Ancient Pakistan - Kharosthi Script

[defence_analyst]

LOL!! Taxila? WTF? The capital was initially Charssadda, and during the Kushans (i.e. only it's golden era) the capital was moved to Peshawar. For most of Gandhara's history, the capital was Peshawar. It was never Taxila.

Sorry punju... you need to be happy with your own history, instead of stealing from others.

Stop getting butt hurt. Gandhara was not ancient name of Peshawar as you said so not sure how to take your claims on face value without any source. According to Bhuddist Jatakas, Gandhara capital was Taxila. Not that it matter because I doubt capital back then meant anything. What we know for sure is that Taxila was very important city along with others like Peshawar for Gandhara.

 

[Narcissist]

Stop getting butt hurt.

Look who's talking. Pointing out what is either an error, a glaring oversight, or a fabrication is not butt hurt.

Gandhara was not ancient name of Peshawar as you said so not sure how to take your claims on face value without any source. According to Bhuddist Jatakas, Gandhara capital was Taxila.

Again, look who's talking. Why do you expect me to provide a source, but absolve yourself from the same responsibility? Please provide a source that Taxila was the capital. A casual Google search will easily verify my claims. There are documentaries you can find on youtube that will also further verify my claims. The documentary narrators state clearly it's Peshawar. Gandhara civilization and Peshawar were almost interchangeable. Here's a source for you:

The Kushans were a tribe that migrated to Gandhara around the 1st century CE from Central Asia and Afghanistan. The tribe selected Peshawar as its seat of power and later expanded east into the heartland of India to establish the Kushan Empire, which lasted until the 3rd century CE.

http://www.ancient.eu/Gandhara_Civilization/

Not that it matter because I doubt capital back then meant anything. What we know for sure is that Taxila was very important city along with others like Peshawar for Gandhara.

I agree. Peshawar, Charssadda, Taxila, Kabul, and other places were all important cities in the Gandharan civilization... Taxila was regional capital under Mauryans. Note, regional capital, not capital of whole state.

http://tourism.kp.gov.pk/page/gandhara_tourism_1

Gandhara had 3 capitals. 1st was Charssadda. 2nd, and most prominent, was Peshawar. 3rd was Hund.

 

[defence_analyst]

Look who's talking. Pointing out what is either an error, a glaring oversight, or a fabrication is not butt hurt.



Again, look who's talking. Why do you expect me to provide a source, but absolve yourself from the same responsibility? Please provide a source that Taxila was the capital. A casual Google search will easily verify my claims. There are documentaries you can find on youtube that will also further verify my claims. The documentary narrators state clearly it's Peshawar. Gandhara civilization and Peshawar were almost interchangeable. Here's a source for you:

The Kushans were a tribe that migrated to Gandhara around the 1st century CE from Central Asia and Afghanistan. The tribe selected Peshawar as its seat of power and later expanded east into the heartland of India to establish the Kushan Empire, which lasted until the 3rd century CE.

http://www.ancient.eu/Gandhara_Civilization/



I agree. Peshawar, Charssadda, Taxila, Kabul, and other places were all important cities in the Gandharan civilization... Taxila was regional capital under Mauryans. Note, regional capital, not capital of whole state.

http://tourism.kp.gov.pk/page/gandhara_tourism_1

Gandhara had 3 capitals. 1st was Charssadda. 2nd, and most prominent, was Peshawar. 3rd was Hund.

If you read link you posted. Taxila is mentioned as most important city of Gandhara. Maybe OP isn't that off. Political capital was being changed by various invaders.

http://www.ancient.eu/Gandhara_Civilization/

Gandhara culture remained intact till White Huns when people gradually moved towards Hinduism which resulted in decline. Also keep in mind Gandhara isn't kingdom but cultural region with Bhuddism as religion .

POLITICAL CONTROL
Taxila and the region of Gandhara witnessed the rule of several major powers of antiquity as listed here:

• Achaemenids (~600-400 BCE)
• Greeks (~326-324 BCE),
• Mauryans (~324-185 BCE),
• Indo-Greeks (~250-190 BCE),
• Scythians (~2nd century to 1st century BCE),
• Parthians (~1st century BC to 1st century CE),
• Kushans (~1st to 5th century CE),
• White Huns (~5th century CE)
• Hindu Shahi (~9th to 10th century CE).

