Another vid on SU-37

[Thunder]

http://www.strategypage.com/gallery/defaul...?target=seu.htm

This thing will do what you thought was impossibile

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Crazy plane. No wonder the answer was only "stealth" to get an edge against them.

On the other side note, will all the pilots be able to perform this meanuver in the war, chances are highly unlikely. Only few can do it, but nevertheless a great plane indeed.

 

[Sid]

Old video. The aircraft can do those manouvers because it has Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC) and to make matters worse vis-a-vis Pakistan, the Indian Su-30 MKIs are also TVC capable. Imagine what PAF pilots would have to go through in the event of another war.

No to get too disheartened as F-16 Block 52s are capable of fiercely competing the Su-30's manouverability.

 

[Neo]

Incredible manoeveres indeed!

TVC was tested by the USA and Germany in 1990, I wonder why the technology hasn't been used in latest designs.

Check the EADS/Boeing X-31A;

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRX-31.htm

 

[Thunder]

Originally posted by Sid@Feb 25 2006, 06:12 AM
Old video. The aircraft can do those manouvers because it has Thrust Vectoring Control (TVC) and to make matters worse vis-a-vis Pakistan, the Indian Su-30 MKIs are also TVC capable. Imagine what PAF pilots would have to go through in the event of another war.

No to get too disheartened as F-16 Block 52s are capable of fiercely competing the Su-30's manouverability.

[post=6228]Quoted post[/post]​

So what. The JF-17 and J-10 will also have TVC.

 

[Zeeshan S.]

I wonder how come the F-16 Block 50 doesn't have the TVC capability when it is known for one of the best dog fighting planes. Though i know there is a version of F-16 which has TVC capability. Was it F-16XL? The plane is/was in service with NASA for specific missions.

 

[Thunder]

Originally posted by Zeeshan Siddiqui@Feb 26 2006, 03:43 AM
I wonder how come the F-16 Block 50 doesn't have the TVC capability when it is known for one of the best dog fighting planes. Though i know there is a version of F-16 which has TVC capability. Was it F-16XL? The plane is/was in service with NASA for specific missions.

[post=6269]Quoted post[/post]​

No the F-16's that UAE baught has TVC. F-16 E/F Block 60. But you see the chinese/ruissians hae perfected the art of TVC. While USA has only begin to perfect it. Ruissin/chinese fighter engines can perform TVC all he way around, while the F-22.F-16 E/F Block 60 can only perform TVC 20%

 

[Sid]

I took my time to reply to your post since I was busy checking with my sources about your claims and they confirmed my first instincts - rubbish!

Once again you are caught off-guard by claiming things which you cannot backup with facts. The F-16 Block60s that the UAE bought DO NOT have TVC in their production version (meaning the ones that they're flying today) but yes, TVC was there in the prototype of the Block60. It is unclear why the idea was dropped for production AC.

Chinese/Russian perfected it? Russians perfected it, Chinese obtained it just like the Americans did. The US has full knowledge of TVC as well but it does not incorporate it due to cost/benefit factor as it gets almost similar manouverability by using other techs.

And there is NO such thing as a 20% TVC, 50% TVC or 100% TVC. Its either your aircraft has it or it doesn't. There is no 'grey area' here. Raptors will have the TVC but not the JSF.

 

[Bull]

Originally posted by Sid@Mar 1 2006, 10:01 AM
I took my time to reply to your post since I was busy checking with my sources about your claims and they confirmed my first instincts - rubbish!

Once again you are caught off-guard by claiming things which you cannot backup with facts. The F-16 Block60s that the UAE bought DO NOT have TVC in their production version (meaning the ones that they're flying today) but yes, TVC was there in the prototype of the Block60. It is unclear why the idea was dropped for production AC.

Chinese/Russian perfected it? Russians perfected it, Chinese obtained it just like the Americans did. The US has full knowledge of TVC as well but it does not incorporate it due to cost/benefit factor as it gets almost similar manouverability by using other techs.

And there is NO such thing as a 20% TVC, 50% TVC or 100% TVC. Its either your aircraft has it or it doesn't. There is no 'grey area' here. Raptors will have the TVC but not the JSF.

[post=6422]Quoted post[/post]​

good pst, which chineese plane has TVC

 

[Zeeshan S.]

Chinese have/aimed for getting TVC for J-10. J-10 was obviously made for countering Su-27 series which was and is still a threat through out the world. This threat was even more significant during the old days when China was flying most of the 2nd generation fighters and only some 3rd generations fighters (which i am not sure which ones).

J-10 is in todays service and is able to deal with Su-27 series (that is one reason why license production of J-11/Su-27 was stopped)

So J-10 does have TVC as far as my knowledge goes, but i am not really sure about if JF-17 has the same thing, though i know that the recent modifications of DSI and wing modificaions would really increase its menuverability.

 

[Thunder]

Once again you are caught off-guard by claiming things which you cannot backup with facts. The F-16 Block60s that the UAE bought DO NOT have TVC in their production version (meaning the ones that they're flying today) but yes, TVC was there in the prototype of the Block60. It is unclear why the idea was dropped for production AC.

I too did some reasearch and found out that you were right. But i am supraised that why did'nt UAE got the one with TVC.

Chinese/Russian perfected it? Russians perfected it, Chinese obtained it just like the Americans did. The US has full knowledge of TVC as well but it does not incorporate it due to cost/benefit factor as it gets almost similar manouverability by using other techs.

Russians perfected it, and then they sold it to china. So the chinese have learnt from the pros. I don't know the reason why USA does'nt want mounverabitly but the ruissians belive that in a war with a power equal to their size. Mounverabilty will play a big factor as jamers will be used alot to jam radars.

And there is NO such thing as a 20% TVC, 50% TVC or 100% TVC. Its either your aircraft has it or it doesn't. There is no 'grey area' here. Raptors will have the TVC but not the JSF.

What i meant was that the F-22's engine is'nt a "pure" TVC. Unlike the ruissians TVC enignes, which can go all the up or down, the F-22's can't It can only go a bit/20% down and up. See the SU-37 engines going up and down in the vid i posted above.

 

[Thunder]

Originally posted by Zeeshan S.@Mar 2 2006, 05:36 AM
Chinese have/aimed for getting TVC for J-10. J-10 was obviously made for countering Su-27 series which was and is still a threat through out the world. This threat was even more significant during the old days when China was flying most of the 2nd generation fighters and only some 3rd generations fighters (which i am not sure which ones).

J-10 is in todays service and is able to deal with Su-27 series (that is one reason why license production of J-11/Su-27 was stopped)

So J-10 does have TVC as far as my knowledge goes, but i am not really sure about if JF-17 has the same thing, though i know that the recent modifications of DSI and wing modificaions would really increase its menuverability.

[post=6516]Quoted post[/post]​

JF-17 will have RD-93 engine, which is TVC. Thohg there was a rumour that Russia won't give that engine to Pakistan because it might hurt Russian-Indian relations. But it's a rumour so ia m not too sure, but if it's true than PAF probabley has something to back it up