What's new

Anglo Indians of Pakistan and India

Shinigami

SENIOR MEMBER
Joined
Mar 15, 2011
Messages
3,611
Reaction score
-10
Derek O'Brien
derek_081112125914.jpg


Excellent read

For obvious reasons, the narrative of Partition has been written in terms of the subcontinent's Hindus and Muslims. Christians have had only a small role in this drama. Anglo-Indians-the community I belong to and which makes up a minuscule section of India's Christians-have had just a walk-on part. Yet Partition had a dramatic impact on my extended family. My paternal grandfather was one of three brothers. The eldest of them was a civil servant who worked in Lahore and Peshawar, and served as private secretary to Sir Olaf Caroe, governor of the Northwest Frontier Province in the tumultuous days leading up to August 1947. Much of the rest of the family, including my father and grandfather, were in Kolkata (or Calcutta, as it was then called). One day, without quite realising its implications, these wings of the O'Brien family became citizens of separate countries. Within months India and Pakistan were at war. It was a conflict that tore apart my father's cousin, daughter of his uncle who had stayed on in Pakistan. Her husband was a fighter pilot in the Indian Air Force, her brother-in-law a fighter pilot in the Pakistan Air Force. Night after night she stayed up, wondering if her husband would come home or if her brother-in-law was safe-or if these two men so dear to her, comrades and friends in the same air force till a few weeks earlier, would aim for each other in the eerie anonymity of the skies. Thankfully neither died in that war, but a distance emerged. Father and daughter, brother and sister, cousin and cousin, my Indian grandfather and his Pakistani brother-they lost touch with each other. Today, those times seem so far away. My brothers and I grew up in a very different environment in the 1970s and 1980s. We were not just a minority, we often joked, but a minority in a minority in a minority: Roman Catholics among Anglo-Indians among Indian Christians. Javed Khan, a friend and colleague in the Trinamool Congress, once told me in a lighter moment that Muslims were the "majority minority" and we Christians the "minority minority".

If you want a happy minority, create a happy society. If you construct a society with paranoia, pessimism and deprivation, you will never have a happy minority. Beyond those laughs, what does it mean to be a minority in India? Frankly, I don't think I can give a complete answer and I doubt anyone can. I will try and explain it, though, from three angles-that of my family and me; my community; and the larger social contract between religious minorities and the nation we have built. These are reflections based on my experiences. They may or may not speak for everybody, but I hope they will explain in some measure the miracle of an India that allows someone from a minuscule minority to enter Parliament as representative of a largely Bengali party.
I grew up in the only Christian family in a middle-class, predominantly Bengali-Hindu neighbourhood in Kolkata, living, in one of those ironies that make India just so captivating, in a lane named after a Muslim. There were three of us, three boys. From the beginning there was a need to fit in-not from the people next door, but from our own parents. We were encouraged to learn the local language.

We lived in Kolkata and so the language we learnt was Bengali. If we'd lived in Jalandhar, we would have learnt Punjabi. Was this a defensive gesture? I don't think so. India is an inclusive society, but that inclusiveness is as much for the minority to demand as for the minority to demonstrate. Learning the local language is an important step- and this is as true for a Kerala Christian in Kolkata as for a Punjabi Hindu in Kochi. Sometimes we stand out only because we want to stand out.
Not everybody in our community saw things as my parents did. Many insisted on speaking in English and in a pidgin Hindi. Some decided India was not for them and migrated. The numbers in our churches and community gatherings declined. The Railways, the Post and Telegraph Department, the Indian school system-all those great institutions that had been Anglo-Indian bastions began to acquire a different flavour. The mood was downbeat.

It began to change in the mid-1990s, as the Indian economy started to grow, throwing up new opportunities particularly in the services sector. Suddenly the very qualities that had made Anglo-Indians seem aloof, including their use of the English language, made them eminently employable. Today's youth from my community are a far more confident lot and believe they have a greater stake in India. The skill-sets are the same, but the mindsets have changed, both internally and externally.

