Another religious thread.

[AUz]

A few questions.
Do you feel or do you think that Islam is in need of a renaissance? Are there any ambiguities that need to be addressed ? Is there is a need for evolution in the basic perception if the Islamic concepts ?

Read post 12

As for your question,Islam is alright but our understanding and specially clergy are things which needs renaissance .. I believe that Muslims should start studying about Islam themselves rather than depending on clergy and molvis ...

Are there any ambiguities that need to be addressed ?

Be little more specific..like what?

I would like to request you however ,to not limit your discussion based on your pre-conceived notions about me or the religion i subscribe to.

I apologize if you felt like that !

 

[SQ8]

A few questions.
Do you feel or do you think that Islam is in need of a renaissance? Are there any ambiguities that need to be addressed ? Is there is a need for evolution in the basic perception if the Islamic concepts ?

What is needed is demolishing of the clergy in present day Muslim society... specifically the need for a controlled version of Islam.
That can only be possible when Muslims decide to learn about their religion .. and not trust every other interpretation as accurate without researching it for themselves.

There are technically no ambiguities except those created by neglect of historical records...the neglect is leaving the research and study of Islam to a select few whose credentials are usually suspect.

The evolution in concepts is an ongoing process.. and will continue with time.
Question is.. where and who gets the choice to play the selection committee..
Who decides whether the evolved interpretation by the Salafi is correct or incorrect.. or the evolved interpretation by another group is correct. Each will be at logger heads with each other..

Islam's renaissance will come about by the explicit personalization of religious belief.. and the implicit common declaration of faith.
When people decide that they are free to choose whatever road they take.. as long as they are heading in the same direction and with a common destination in mind.

New roads can be paved.. but are better paved with those who know take the time to learn how to pave roads..
Those who choose to go off road can do so as well.. but whether or not they will still move in the same direction.. or even make it to a destination is never guaranteed...

 

[Last Hope]

Like someone here said, religion is like two faced swords. He maybe talking about his.

Islam is just one and one only!

No where is Islam do two things cross each other. It only leads us to one place Paradise (in the end) and peace (in the world)
Those who are using Islam as a way for war, aren't muslims themselves.
Once a group was caught by the Pakistan Army for rape murder. Before execution, they were asked if they knew the Qalma (Base of Islam). Out of 6-7, only one did. So, they dont even know the qalma, and go for imaginary Jihad, and defame the name of Islam.

Islam orders us all to do Jihad. It is a must for us all. Don't get scared, cause Jihad is comething completely different from what you think. The firt stage of Jihad i to fight ourselves, our desire and ego to make us a better person. Then comes to spread knowledge of Islam to our fellow brothers and sisters, and make them more aware of what Islam is. That is through pen and literature. That is Jihad too! In the end, Jihad is when you have to fight the non-muslims, only if they bring their army to fight yours. You shouldn't start it but work out methods of peace.

The taliban who call themselves Jihadis need to have Jihad with themselves first and learn Islam. Maybe accept Islam too.
Call them atheists. But its not their fault either. They were all kidnapped and brainwashed since they were 5-6 years old, when their parents sent them to Madrassa for knowledge about Islam. They are too immature and unaware of world and life. (talking about suicide bombers and frontline fighters).

Listen to this:
http://ia700501.us.archive.org/25/items/Mufti_733/FawjimuftiMubahasa-1.mp3

These are talks of a Taliban terrorist and Pakistan Army Soldier (dont think its an officer).
It is clear that the Taliban guy doesnt know Islam.

And here this too:

(Watch it from 15 to 16 minutes)

Now decide between yourselves.
Which is Islam.

 

[darkinsky]

look indian, osma bin laden didnt do good things, right, islam doesnt justify what he supposedly did, he killed the scores of ppl in 9/11 etc etc, but there are things needed to be taken into view

1) was osama really a muslim or was he doing according to islam or was he just an american spy working for CIA with CIA made al quaeda??
2) was the invasion of afghanistan and kill its countrymen was justified according to international law just to find one man which america never found( supporting my claims on osama being CIA)

3) many indians here justify all sorts of events and producing weird logics for eg, killings of paestine is OK, creation of zionist state is OK, palestine shouldnt get it lands back because israel is legal creation

4) than india and its mighty democracy failing on kashmir issue and indians weird logics on kashmir genocide and mass graves

5) indian silience on iraq invasion, they still support the americans

6) indians justify the libyan invasion, and they say its to remove the mass killer gaddafi, now gaddafi is not a mass killer, the invasion of nato was for oil, its becoming clear now, but some how indians justify with weird logics

7) the indians never admit that gujrat massarce was unjust and indian hindus must apologise to indian muslims

regarding the invasion and reasons for islamic invasion there are three things

1) ask the non muslims to convert
2) ask their leaders to convert
3) if they dont convert pay jizya
3) or if not pay jizya than allow the muslim saints to spread islam in your lands
4) if they dont pay jizya and refuse to take muslims who can propagate the message then attack them

the ancient battles were purely fought on the battle ground, the muslims fought the armies, the innocent people were never harmed through these battles, nor has the muslims tried to forcefully convert the non muslims, the living example is greece, serbia, india and malaysia and indonesia never get invaded in the first place got converted

also to add, what kind of hinduism allows to support narinder modi to brutally kill muslims and then he gets support from hindus, care to explain that

thanks

 

[darkinsky]

What is needed is demolishing of the clergy in present day Muslim society... specifically the need for a controlled version of Islam.
That can only be possible when Muslims decide to learn about their religion .. and not trust every other interpretation as accurate without researching it for themselves.

