Ancient India in the time of the Mahabharata

[Halaku Khan]

India, that is Bharat, is more properly understood as a civilization rather than as a region or a nation-state.

This is the civilization that includes the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Mahabharata and the Bhagavad Gita, sciences like Ayurveda, Astronomy and Mathematics, Raja Yoga and Hatha Yoga, the Sanskrit language, people like Panini of Gandhara, Adi Shankara of Kerala, Gautama Buddha of Bihar/Nepal, and sages like Patanjali, Agastya and Valmiki.

Civilizational legacy is transmitted neither through geography nor through genes - but through culture, knowledge, philosophy and outlook.

Title edited to better reflect the distinction between Ancient India as a region and India as the nation state created in 1947.

 

[Awesome]

You missed the point. Political boundaries of kingdoms change, empires rise and fall. But there is a civilizational bond between Adi Shankara of Kerala and Panini of Gandhara.

That bond obviously is not shared by people who say "Pakistan ka matlab kya - la Ilaha Illalah". The people shouting that slogan might have names like Cheema, Bhat, Janjua and so on. But they have cut themselves off civilizationally from Hindus and Sikhs with the same surnames.

It is only because of religion that West Punjab and East Bengal were joined in one political entity, which partly broke up in 1971. It is only because of religion that the Muhajirs from UP and and Jinnah from Gujarat supported the creation of that entity. The basis on which Pakistan was founded has nothing to do with the Jaheel, Kaffir pre-Islamic civilization.

Cultures change and evolve... You can say the Hindu ones didn't keep up with the more evolved culture. Furthermore, you've claimed that RR missed the point, I believe you didn't even make one.

 

[Awesome]

India, that is Bharat, is more properly understood as a civilization rather than as a region or a nation-state.

This is the civilization that includes the Vedas, the Upanishads, the Mahabharata and the Bhagavad Gita, sciences like Ayurveda, Astronomy and Mathematics, Raja Yoga and Hatha Yoga, the Sanskrit language, people like Panini of Gandhara, Adi Shankara of Kerala, Gautama Buddha of Bihar/Nepal, and sages like Patanjali, Agastya and Valmiki.

Civilizational legacy is transmitted neither through geography nor through genes - but through culture, knowledge, philosophy and outlook.

India never really had ONE civilization. The mere testament is the world of a difference between the South Indians and the North Indians. The southerners don't even give the same allegiance to India as the Northerners do.

 

[Awesome]

so what have U done for ur "pre-Islamic" history.....thats what I asked...also bro..as per the pre-Islamic history..Ghauri was to attacker on pakistan.....and you have glorified his name......now thats what i call simple...Its u who have chosen what represent ur history

Ghauri defeated Prithvi raj Chuhan. The significance of the name is that our Ghauri missile will defeat your prithvi missile.

Geez, don't tell me Indians didn't get it, till today?

 

[Flintlock]

India never really had ONE civilization. The mere testament is the world of a difference between the South Indians and the North Indians. The southerners don't even give the same allegiance to India as the Northerners do.

What differences do you see?

 

[Flintlock]

Ghauri defeated Prithvi raj Chuhan. The significance of the name is that our Ghauri missile will defeat your prithvi missile.

Geez, don't tell me Indians didn't get it, till today?

Ghauri defeated Pakistan before that. You are naming your missiles after people who conquered and defeated you.

And Prithvi is Sanskrit for "earth". Nothing to do with Prithviraj Chauhan. How hard is it to understand?

 

[Halaku Khan]

India never really had ONE civilization. The mere testament is the world of a difference between the South Indians and the North Indians. The southerners don't even give the same allegiance to India as the Northerners do.

You can leave it to Indians to decide about their civilizational commonalities. Pakistanis don't understand India because they have divorced themselves from this civilization.

 

[Vinod2070]

Ghauri defeated Prithvi raj Chuhan. The significance of the name is that our Ghauri missile will defeat your prithvi missile.

Geez, don't tell me Indians didn't get it, till today?

Don't tell me that the Pakistanis don't know even today that they screwed badly when they thought Prithvi referred to Prithviraj, it referred to "Earth" in Sanskrit.

Indian missiles are named after elements of nature like Prithvi (Earth), Agni (Fire), Aakash (Sky). Someone did screw up badly!

 

[UnitedPak]

You can leave it to Indians to decide about their civilizational commonalities. Pakistanis don't understand India because they have divorced themselves from this civilization.