For me, the message is clear enough: If you want a happy minority, create a happy society, with opportunity, hope and aspiration for everybody. If you construct a society with paranoia, pessimism and deprivation, you will not have a happy people-and never a happy minority.
When discussing minorities, most discourse inevitably focuses on violence and religious riots. There is the argument that a system that is minority-friendly protects, for example, Muslims and Christians from violence. While not disagreeing, I find this argument limiting and a little tiresome.
Security of life, limb and belief are not a privilege of a minority; they are an entitlement of every citizen. In providing them to its minorities, a government is not doing anybody a favour. It is only fulfilling its fundamental duty. To see minority rights from solely such a narrow prism is to my mind self-defeating.


Postscript: In the year 1984, my brother Andy, then a sports journalist, travelled to Karachi for hockey's Champions Trophy. He was determined to trace the lost O'Briens of Pakistan. Eventually he found them and renewed contact. My father's uncle was dead, but the rest of the family was still there and greeted their Indian cousin very warmly. Most of my father's generation and all of the next generation-my second cousins-had converted to Islam. The pressure had been too much. Being a minority in Pakistan was tough business.
Andy came home and told us the strange and sombre story of the Muslim Anglo-Indian clan of Lahore and Karachi. We sat in silence, still digesting it. I thought of our life in India, the freedom to go to church, the freedom to practise my faith, the freedom to be myself, the freedom that my country gave its minorities. I've never felt prouder of being an Indian.
 
Derek O'Brien
derek_081112125914.jpg


Excellent read

For obvious reasons, the narrative of Partition has been written in terms of the subcontinent's Hindus and Muslims. Christians have had only a small role in this drama. Anglo-Indians-the community I belong to and which makes up a minuscule section of India's Christians-have had just a walk-on part. Yet Partition had a dramatic impact on my extended family. My paternal grandfather was one of three brothers. The eldest of them was a civil servant who worked in Lahore and Peshawar, and served as private secretary to Sir Olaf Caroe, governor of the Northwest Frontier Province in the tumultuous days leading up to August 1947. Much of the rest of the family, including my father and grandfather, were in Kolkata (or Calcutta, as it was then called). One day, without quite realising its implications, these wings of the O'Brien family became citizens of separate countries. Within months India and Pakistan were at war. It was a conflict that tore apart my father's cousin, daughter of his uncle who had stayed on in Pakistan. Her husband was a fighter pilot in the Indian Air Force, her brother-in-law a fighter pilot in the Pakistan Air Force. Night after night she stayed up, wondering if her husband would come home or if her brother-in-law was safe-or if these two men so dear to her, comrades and friends in the same air force till a few weeks earlier, would aim for each other in the eerie anonymity of the skies. Thankfully neither died in that war, but a distance emerged. Father and daughter, brother and sister, cousin and cousin, my Indian grandfather and his Pakistani brother-they lost touch with each other. Today, those times seem so far away. My brothers and I grew up in a very different environment in the 1970s and 1980s. We were not just a minority, we often joked, but a minority in a minority in a minority: Roman Catholics among Anglo-Indians among Indian Christians. Javed Khan, a friend and colleague in the Trinamool Congress, once told me in a lighter moment that Muslims were the "majority minority" and we Christians the "minority minority".

If you want a happy minority, create a happy society. If you construct a society with paranoia, pessimism and deprivation, you will never have a happy minority. Beyond those laughs, what does it mean to be a minority in India? Frankly, I don't think I can give a complete answer and I doubt anyone can. I will try and explain it, though, from three angles-that of my family and me; my community; and the larger social contract between religious minorities and the nation we have built. These are reflections based on my experiences. They may or may not speak for everybody, but I hope they will explain in some measure the miracle of an India that allows someone from a minuscule minority to enter Parliament as representative of a largely Bengali party.
I grew up in the only Christian family in a middle-class, predominantly Bengali-Hindu neighbourhood in Kolkata, living, in one of those ironies that make India just so captivating, in a lane named after a Muslim. There were three of us, three boys. From the beginning there was a need to fit in-not from the people next door, but from our own parents. We were encouraged to learn the local language.