Kushans

Following another approximate century of rule by the Parthians, there was another invasion in 50 CE by the Kushans, who were a branch of the North Western Chinese Yue-Chi tribes and they conquered the Kabul Valley and Gandhara. Their heyday was in the time of Kanishka (c. 78 CE) who was their most renowned emperor and the Kushan empire (of which Gandhara was an important center) stretched from Merve in the west to Khotan in the east with the Aral sea bounding the north and the Arabian sea at the south. Two other prominent successors of Kanishka were Huvishka and Vasudeva.

WHITE HUNS
The Kidarites managed to maintain a hold of the region, carrying on the traditions of their predecessors the Kushans up to the middle of the 5th Cent CE when the White Huns or Hephthalites, invaded the region. As Buddhism and by extension the Gandhara culture was already at an ebb by this time, the invasion caused both physical destruction and, due to the Huns' adoption of the Shivite faith (most especially of their ruler Mihirakula) and by extension the culture of the Hindu Gupta empire which at this time was ascendant, the importance of Buddhism began to wane with even more speed.

During the White Hun invasions, the religious character of the region shifted gradually towards Hinduism and Buddhism was shunned in the favor of Hinduism as it was deemed politically expedient by the White Hun rulers since they sought to make alliances with the Hindu Gupta Empire against the Sassanids to the West. The change in religious character (which was the basis of all social life) led to a decline in the prosperity of the Gandhara region as a whole.

 

[Narcissist]

@Gunah-e-Kabira - have some dignity and just admit you and the OP are wrong. It's not that big a deal. OP knew it at least, he did it on purpose... but you're just making desperate attempts now. It's embarrassing. The fact that I'm not tearing you to shreds is because I feel so sorry for you.

You even changed the description under "Political control" to add "Taxila and" in front of everything. How old are you? 12? 13?

 

[defence_analyst]

@Gunah-e-Kabira - have some dignity and just admit you and the OP are wrong. It's not that big a deal. OP knew it at least, he did it on purpose... but you're just making desperate attempts now. It's embarrassing. The fact that I'm not tearing you to shreds is because I feel so sorry for you.

You even changed the description under "Political control" to add "Taxila and" in front of everything. How old are you? 12? 13?

I didn't change anything, copy pasted from website you posted. Gandhara was not kingdom but region with common culture and religion which was invaded many times through out history. Gandhara was Buddhist civilisation which declined after White Huns invaders adopted hinduism. Taxila was no doubt most important city of Gandhara civilization as per historical sources.

here is from where I copied just in case
http://www.ancient.eu/taxila/

OP doesn't say taxila was capital of Gandhara because that would imply Gandhara is kingdom. He wrote Pakistan capital is near Taxila. As far as being capital, as you said when Mauryas ruled they made Taxila capital. When Ambhi of Alexander era was ruler then also Taxila was capital. So it's not like Taxila never was capital.

 

[t_for_talli]

Yeh. Yeh. Go on a fantasy trip. So they all bought Air India tickets and moved to Mumbai slums. I know.


So we have. What business is that of yours. Non. If I convert to Christiniaty tomorrow I don't lose my rights to my dads property or heritage. Everything changes over time. Look at the Greeks. Look at the Egyptians.

Property and Culture are two different things, there is nothing common in IVC and current day Pakistan.

If you convert to Christianity you loose your belief in Allah, the trust in Quran but not your Car or Home. Comparing culture (belief, trust, way of life) with a tangible asset is wrong.

Turks / Palestinian lands dont drive Christianity but Vatican does, because Culture/ Belief / Trust/ way of life is carried forward by some one else and not the incumbents

 

[Han Patriot]

Property and Culture are two different things, there is nothing common in IVC and current day Pakistan.

If you convert to Christianity you loose your belief in Allah, the trust in Quran but not your Car or Home. Comparing culture (belief, trust, way of life) with a tangible asset is wrong.

