"Ancient India" was in Pakistan region, not present-day India.

[scorpionx]

Above exposes why I sometimes think there is no point in discussing with you guy's. You Indian's really treat the word "Pakistan" like a swear word. Just look at the duplicity on your part. You move from using names of provinces, Balochistan, Kashmir then you zoom out and use India. What was wrong with saying Pakistan? Would that have give you cardiac arrest? You either use zoom in and say, Balochistan, Kashmir, Bihar, Orrisa etc or use Pakistan and India. Look how you jumped around but avoided mentioning Pakistan.

I have no reservation in saying that the cradle of civilization IS in modern Pakistan nation state and NOT in modern Indian nation state.

@Post 133
Atanz Sahib, I already mentioned that major advance Mesolithic, Proto Neolithic and Neolithic settlements are all located west of Indus, in part of modern Pakistan. Nothing wrong in saying Pakistan, isn't?

Precisely what are you talking about? Links please?

To recapitulate of the contacts of the Neolithic cultures of these two regions (Swat valley and Kashmir) with that of China, we find unmistakable examples of two items of material equipment of the Yangshao culture of north China, namely the harvester (semi-lunar knife with holes) and jade beads which were included in the inventory of the Neolithic cultures, the Kashmir and Swat valley respectively.

Thus, the Mehrgarh materials find close analogies in the Jeitunian of southern Turkmenistan, as well as in several sites of northern Iran (Tepe Sang-i-Chakmak). Several features of the Neolithic cultures in the mountainous regions (e.g. semi-lunar knives) may be placed within the area of East Asian traditions. These may be seen as a reflection of cultural links, as well as common cultural traditions with the Xingjiang Neolithic cultures.

History of Civilizations of Central Asia: The Dawn of Civilization : Earliest Times to 700 B.C. : A. H. Dani : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[KingMamba]

Pretty selective map reading actually. Herodotus drew a map based upon his Persian sources and there river Indus flows eastward to the ocean. It is difficult to imagine that the source he was relying could see the desert but could not identify the direction of such a mighty river. I will take his description with a pinch of salt here. What seemed more plausible to me that the Persians on the bank of Jhelum (which actually falls on the ancient route to central Asia) must have been more accurately aware what lay beyond it than those sources who were wandering near Thar desert and gave Herodotus their version of story.

Plausibility is not certainty, I am sure you would agree.

 

[scorpionx]

Plausibility is not certainty, I am sure you would agree.

Off course not. At least I was much less certain than OP was

 

[KingMamba]

Enhhh?? Ab kya hua?
What did I do to earn your ire....again???
I was just saying that Brahui are a relict population of Dravidians, surrounded by speakers of Indo-Iranian languages, remaining from a time when Dravidian was more widespread (and may be later they were ousted from the region by the so called Aryans). Just FYI- There's no proof of Dravidian languages being related to any other language family. So presence of Brahui in Pakistan is not a mere co-incidence.

Most scholars post the introduction of the Brahui language long after the ancient era I am talking early 1000s AD,

 

[Srinivas]

sorry to burst your bubble and your low level of intellect, but 'melluhans' as they were reffered to then from harrappa and mohenjadaro were trading as far as mesopotamia 2-3000 years before vasco de gama was a twinkle in the eye of his daddy...

Harrapa Mohenjadaro civilization sites and ports are also located in Gujarat, Haryana. Lothal is a famous port where trade happened.

One of World's oldest port Lothal

51. World's Oldest Port - Lothal | Free chat, desi chat, india chat, video chat, voice chat, chat rooms

Look at the dates jahil, de Gama was before or after the Greeks and Darius? The Op is talking about what India meant durings its origin and you bring up what Euros thought it means hundreds of years later lmao.

If you people want to live in denial, I have no problem.

It was in the banks of Yamuna Great empires flourished which is where the center of gravity of Sub Continent lies.

 

[Levina]

Most scholars post the introduction of the Brahui language long after the ancient era I am talking early 1000s AD,

Let's start again....
Brahui is considered the mother of 7000yrs old Dravidan languages.

 

[Whirling_dervesh]

Harrapa Mohenjadaro civilization sites and ports are also located in Gujarat, Haryana. Lothal is a famous port where trade happened.

One of World's oldest port Lothal

51. World's Oldest Port - Lothal | Free chat, desi chat, india chat, video chat, voice chat, chat rooms



If you people want to live in denial, I have no problem.

It was in the banks of Yamuna Great empires flourished which is where the center of gravity of Sub Continent lies.

Just as the ancient Egyptians civilisation was to the great river Nile the same can be said for the Indus Valley civilisation. The bulk and heart of the great pyramids and tombs towns planning were in the main source and Nile settlements in Egypt while further settlements extended to the lower Nile riparian which extends further into Sudan. Further pyramids extend to Sudan in that lower riparian of the river Nile.