We lived in Kolkata and so the language we learnt was Bengali. If we'd lived in Jalandhar, we would have learnt Punjabi. Was this a defensive gesture? I don't think so. India is an inclusive society, but that inclusiveness is as much for the minority to demand as for the minority to demonstrate. Learning the local language is an important step- and this is as true for a Kerala Christian in Kolkata as for a Punjabi Hindu in Kochi. Sometimes we stand out only because we want to stand out.
Not everybody in our community saw things as my parents did. Many insisted on speaking in English and in a pidgin Hindi. Some decided India was not for them and migrated. The numbers in our churches and community gatherings declined. The Railways, the Post and Telegraph Department, the Indian school system-all those great institutions that had been Anglo-Indian bastions began to acquire a different flavour. The mood was downbeat.

It began to change in the mid-1990s, as the Indian economy started to grow, throwing up new opportunities particularly in the services sector. Suddenly the very qualities that had made Anglo-Indians seem aloof, including their use of the English language, made them eminently employable. Today's youth from my community are a far more confident lot and believe they have a greater stake in India. The skill-sets are the same, but the mindsets have changed, both internally and externally.

For me, the message is clear enough: If you want a happy minority, create a happy society, with opportunity, hope and aspiration for everybody. If you construct a society with paranoia, pessimism and deprivation, you will not have a happy people-and never a happy minority.
When discussing minorities, most discourse inevitably focuses on violence and religious riots. There is the argument that a system that is minority-friendly protects, for example, Muslims and Christians from violence. While not disagreeing, I find this argument limiting and a little tiresome.
Security of life, limb and belief are not a privilege of a minority; they are an entitlement of every citizen. In providing them to its minorities, a government is not doing anybody a favour. It is only fulfilling its fundamental duty. To see minority rights from solely such a narrow prism is to my mind self-defeating.


Postscript: In the year 1984, my brother Andy, then a sports journalist, travelled to Karachi for hockey's Champions Trophy. He was determined to trace the lost O'Briens of Pakistan. Eventually he found them and renewed contact. My father's uncle was dead, but the rest of the family was still there and greeted their Indian cousin very warmly. Most of my father's generation and all of the next generation-my second cousins-had converted to Islam. The pressure had been too much. Being a minority in Pakistan was tough business.
Andy came home and told us the strange and sombre story of the Muslim Anglo-Indian clan of Lahore and Karachi. We sat in silence, still digesting it. I thought of our life in India, the freedom to go to church, the freedom to practise my faith, the freedom to be myself, the freedom that my country gave its minorities. I've never felt prouder of being an Indian.

I am myself a Christian from Kerala and my great great grandfather was a born Christian as per the family documents so the conversion took place sometime before that which means we have a Christian background and history of more than 200 years at least.
So I couldn't agree more with Derek & Andy whom I have met during my college days in Kolkata thru a friend who was working in sportstar.
What forced me to comment is that fact that this wonderful country of which I am a very proud citizen has been like a mother to all. Now when you say country you can't leave out the majority of the people who for centuries are Hindus. Hinduism to me is not a religion it is my culture and second nature it makes me a better Christian and an even better human being. I was born in one part of the country and travelled around the country as I grew up but not for once have faced any prejudice or bias on basis of my religious beliefs.
Now when I travel around the globe for work and pleasure the sweetest moment is when my plane hits the Indian soil my eyes swell up it happens every single time...There can be exceptions for people who look for them but the fact that all religious minorities have equal opportunities to all avenues of growth and prosperity and in some cases more than the majority community speaks volumes about my country and its people.
Now it is the sole discretion of any religious minority or community to be part of this great nation and all inclusive growth or to stand out just for the sake of standing out to prove they are different. The children can afford to be obstinate sometimes but the mother is always full of love care and affection and ready to overlook their past transgressions and embrace them all over again. The mother in this context is MOTHER INDIA….love you.
 