Turks / Palestinian lands dont drive Christianity but Vatican does, because Culture/ Belief / Trust/ way of life is carried forward by some one else and not the incumbents

I guess the Egyptians can't claim the Pyramids and their cultural artifacts as their own now? Do you know certain ancient Chinese practices and the old Han clothing were preserved by Japan, does it mean those are not Chinese heritage? The same goes for Pakistan, they are the inheritors of the IVC, not India, just because they don't believe in idol worshiping, doesn't make them less native than you. In Shang dynasty, we sacrificed servants with the Kings, we don't do it now, does it mean I am not Chinese? Religion and civilization are two different things, religion is a part of civilization, you may change your religion but not your civilization.

 

[Mugwop]

Property and Culture are two different things, there is nothing common in IVC and current day Pakistan.

If you convert to Christianity you loose your belief in Allah, the trust in Quran but not your Car or Home. Comparing culture (belief, trust, way of life) with a tangible asset is wrong.

Turks / Palestinian lands dont drive Christianity but Vatican does, because Culture/ Belief / Trust/ way of life is carried forward by some one else and not the incumbents

IVC had hospitality,ate beef,buried their dead which is common in Pakistanis.
indians on the other hand are the most racist humans to ever exist in mankind.

 

[t_for_talli]

I guess the Egyptians can't claim the Pyramids and their cultural artifacts as their own now? Do you know certain ancient Chinese practices and the old Han clothing were preserved by Japan, does it mean those are not Chinese heritage? The same goes for Pakistan, they are the inheritors of the IVC, not India, just because they don't believe in idol worshiping, doesn't make them less native than you. In Shang dynasty, we sacrificed servants with the Kings, we don't do it now, does it mean I am not Chinese? Religion and civilization are two different things, religion is a part of civilization, you may change your religion but not your civilization.

Tangible assets are passed, culture belief is passed to those who follow, It reflects in the ways of life.
Arabs donot claim Judaism or their culture because that a taken forward by Jews settled in US / Europe later moved to Israel.

Egyptians can claim pyramids, but not culture (Egypts case is different because no one if there to follow culture of older time so it can be attributed to them) however the Christianity is claimed / driven by Europe in medieval times event though its ancestory is in Middle east / Arab

Kung Fu : "In 495 AD, Shaolin temple was built in the Song mountain, Henan province. The first monk who preached Buddhism there was the Indian monk named Buddhabhadra(佛陀跋陀罗; Fótuóbátuóluó), simply called Batuo (跋陀) by the Chinese. "

But Indians never claim Kung Fu because its not part of life of current day Indians. The same way

 

[Han Patriot]

Tangible assets are passed, culture belief is passed to those who follow, It reflects in the ways of life.
Arabs donot claim Judaism or their culture because that a taken forward by Jews settled in US / Europe later moved to Israel.

Egyptians can claim pyramids, but not culture (Egypts case is different because no one if there to follow culture of older time so it can be attributed to them) however the Christianity is claimed / driven by Europe in medieval times event though its ancestory is in Middle east / Arab

Kung Fu : "In 495 AD, Shaolin temple was built in the Song mountain, Henan province. The first monk who preached Buddhism there was the Indian monk named Buddhabhadra(佛陀跋陀罗; Fótuóbátuóluó), simply called Batuo (跋陀) by the Chinese. "

But Indians never claim Kung Fu because its not part of life of current day Indians. The same way

Bro before you go on, Kungfu was not invented in Shaolin, Shaolin is one of the schools of Kungfu and a popular school. The monk founded the temple and thought Buddhism not Kungfu, but because over the centuries, there were attacks by rebels/soldiers, etc, the monks there developed their own defence techniques. There was never an India in the first place. You can say someone from South Asia not India.

Judaism did not come from Arabs, they were related to the Jews and were originally people of the same faith but they claim the Jews did not follow the original commandments.

Culture is passed down, not necessary religion bro. Pakistanis are cultural inheritors of both the Mughals, Indus and Persians. That's their heritage. I might be Christian or Muslim but I am still Chinese.

 

[t_for_talli]

Bro before you go on, Kungfu was not invented in Shaolin, Shaolin is one of the schools of Kungfu and a popular school. The monk founded the temple and thought Buddhism not Kungfu, but because over the centuries, there were attacks by rebels/soldiers, etc, the monks there developed their own defence techniques. There was never an India in the first place. You can say someone from South Asia not India.

