States ...

"The United States is sometimes compared to Nazi Germany, President Bush to Hitler, Guantanamo to Auschwitz," he said.

In the case of the al-Jazeera satellite channel, he added, "the overwhelming majority of guests and callers are typically anti-American and anti-semitic".

Unfortunately, it is on the basis of such sweeping generalisations that much of American foreign policy is built these days.

As far as relations between the west and the Arab world are concerned, language is a barrier that perpetuates ignorance and can easily foster misunderstanding.

All it takes is a small but active group of Israelis to exploit that barrier for their own ends and start changing western perceptions of Arabs for the worse.

It is not difficult to see what Arabs might do to counter that. A group of Arab media companies could get together and publish translations of articles that more accurately reflect the content of their newspapers.

It would certainly not be beyond their means. But, as usual, they may prefer to sit back and grumble about the machinations of Israeli intelligence veterans.

The following correction was printed in the Guardian's Corrections and Clarifications column, Wednesday August 21 2002

In an article headed Atrocity stories regain currency, page 13, August 8, and in an article headed Selective Memri on the Guardian website, we referred to Dr Adil Awadh, an Iraqi doctor who alleged that Saddam Hussein had ordered doctors to amputate the ears of soldiers who deserted. Dr Awadh has asked us to make it clear that he has no connection with Memri (Middle East Media Research Institute), and that he did not authorise its translation of parts of an article by him. He is no longer a member of the Iraqi National Accord (INA). He is an independent member of the Iraqi National Congress (INC). His reference to orders by Saddam Hussein to cut off the ears of deserters has been supported by evidence from other sources.

Salaam my brother!
Thank you for informing me as i wasn't aware! This was very useful!

 

[Materialistic]

I guess the discussion is between Pakistan and Arab and India is not in picture, so stay on topic.

Wo wo wo,how the hell Pakistan got into it ! its just about Arabs stick to the topic, i know ur anger and hatred would have made u forget that Pakistan was not part of the discussion its just ur racist mind (pure Indian).

And do u have any source or any proof to say about donations ! or are u just explaining ur wet dream here ? Do say things that u can prove.

First Pakistan has not taken any donations from the world, thats a different story that we are 5th worldwide to give donations.

Secondly, if Pakistan owes any money then it is Loan from IMF or America which is something to be paid back, which it has paid and if not at the current moment then its the tenure of the loan and i think this is actually none of ur concern too.

Thirdly, if just the word of Aid from America is ur inspiration then America is not doing us any favor, we are fighting its war all the problems and the mess that we have are its blessings and we have lost approximately 45$Billion in it of which American has given around 10+ to Pakistan. (The actual reason of pain to any Indian) because they wanted for Pakistan to be sucked up in this war on terror and execute all of its resources over there.

Rest about the Arab charity, well that's not Pakistan thats India, if u ever get a chance then do visit ME sometime, its people from India the biggest majority in all the countries,working as from Peon, house cleaners, road cleaning , gutters cleaning, small grocery shops, labours to clerical jobs, who are also now being sent back and replaced by Nepalis, Bangalis and Sirilankis because of lack of communication skills(both native & foreign languages) and working effeciency.

And to your shock, there is not even a single Pakistani as a personal servent or working for an Arab, first of all most of them are businessmen from small to the richest expatriates in gulf, or if they work they are under companies, not some ones personal cook, driver, cleaner neither will u find them in muncipalities. And the only nationality, even most of the Arabs refrain to mess with under un-pleasent circumstances.

And now the last but not the least, As u dragged in PAkistan all of a sudden, i tell u ,

-You should be concerned about 900 Million poors starving everyday.

-A tag of being declared as world's Poorest country, overtaking Chad and Ethopia in poverty & hunger ( the poorest in Africa) by UN.
Housing over 48% of worlds poverty with 20% of world population.

- A nation drinking excess of water to feed their stomachs, because of lack of food.

Also it is Indian people who try to please and bring as much of investments possible from Arabs to India, most of the things u find in ur country and feel good of, just try to find the investors behind them.

My post is rude, because it was required as per the comments earlier made.

 

[MilesTogo]

I am not sure of better but they are original Muslims.

Not only that, but Arabs have become too arrogant and prideful! This pride and arrogance has led them away from the true Islam! Today the downfall of Arabs can be traced back to their nationalism! Arabs are deeply divided because of Nationalism! They have this superiority complex because of which they consider themselves better than other Muslims!

 

[Sayyaf]

I am not sure of better but they are original Muslims.

Yes they are original Muslims, but that doesn't mean they can consider themselves better than others! Their humans just like us! They eat, sleep, use bathroom, go to work, go to school just like every other person!

 

[Super Falcon]

we need these type of people in arab world they r dead most of them r dead only GREAT GOD can open their eyes

 

[Canaan]

the gentleman on al jazeera is absolutely right!
We have been in a period of decline for at least 600 years. The good thing though is that new forces are emerging among Arabs themselves who are sick of the current situation, and inshallah will work towards a new renaissance in the Arab world, but we can't do it without your and other muslim's help.

 

[pak-yes]

^^How can we help when you ppl give your multi billion dollar contracts to the west ok we admit that our industry is not as good as west but still our industry is not that worst that it can't fulfill your needs.How can we help you when we are dire need of cash and your kings award contracts to the west.

 

[Sayyaf]

the gentleman on al jazeera is absolutely right!
We have been in a period of decline for at least 600 years. The good thing though is that new forces are emerging among Arabs themselves who are sick of the current situation, and inshallah will work towards a new renaissance in the Arab world, but we can't do it without your and other muslim's help.

We're always willing to help our Muslim brethren! But you along with every other Arab has to bring the change in your countries because that is a whole different task that Pakistan can't do and only you have that ability to do it!

Remember, no one is perfect and neither are we Pakistanis, but as Muslims its our duty to struggle and make ourselves good Human beings and good Muslims!

 

[Super Falcon]

i hope the change willll come soon rathar than later but i dont see it is coming sooner but i hope it willl hoping against hope

 

[Canaan]

^^How can we help when you ppl give your multi billion dollar contracts to the west ok we admit that our industry is not as good as west but still our industry is not that worst that it can't fulfill your needs.How can we help you when we are dire need of cash and your kings award contracts to the west.

see, hopefully this is one of the things that will change. Why import our weapons when we can produce them ourselves. The Muslims back in the days were famous for their innovation and ingenuity.

 

[Canaan]

We're always willing to help our Muslim brethren! But you along with every other Arab has to bring the change in your countries because that is a whole different task that Pakistan can't do and only you have that ability to do it!

Remember, no one is perfect and neither are we Pakistanis, but as Muslims its our duty to struggle and make ourselves good Human beings and good Muslims!

I am aware of that, What Pakistanis can do is to include us and this change in their prayers, and God willing, we as muslims shall overcome.