Pakistanis did not "divorce" themselves from their own history and identity. They divorced themselves from colonial India.
Modern India has no claim over the Indus valley.

 

[Vinod2070]

You can leave it to Indians to decide about their civilizational commonalities. Pakistanis don't understand India because they have divorced themselves from this civilization.

That is the strange part.

Pakistanis know little about India and are in fact in no position to talk of Indian civilization as they have been divorced so completely from it.

For some reason they still feel they know the Indian civilization and the nuances of India. They simply don't and are incapable of that given the inherent contradictions in their identity.

 

[asaad-ul-islam]

You can leave it to Indians to decide about their civilizational commonalities. Pakistanis don't understand India because they have divorced themselves from this civilization.

sounds like someone's jealous. indians think Pakistanis don't deserve to be the rightful heirs of the indus valley-which they are-because they don't appreciate their history. thus, indians strongly believe they have the right to claim that history, although they have no direct roots to the indus valley.

it's like me saying that I deserve to be rich because I value money and I don't waste it like my friend. another better example being that I deserve to be an israelite-although I'm of caucasian stock-because I practice judaism, while the descendants of the original israelites living in Syria and Palestine don't deserve to be called israelites because they are muslims and not jews.

 

[Halaku Khan]

Pakistanis did not "divorce" themselves from their own history and identity. They divorced themselves from colonial India.
Modern India has no claim over the Indus valley.

Some Pakistanis get into mental contortions by trying to claim only those aspects of Indian civilization that are geographically connected to present-day Pakistan. So Panini is claimed because he was from Gandhara, but not Adi Shankara because he was from Kerala. It's unnatural and unsustainable. Indian civilization has to be understood in an organic, holistic way.

But I suppose its a positive thing that some Pakistanis are trying to claim at least a part of the Indian civilization. Previous generations of Pakistanis used to proudly say that Pakistan began with Muhammad bin Qasim.

If you want to claim Panini, do go ahead and study Sanskrit. Learn Panini's grammar and logic. Study the Sanskrit religious, philosophical and scientific literature from all over India. It may help you to understand yourself better.

 

[Halaku Khan]

If you want to claim Panini, do go ahead and study Sanskrit. Learn Panini's grammar and logic. Study the Sanskrit religious, philosophical and scientific literature from all over India. It may help you to understand yourself better.

For those who might truly want to claim the legacy of Panini by studying Sanskrit and Panini's contributions: We usually begin the sacred work of acquiring knowledge by invoking the blessings of Saraswati, the Godess of Learning. So this ancient Mantra is for you. Even if you don't follow the words, concentrate on the sound - you may feel something of its spirit. Best wishes for your efforts

 

[Halaku Khan]

We usually begin the sacred work of acquiring knowledge by invoking the blessings of Saraswati, the Godess of Learning.

This is going off topic, but let me give an explanation for those who may be interested. Chants such as the one above are usually highly symbolic - for example this one mentions Brahma, Achyuta (Vishnu), and Shankar (Shiva) - these represent Creation, Preservation, and Destruction respectively, which are aspects of Prakriti or Mother Nature. The imagery associated with such "deities" is also symbolic.

Sanatana Dharma at its core is monistic. This is called "Advaita" in the Indian tradition, and the foremost exponent thereof was Adi Shankara. This concept is not the same as the monotheism of semitic faiths.

Advaita does not preclude the liberal use of symbols and imagery, which unfortunately is often misunderstood by outsiders. However insiders feel no conflict between the symbols and imagery on one hand, and the abstract Advaita philosophy on the other.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If you want to claim Panini, do go ahead and study Sanskrit. Learn Panini's grammar and logic. Study the Sanskrit religious, philosophical and scientific literature from all over India. It may help you to understand yourself better.

Are the British, Greeks, Italians - Europeans in general, required to learn and profess the languages, dialects of ancient Britan, Greece and Rome, before they can claim their history? Are they required to follow the cultures and faiths of Gaul, Greek and Roman mythology before they can claim their history?

Absolutely inane arguments continue to be repeated by the Indians here.

The only people performing menal controtions here are Indians, to somehow divorce an entire people and nation from the history of their forefathers.

The history of Pakistan and Pakistanis is the history of Mehgarh, of Harrapa of the Indus Valley Civilization, of Gandhara, of Mohammad Bin Qasim, of Durrani and Ghauri, and everything in between and before. It is the history of the people, cultures and civilizations that ebbed and flowed in the lands of Pakistan and evolved into the cultures and people inhabiting Pakistan today.