Judaism did not come from Arabs, they were related to the Jews and were originally people of the same faith but they claim the Jews did not follow the original commandments.

Culture is passed down, not necessary religion bro. Pakistanis are cultural inheritors of both the Mughals, Indus and Persians. That's their heritage. I might be Christian or Muslim but I am still Chinese.

Agreed culture is passed on, Land tangible assets remain and can be taken by any one but passed on culture reflects in way o life

Now Go do some research, look at life styles/ beliefs/ daily habits/ language/ script/ food/ clothing/ facial hairs/ living style and figure out if it has passed or not, and if passed then passed to whom (Pakistanis or someone else)

Example Khan is common surname inAfganistan, India , Pakistan but present day Khans in the region have nothing to do with mongol-culture or Ghengis Khan (its just a name, like a piece of land , like a building occupied by some one who has nothing to do with the values of the culture dusing which the building was constructed )

 

[Han Patriot]

Agreed culture is passed on, Land tangible assets remain and can be taken by any one but passed on culture reflects in way o life

Now Go do some research, look at life styles/ beliefs/ daily habits/ language/ script/ food/ clothing/ facial hairs/ living style and figure out if it has passed or not, and if passed then passed to whom (Pakistanis or someone else)

The Pakistanis apart from not eating pork and writing in Brahmi script speak Urdu, the cuisine is the same, the arts and culture is the same. Clothing is Northern style of South Asia except for sexy saree, even that peacock hat is so typically Punjabi. They are the heirs of Indus, same like certain Northern Indian states, but definitely not Dravidians.

 

[Kambojaric]

LOL!! Taxila? WTF? The capital was initially Charssadda, and during the Kushans (i.e. only it's golden era) the capital was moved to Peshawar. For most of Gandhara's history, the capital was Peshawar. It was never Taxila.

Taxila was a part of Gandhara (but also the Mauryan empire), but to claim it was the capital is stealing heritage and lying about the past. If you want to lie to yourself, be my guest. But some people come here thinking a long winded diatribe is indicative of intellectual authority. Such is certainly not necessary, and flaws should be pointed out. The sad part is, the rest of the opening post was pretty decent. The location of capital was way off the mark though. Not to mention there was no mention of Peshawar. It destroys the value of the entire initial post.

"The first three of the Saka (Scythian) kings were Maues, Azes 1, and Azilises. Gandhara was their principal stronghold and Taxila their capital."

page 33, A Brief History of Pakistan by James Wynbrandt

"c. 189 AD: Demetrius succeeds his father Euthydemus and proceeds to the conquest of Gandhara, the Panjab an the Indus Valley. He makes his capital at Taxila."

page 41, A Guide to Taxila by John Marshall

From the Kushana era (Kanishka) the capital is moved to Peshawar.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Property and Culture are two different things, there is nothing common in IVC and current day Pakistan.

There is nothing in common I have with my grandad. He spoke another language, he was iliterate, he was religious, he was farmer, he wore other clothes, he never went beyond confines of village. Me - I am opposite of him in every conceivable way. But he is still my grandad and I would say "fcuk" to any Gangoo telling me otherwise.

Got the point? If I have have strayed from my grandad's ways it's no business of some Ganga from Bihar or Dravid from Chennai to start sniffing on my heritage. Go find the deeds of your own ancestors.

 

[nautilaceae]

Bro before you go on, Kungfu was not invented in Shaolin, Shaolin is one of the schools of Kungfu and a popular school. The monk founded the temple and thought Buddhism not Kungfu, but because over the centuries, there were attacks by rebels/soldiers, etc, the monks there developed their own defence techniques. There was never an India in the first place. You can say someone from South Asia not India.

Judaism did not come from Arabs, they were related to the Jews and were originally people of the same faith but they claim the Jews did not follow the original commandments.

Culture is passed down, not necessary religion bro. Pakistanis are cultural inheritors of both the Mughals, Indus and Persians. That's their heritage. I might be Christian or Muslim but I am still Chinese.

You're right. The main tenet of Buddhism is anti-violent. No monks practice fighting arts whether in Tibet, Sri Lanka or any monastery. In China, martial arts tradition/lifestyle got mixed into religions like Taoism, Buddhism, even Islam. Chinese Muslims have their martial arts, as I was told.