ANALYSIS: PAKISTAN’S VT4 ACQUISITION

[truthfollower]

The Pakistani, Chinese relationship across the board has become very important for both countries, but the defense side now is so close that the defence forces have the ability to coordinate themselves in the same theatre, this is revolutionary.

Expect more closeness and acquisition of platforms and systems from China to Pakistan.

But behind the scenes their is cooperation in other forms of defence including EW, C4I2SR, Cyber and Space.

Keep your eyes on the net centric capability of the Armed Forces, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Please tell us more

 

[Kompromat]

Do we have evidence of this order?

 

[serenity]

I think you guys have it wrong. Although out of VT-4, Altay, T90MS, and Oplot-M, Altay is definitely the best and also so much more expensive, T90MS is better than VT-4 and Oplot-M. Oplot-M and VT-4 are quite similar level overall but Oplot has better protection against penetration round while VT-4 has active protection system to protect against missiles which Oplot cannot. Otherwise VT-4 firepower may even be slightly better than Oplot. Oplot is more expensive I think. However T90MS is better than both and Altay is one level above at K2 tank level.

For considering price, then VT-4 and Oplot are best choices but Oplot is not quite available and VT-4 has more chance for future modifications and easy improvements. Engine output depend whether Pakistan's VT-4 will be 1300hp or 1500hp which could be much more than Oplot but Oplot is also smaller and lighter than VT-4.

For equipment inside the tank, I risk betting VT-4 should be better than Oplot-M which is 2000s equipment and some new stuff introduced after 2010.

VT-4 and T90MS in theory is very close with some slightly better in certain areas but both are very new tanks upgraded from older stuff like combined Type 96B with Type 99A and T-90 with T-14 improvements and in between improvements. However I think T90MS is better because it achieves everything VT-4 has with smaller size and lower weight. For tank's mobility and access for difference terrain this is actually incredibly important. T90MS can also add active protection and modify armor. Price seems to be slightly higher than VT-4 though.

 

[graphican]

VT4 is a welcome addition - but why didn't Pakistan go for Altay? Is it not ready, not available, doesn't fit requirements, doesn't fit the budget?

 

[Navigator]

VT4 is a welcome addition - but why didn't Pakistan go for Altay? Is it not ready, not available, doesn't fit requirements, doesn't fit the budget?

It’s very good for Pakistan that the country didn't go for the Turkish Altay tank. There is still not started mass production, therefore even it's own Turkish army haven't yet received the first ordered tanks.

 

[CHI RULES]

VT4 is a welcome addition - but why didn't Pakistan go for Altay? Is it not ready, not available, doesn't fit requirements, doesn't fit the budget?

Sir as per reports Atlay still in development further our infrastructure is not suitable for such a heavy MBT. At best Pak may get help in case protection i.e reactive armor, active protection system and perhaps in ammo from Turkey for future AK-2.

 

[waz]

I think you guys have it wrong. Although out of VT-4, Altay, T90MS, and Oplot-M, Altay is definitely the best and also so much more expensive, T90MS is better than VT-4 and Oplot-M. Oplot-M and VT-4 are quite similar level overall but Oplot has better protection against penetration round while VT-4 has active protection system to protect against missiles which Oplot cannot. Otherwise VT-4 firepower may even be slightly better than Oplot. Oplot is more expensive I think. However T90MS is better than both and Altay is one level above at K2 tank level.

For considering price, then VT-4 and Oplot are best choices but Oplot is not quite available and VT-4 has more chance for future modifications and easy improvements. Engine output depend whether Pakistan's VT-4 will be 1300hp or 1500hp which could be much more than Oplot but Oplot is also smaller and lighter than VT-4.

For equipment inside the tank, I risk betting VT-4 should be better than Oplot-M which is 2000s equipment and some new stuff introduced after 2010.

VT-4 and T90MS in theory is very close with some slightly better in certain areas but both are very new tanks upgraded from older stuff like combined Type 96B with Type 99A and T-90 with T-14 improvements and in between improvements. However I think T90MS is better because it achieves everything VT-4 has with smaller size and lower weight. For tank's mobility and access for difference terrain this is actually incredibly important. T90MS can also add active protection and modify armor. Price seems to be slightly higher than VT-4 though.

You missed an important point here, with all things being more or less equal i.e. tank parts, the weight of the VT-4 still outweighs the T-90MS by 4 tonnes, that's armour. The weight to power ratio is also better than the T-90MS. Lastly the T-90MS was also tested by the army and was beat by the VT-4.

 

[Dazzler]

"We have already prepared the T-90MS [the export version of the T-90M] for a foreign customer and tested it and by decision of Russia’s Defense Ministry we have held R&D work, as a result of which we have developed a good T-90M. And now, as far as I understand, the T-90M ‘Proryv’ [Breakthrough] will be the main battle tank in the army," the general said as Russia was celebrating Land Forces Day on October 1.

The T-90M Breakthrough was also reported as MS at some places, SM at others. I think they are pretty much same. May be different designation for export and local use but not great difference in the actual hardware.

Can you share what are the differences between SM and MS versions? That would help.

Armor, main gun, ammo are different in export models. Russian M breakthrough is leap ahead of MS. Some external differences are there as well.

 

[serenity]

You missed an important point here, with all things being more or less equal i.e. tank parts, the weight of the VT-4 still outweighs the T-90MS by 4 tonnes, that's armour. The weight to power ratio is also better than the T-90MS. Lastly the T-90MS was also tested by the army and was beat by the VT-4.

I did not know Pakistan already tested MS. Is India not angry with Russia to offer a much better T-90 to Pakistan? T-90MS is so much better than T-90S.

Armor arrangement is different. VT-4's perfectly frontal side is stronger than MS but MS has better arc cover and distribute this better. Both are very poor from side and everywhere else. VT-4 from the front is excellent but also means you have to plan side attacks and have infantry cover.

 

[Arsalan]

Armor, main gun, ammo are different in export models. Russian M breakthrough is leap ahead of MS. Some external differences are there as well.

If that is the case then perhaps we know nothing about the SM model. Every where you look you see one spec. Labeled MS at time and SM at others. Must be a very well guarded secret then.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Vt4 that PA is receiving is not the standard vt4 but with a lots of modification, it will be one off sort of a thing.
To term it vt4P would be most appropriate

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Anything official?? Pics statement etc??

 

[Dazzler]

If that is the case then perhaps we know nothing about the SM model. Every where you look you see one spec. Labeled MS at time and SM at others. Must be a very well guarded secret then.

They keep changing designations. T90 has its DNA in t-72BU, but later they designated it objekt 188, and T-88. Eventually it became the t-90 thanks to the embarrassing performance of 72 during the first Persian gulf war.

 

[Stannis Baratheon]

MBTs are always effective if used in a combo, not a stand alone weapon.

MBT are becoming useless and Heavier APCs are being used for heavy infantry support. The 120/125mm gun is not suitable for modern battlefield where tank vs tank happens. Even if it happens, ATGM have a longer range and can be mounted on APCs.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Even if it happens, ATGM have a longer range and can be mounted on APCs.

But then, an APC carrying, at most, 10 ATGMs rounds in it, against a heavily armored tanks carrying more than 40 rounds of APFSDS or DU..


Time of flight of a normal ATGM till 3000 meters is 15 to 20 seconds....a tank round can cover the same distance in around 3 seconds....