Similarly the bulk of major sites and cities of harrapan sites lie in the upper Indus and extend to the lower Indus riparian and out to the Arabian ocean. IVC constitutes virtually the whole of Pakistan whereas lothal and dholivara constitue 1% of India. We can safely say dholivara and lothal were an extension of ancient IVC much as what Sudanese Nile is an extension of the main Nile of Egypt which the world knows.

Your claim is at a par with sudans!

Just as the ancient Egyptians civilisation was to the great river Nile the same can be said for the Indus Valley civilisation. The bulk and heart of the great pyramids and tombs towns planning were in the main source and Nile settlements in Egypt while further settlements extended to the lower Nile riparian which extends further into Sudan. Further pyramids extend to Sudan in that lower riparian of the river Nile.

Similarly the bulk of major sites and cities of harrapan sites lie in the upper Indus and extend to the lower Indus riparian and out to the Arabian ocean. IVC constitutes virtually the whole of Pakistan whereas lothal and dholivara constitue 1% of India. We can safely say dholivara and lothal were an extension of ancient IVC much as what Sudanese Nile is an extension of the main Nile of Egypt which the world knows.

Your claim is at a par with sudans!

I doubt the great Pakistani IVC had thought of the Radcliffe boundaries

 

[Srinivas]

Just as the ancient Egyptians civilisation was to the great river Nile the same can be said for the Indus Valley civilisation. The bulk and heart of the great pyramids and tombs towns planning were in the main source and Nile settlements in Egypt while further settlements extended to the lower Nile riparian which extends further into Sudan. Further pyramids extend to Sudan in that lower riparian of the river Nile.

Similarly the bulk of major sites and cities of harrapan sites lie in the upper Indus and extend to the lower Indus riparian and out to the Arabian ocean. IVC constitutes virtually the whole of Pakistan whereas lothal and dholivara constitue 1% of India. We can safely say dholivara and lothal were an extension of ancient IVC much as what Sudanese Nile is an extension of the main Nile of Egypt which the world knows.

Your claim is at a par with sudans!




I doubt the great Pakistani IVC had thought of the Radcliffe boundaries

Not a valid argument considering adjacent areas of Nile are deserts, India has many rivers and the civlization spread through out the land. Sarswati, Ganga and Yamuna are equally important rivers in the scriptures.

 

[Levina]

Just as the ancient Egyptians civilisation was to the great river Nile the same can be said for the Indus Valley civilisation. The bulk and heart of the great pyramids and tombs towns planning were in the main source and Nile settlements in Egypt while further settlements extended to the lower Nile riparian which extends further into Sudan. Further pyramids extend to Sudan in that lower riparian of the river Nile.

Similarly the bulk of major sites and cities of harrapan sites lie in the upper Indus and extend to the lower Indus riparian and out to the Arabian ocean. IVC constitutes virtually the whole of Pakistan whereas lothal and dholivara constitue 1% of India. We can safely say dholivara and lothal were an extension of ancient IVC much as what Sudanese Nile is an extension of the main Nile of Egypt which the world knows.

Your claim is at a par with sudans!




I doubt the great Pakistani IVC had thought of the Radcliffe boundaries

You're somebody's duplicate ID!!
And I know whose.
FYI- @Srinivas

 

[Whirling_dervesh]

Not a valid argument considering adjacent areas of Nile are deserts, India has many rivers and the civlization spread through out the land. Sarswati, Ganga and Yamuna are equally important rivers in the scriptures.

What has deserts got to do with anything? We are looking at boundaries and and extension of river based civilisations. Egypt being upper Nile and Sudan being in the lower Nile riparian. Get with it

You're somebody's duplicate ID!!
And I know whose.
FYI- @Srinivas

Nobody's duplicate, your deluded

 

[Srinivas]

What has deserts got to do with anything? We are looking at boundaries and and extension of river based civilisations. Egypt being upper Nile and Sudan being in the lower Nile riparian. Get with it

Except that Egypt and Sudan(No civilization) has no commonality in civilization, not the case of Indian Sub continent.

 

[Shark2]

Very funny thread. All the great Dynasties in the history of South Asia were founded in
what is modern India like Maurya, Gupta, Chola, Vijayanagar, Mughal and Maratha Empires.
On the other hand Pakistan never had its own civilization as Pakistan was throughout its
history under the rule of foreign invaders.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Soanian Culture ?
Mehr Garh ?
Kulli ?
Zhob?
Harappa ?
Mohenjo Daro ?
Amri ?
Gandhara ?

and the Moghul came from the West in present day Pakistan captured Lahore thence moved into what is now India. At times Lahore served as the Moghul capital. So how no idea how you turn Central Asian dynasty that ruled us and you into exclusively yours. Is that another example of 'Oh because it was India'.