There are technically no ambiguities except those created by neglect of historical records...the neglect is leaving the research and study of Islam to a select few whose credentials are usually suspect.

The evolution in concepts is an ongoing process.. and will continue with time.
Question is.. where and who gets the choice to play the selection committee..
Who decides whether the evolved interpretation by the Salafi is correct or incorrect.. or the evolved interpretation by another group is correct. Each will be at logger heads with each other..

Islam's renaissance will come about by the explicit personalization of religious belief.. and the implicit common declaration of faith.
When people decide that they are free to choose whatever road they take.. as long as they are heading in the same direction and with a common destination in mind.

New roads can be paved.. but are better paved with those who know take the time to learn how to pave roads..
Those who choose to go off road can do so as well.. but whether or not they will still move in the same direction.. or even make it to a destination is never guaranteed...

and to add to it, the pakistani education syllabus from class 1 to class 12 must be complete understanding of quran all thirty paras, so that just by educating pakistani one or two surats in class 10 or class 12 is not enough

when you say each and every muslim must understand islam and quran then personalization of religious belief cant be established, now its a collective measure and its called islamic society

 

[Mech]

look indian, osma bin laden didnt do good things, right, islam doesnt justify what he supposedly did, he killed the scores of ppl in 9/11 etc etc, but there are things needed to be taken into view

1) was osama really a muslim or was he doing according to islam or was he just an american spy working for CIA with CIA made al quaeda??
2) was the invasion of afghanistan and kill its countrymen was justified according to international law just to find one man which america never found( supporting my claims on osama being CIA)

3) many indians here justify all sorts of events and producing weird logics for eg, killings of paestine is OK, creation of zionist state is OK, palestine shouldnt get it lands back because israel is legal creation

4) than india and its mighty democracy failing on kashmir issue and indians weird logics on kashmir genocide and mass graves

5) indian silience on iraq invasion, they still support the americans

6) indians justify the libyan invasion, and they say its to remove the mass killer gaddafi, now gaddafi is not a mass killer, the invasion of nato was for oil, its becoming clear now, but some how indians justify with weird logics

7) the indians never admit that gujrat massarce was unjust and indian hindus must apologise to indian muslims

regarding the invasion and reasons for islamic invasion there are three things

1) ask the non muslims to convert
2) ask their leaders to convert
3) if they dont convert pay jizya
3) or if not pay jizya than allow the muslim saints to spread islam in your lands
4) if they dont pay jizya and refuse to take muslims who can propagate the message then attack them

the ancient battles were purely fought on the battle ground, the muslims fought the armies, the innocent people were never harmed through these battles, nor has the muslims tried to forcefully convert the non muslims, the living example is greece, serbia, india and malaysia and indonesia never get invaded in the first place got converted

also to add, what kind of hinduism allows to support narinder modi to brutally kill muslims and then he gets support from hindus, care to explain that

thanks

I would like once again reiterate my original plea to not restrict your thinking or your response based on where i'm from or what religion i subscribe to. I am not a Hindu and therefore am not interested in hearing any propaganda you may have in store attacking Hinduism. Not to mention, my knowledge regrading it are extremely limited. I do however, know several Hindus who openly criticise Modi and his communal politics. I too am very vocal when it comes to condemning Modi and his ilk.

But this thread is not about a comparative study or a "This vs This" analysis. This is not about India, this is not about anything local or south-asian even. This is about the religion Islam. I would like to ask you respectfully, to not attempt to hijack/ derail this thread un-necessarily. Think of yourself as a global citizen and then take a fresh look at the questions posted.

 

[darkinsky]

my questions to you aside hindu questions was that if indians can justify the invasion of muslim lands, and provide weird justifications than how can you complain about some muslims hailing osama and justifying the non muslim invasion by muslims???

 

[Mech]

and to add to it, the pakistani education syllabus from class 1 to class 12 must be complete understanding of quran all thirty paras, so that just by educating pakistani one or two surats in class 10 or class 12 is not enough

when you say each and every muslim must understand islam and quran then personalization of religious belief cant be established, now its a collective measure and its called islamic society

Do you think that the Pakistani education system must be re-worked to diminish the importance of a "Madrassa" or that the school-level education comprise of religious study complementing the Madrassa education?

Many young students in Pakistan attend a Madrassa as a substitute for formal schooling for a good number of years. When they suddenly enter a formal school environment; they are immediately taken aback. They cannot relate with or cope with a school environment, simply because they never received the basic lessons in arithmetic or Science. ( this is what a Pakistani teacher who used to be our neighbor told us over dinner )

 

[SQ8]

Unless objectivity can be maintained.. instead of taking Islam as tailor made for Pakistan.. any further discussion on this topic are fruitless.