Studied in an Anglo Indian school and have many Anglo Indian friends. Some of them have moved to Australia, many have benefitted from the Indian economy opening up and have made use of their English speaking skills and atleast three of them ended up in HR departments of different companies . Couple of them have represented India at the highest level in Junior hockey.
 
you know mahabali, my life and experience is somewhat similar to yours
 
Its why thousands of Indian Muslims migrate to Pakistan every day :lol:
 
I know this half pakistani and half Irish girl, my god she is hot! usually south asian mixes with europeans really come out beautiful
 
Postscript: In the year 1984, my brother Andy, then a sports journalist, travelled to Karachi for hockey's Champions Trophy. He was determined to trace the lost O'Briens of Pakistan. Eventually he found them and renewed contact. My father's uncle was dead, but the rest of the family was still there and greeted their Indian cousin very warmly. Most of my father's generation and all of the next generation-my second cousins-had converted to Islam. The pressure had been too much. Being a minority in Pakistan was tough business.
Andy came home and told us the strange and sombre story of the Muslim Anglo-Indian clan of Lahore and Karachi. We sat in silence, still digesting it. I thought of our life in India, the freedom to go to church, the freedom to practise my faith, the freedom to be myself, the freedom that my country gave its minorities. I've never felt prouder of being an Indian.

This excerpt really says all that needs to be said about India. Thank you Derek O Brien for your write-up on your experience. India is amazing :cheers:
 
Its why thousands of Indian Muslims migrate to Pakistan every day :lol:

Lets Cut your Rhetoric . Instead of Thousands lets consider a Thousand Immigrate every day. Now Dear Poster with Very High Intelligence Quotient Please Show me any statistics from Pakistan Government or United Nations which Says 3,65,000 Muslims Migrate from India to Pakistan every year .

Also Do not Try to sidestep this question with some stupid off topic Rant .

regards .
 
now that the toll posts have been removed, can we discuss the topic at hand?
 
Derek O'Brien
derek_081112125914.jpg


Excellent read

For obvious reasons, the narrative of Partition has been written in terms of the subcontinent's Hindus and Muslims. Christians have had only a small role in this drama. Anglo-Indians-the community I belong to and which makes up a minuscule section of India's Christians-have had just a walk-on part. Yet Partition had a dramatic impact on my extended family. My paternal grandfather was one of three brothers. The eldest of them was a civil servant who worked in Lahore and Peshawar, and served as private secretary to Sir Olaf Caroe, governor of the Northwest Frontier Province in the tumultuous days leading up to August 1947. Much of the rest of the family, including my father and grandfather, were in Kolkata (or Calcutta, as it was then called). One day, without quite realising its implications, these wings of the O'Brien family became citizens of separate countries. Within months India and Pakistan were at war. It was a conflict that tore apart my father's cousin, daughter of his uncle who had stayed on in Pakistan. Her husband was a fighter pilot in the Indian Air Force, her brother-in-law a fighter pilot in the Pakistan Air Force. Night after night she stayed up, wondering if her husband would come home or if her brother-in-law was safe-or if these two men so dear to her, comrades and friends in the same air force till a few weeks earlier, would aim for each other in the eerie anonymity of the skies. Thankfully neither died in that war, but a distance emerged. Father and daughter, brother and sister, cousin and cousin, my Indian grandfather and his Pakistani brother-they lost touch with each other. Today, those times seem so far away. My brothers and I grew up in a very different environment in the 1970s and 1980s. We were not just a minority, we often joked, but a minority in a minority in a minority: Roman Catholics among Anglo-Indians among Indian Christians. Javed Khan, a friend and colleague in the Trinamool Congress, once told me in a lighter moment that Muslims were the "majority minority" and we Christians the "minority minority".

If you want a happy minority, create a happy society. If you construct a society with paranoia, pessimism and deprivation, you will never have a happy minority. Beyond those laughs, what does it mean to be a minority in India? Frankly, I don't think I can give a complete answer and I doubt anyone can. I will try and explain it, though, from three angles-that of my family and me; my community; and the larger social contract between religious minorities and the nation we have built. These are reflections based on my experiences. They may or may not speak for everybody, but I hope they will explain in some measure the miracle of an India that allows someone from a minuscule minority to enter Parliament as representative of a largely Bengali party.
I grew up in the only Christian family in a middle-class, predominantly Bengali-Hindu neighbourhood in Kolkata, living, in one of those ironies that make India just so captivating, in a lane named after a Muslim. There were three of us, three boys. From the beginning there was a need to fit in-not from the people next door, but from our own parents. We were encouraged to learn the local language.