If my name is Alexander does that also make me Alexander?

 

[Whirling_dervesh]

Except that Egypt and Sudan(No civilization) has no commonality in civilization, not the case of Indian Sub continent.

Global Arab Network | Sudan’s pyramids, nearly as grand as Egypt’s, go unvisited | Travel | Travel


Wrong again....notice the similarities in this article to the 'long dried river' to the Indian claims. You have as much claim to IVC as the Sudan has to ancient Egyptian civilisation.




Pyramids at Meroe, some 200 kilometres north of Khartoum, are rarely visited despite being UNESCO World Heritage Site like those in Egypt.


The small, steep pyramids rising up from the desert hills of northern Sudan resemble those in neighbouring Egypt but, unlike the famed pyramids of Giza, the Sudanese site is largely deserted.

The pyramids at Meroe, some 200 kilometres north of Khartoum, are rarely visited despite being a UNESCO World Heritage Site like those in Egypt. Sanctions against the government of longtime President Omar al-Bashir over Sudan’s long-running internal conflicts limit its access to foreign aid and donations, while also hampering tourism.

The site, known as the Island of Meroe because an ancient, long-dried river ran around it, once served as the principle residence of the rulers of the Kush kingdom, known as the Black Pharaohs. Their pyramids, ranging from 6 metres to 30 metres tall, were built between 720 and 300 BC. The entrances usually face east to greet the rising sun.

The pyramids bear decorative elements inspired by pharaonic Egypt, Greece and Rome, according to UNESCO, making them priceless relics. However, overeager archaeologists in the 19th century tore off the golden tips of some pyramids and reduced some to rubble, said Abdel-Rahman Omar, the head of the National Museum of Sudan in Khartoum.

On a recent day, a few tourists and white camels roamed the site, watched by a handful of security guards. Sudan’s tourism industry has been devastated by economic sanctions imposed over the conflicts in Darfur and other regions. Al-Bashir’s government, which came to power following a bloodless Islamist coup in 1989, has struggled to care for its antiquities.

But Omar said Sudan receives just 15,000 tourists a year.

The Arab Weekly
(The Associated Press)

Tweet

Share

 

[Srinivas]

Those are Arab Bedouins they are wanderers. Egyptians are different to Arabs just like Pakistanis are different to Arabs Lol.

Egyptians are Sudanese do not come under one civilization But the region east of Indus come under one civilization. If you want to hug you brothers based on the new civilization that you people adopted from Arabs .... not an issue but what you are trying to do here is trying to rewrite the history that suits your narrative.,

Arabs do not have any prominent civilization until your prophet came and started his system. India's case is different you are arguing on behalf of a Pakistan which is on the western edge of Indian civilization.

Global Arab Network | Sudan’s pyramids, nearly as grand as Egypt’s, go unvisited | Travel | Travel


Wrong again....notice the similarities in this article to the 'long dried river' to the Indian claims. You have as much claim to IVC as the Sudan has to ancient Egyptian civilisation.




Pyramids at Meroe, some 200 kilometres north of Khartoum, are rarely visited despite being UNESCO World Heritage Site like those in Egypt.


The small, steep pyramids rising up from the desert hills of northern Sudan resemble those in neighbouring Egypt but, unlike the famed pyramids of Giza, the Sudanese site is largely deserted.

The pyramids at Meroe, some 200 kilometres north of Khartoum, are rarely visited despite being a UNESCO World Heritage Site like those in Egypt. Sanctions against the government of longtime President Omar al-Bashir over Sudan’s long-running internal conflicts limit its access to foreign aid and donations, while also hampering tourism.

The site, known as the Island of Meroe because an ancient, long-dried river ran around it, once served as the principle residence of the rulers of the Kush kingdom, known as the Black Pharaohs. Their pyramids, ranging from 6 metres to 30 metres tall, were built between 720 and 300 BC. The entrances usually face east to greet the rising sun.

The pyramids bear decorative elements inspired by pharaonic Egypt, Greece and Rome, according to UNESCO, making them priceless relics. However, overeager archaeologists in the 19th century tore off the golden tips of some pyramids and reduced some to rubble, said Abdel-Rahman Omar, the head of the National Museum of Sudan in Khartoum.

On a recent day, a few tourists and white camels roamed the site, watched by a handful of security guards. Sudan’s tourism industry has been devastated by economic sanctions imposed over the conflicts in Darfur and other regions. Al-Bashir’s government, which came to power following a bloodless Islamist coup in 1989, has struggled to care for its antiquities.

But Omar said Sudan receives just 15,000 tourists a year.

The Arab Weekly
(The Associated Press)

Tweet

Share