We lived in Kolkata and so the language we learnt was Bengali. If we'd lived in Jalandhar, we would have learnt Punjabi. Was this a defensive gesture? I don't think so. India is an inclusive society, but that inclusiveness is as much for the minority to demand as for the minority to demonstrate. Learning the local language is an important step- and this is as true for a Kerala Christian in Kolkata as for a Punjabi Hindu in Kochi. Sometimes we stand out only because we want to stand out.
Not everybody in our community saw things as my parents did. Many insisted on speaking in English and in a pidgin Hindi. Some decided India was not for them and migrated. The numbers in our churches and community gatherings declined. The Railways, the Post and Telegraph Department, the Indian school system-all those great institutions that had been Anglo-Indian bastions began to acquire a different flavour. The mood was downbeat.

It began to change in the mid-1990s, as the Indian economy started to grow, throwing up new opportunities particularly in the services sector. Suddenly the very qualities that had made Anglo-Indians seem aloof, including their use of the English language, made them eminently employable. Today's youth from my community are a far more confident lot and believe they have a greater stake in India. The skill-sets are the same, but the mindsets have changed, both internally and externally.

For me, the message is clear enough: If you want a happy minority, create a happy society, with opportunity, hope and aspiration for everybody. If you construct a society with paranoia, pessimism and deprivation, you will not have a happy people-and never a happy minority.
When discussing minorities, most discourse inevitably focuses on violence and religious riots. There is the argument that a system that is minority-friendly protects, for example, Muslims and Christians from violence. While not disagreeing, I find this argument limiting and a little tiresome.
Security of life, limb and belief are not a privilege of a minority; they are an entitlement of every citizen. In providing them to its minorities, a government is not doing anybody a favour. It is only fulfilling its fundamental duty. To see minority rights from solely such a narrow prism is to my mind self-defeating.


Postscript: In the year 1984, my brother Andy, then a sports journalist, travelled to Karachi for hockey's Champions Trophy. He was determined to trace the lost O'Briens of Pakistan. Eventually he found them and renewed contact. My father's uncle was dead, but the rest of the family was still there and greeted their Indian cousin very warmly. Most of my father's generation and all of the next generation-my second cousins-had converted to Islam. The pressure had been too much. Being a minority in Pakistan was tough business.
Andy came home and told us the strange and sombre story of the Muslim Anglo-Indian clan of Lahore and Karachi. We sat in silence, still digesting it. I thought of our life in India, the freedom to go to church, the freedom to practise my faith, the freedom to be myself, the freedom that my country gave its minorities. I've never felt prouder of being an Indian.
I am from Pakistan, Anglo Indian, born and raised in Karachi. It is strange to hear that some of your relatives had to convert to Islam. Never heard of this among the Angli Indian community. Only time this would happen if a Muslim man married a Christian girl (whether AI or other Christian) This must have been a rare case, and certainly didn't happen in my time.
 
I am from Pakistan, Anglo Indian, born and raised in Karachi. It is strange to hear that some of your relatives had to convert to Islam. Never heard of this among the Angli Indian community. Only time this would happen if a Muslim man married a Christian girl (whether AI or other Christian) This must have been a rare case, and certainly didn't happen in my time.

If you are from Karachi, it is strange that you claim yourself as Anglo-Indian rather than Anglo-Pakistani. It reflects where your loyalities are.
 
If you are from Karachi, it is strange that you claim yourself as Anglo-Indian rather than Anglo-Pakistani. It reflects where your loyalities are.
It is an ethnonym from pre-1947 that has carried on. Like Parsis / Iranis in India. Does not mean that they owe allegience to Iran
 
Back
Top Bottom