An open letter to Pakistani men, from a working class woman

[That Guy]

Against the threat of a larger India, Pakistan cannot afford to continue to marginalize half of its population. It is down right criminal that women are treated as second class citizens by their own fellow countrymen.

 

[Hell hound]

It's not western rights, it's human rights, and why shouldn't she demand it? It is her right as a citizen of Pakistan to protest what she perceives to be injustices, and demand fairness.

That's what I was saying that why do we have to object every thing which have it's origin in west.like what the difference between jeans or skin tight Churidhar pajama if both a worn with a long qamiz.
People won't bat an eye at the girl wearing pajama but will judge and pass disgusting remarks about the girl wearing jeans.

 

[That Guy]

I would say stop using harassment as an excuse to wear immodest cloths publicly. Who supports men harassing women?
But then again that does not give women a license to disrespect the society.

News flash, everyone has a license to disrespect common society, it's called liberty.

Using these excuses of "immodest cloths" are quite literally justifying harassment. It is literally saying that what women wear, leads to their harassment. A woman can wear whatever the hell they want (provided it is within the law) and no one should be allowed to harass them.

 

[Moonlight]

... My name is abdulbarijan and I'm not a feminist!

Good for you. :p

It's not western rights, it's human rights, and why shouldn't she demand it? It is her right as a citizen of Pakistan to protest what she perceives to be injustices, and demand fairness.

So why did we need this country?????
To carry our culture and religious values. Right?

Let's not talk about religion for a moment even Pakistani culture is far different from western culture.
Why it's becoming hard to realize?

Homosexuality is human right too then so you find it totally fine to implement this law Pakistan?

Sir, every culture has its now norms and values and we are obligated to accept it.

No one is forcing them all to wear Abbya but as it's a Muslim society so it's expected to wear them modest cloths.

Fair enough.

 

[war&peace]

News flash, everyone has a license to disrespect common society, it's called liberty.

Using these excuses of "immodest cloths" are quite literally justifying harassment. It is literally saying that what women wear, leads to their harassment. A woman can wear whatever the hell they want (provided it is within the law) and no one should be allowed to harass them.

Newton's law
They disrespect society (which is okay for you..liberty bla bla bla) = the society will disrespect them (which is not okay with you..violation of human right bla bla )...
so do you see the absurdity of your comment above?

 

[Moonlight]

@Hell hound and I don't see anyone questioning the dress of a woman who's wearing jeans with long shirt. Those are questioned usually who wear jeans with very short shirts.

 

[AlyxMS]

Using these excuses of "immodest cloths" are quite literally justifying harassment. It is literally saying that what women wear, leads to their harassment. A woman can wear whatever the hell they want (provided it is within the law) and no one should be allowed to harass them.

You are making a good point.

But I wonder what qualifies as "harassment"?
Can you give me a few examples?

I want to believe you but there are too many people these days thinking everything is harassment.

Staring for two seconds: Harassment
"Good morning, beautiful": Harassment
"Nice outfit": Harassment

If you standards of harassment involves vulgar language or physical contact, you are absolutely right.

 

[That Guy]

Newton's law
They disrespect society (which is okay for you..liberty bla bla bla) = the society will disrespect them (which is not okay with you..violation of human right bla bla )...
so do you see the absurdity of your comment above?

Disrespect towards societal values, through verbal speech against harassment, and harassment towards a specific individual, usually with a sexual nature to it, they are different.

You can dismiss my argument, but even you have to admit that this comparison is flawed in its very nature.

Also, how do you explain my niqab wearing sister's harassment?

Instead of addressing the writer's over all theme, all you did was latch on to one single point.

You are making a good point.

But I wonder what qualifies as "harassment"?
Can you give me a few examples?

I want to believe you but there are too many people these days thinking everything is harassment.

Staring for two seconds: Harassment
"Good morning, beautiful": Harassment
"Nice outfit": Harassment

If you standards of harassment involves vulgar language or physical contact, you are absolutely right.

Generally vulgar language, or language that is sexual in nature.

An example would be commenting on a woman's body; breasts, butt, belly, legs...etc.

Good for you. :p



So why did we need this country?????
To carry our culture and religious values. Right?

Let's not talk about religion for a moment even Pakistani culture is far different from western culture.
Why it's becoming hard to realize?

Homosexuality is human right too then so you find it totally fine to implement this law Pakistan?

Sir, every culture has its now norms and values and we are obligated to accept it.

No one is forcing them all to wear Abbya but as it's a Muslim society so it's expected to wear them modest cloths.

Fair enough.

The nature of states, such as culture and politics, change; a state that does not change, is a dead state.

We are obligated to accept nothing, all we're obligated to do is follow the law.

Also "we", as in you myself and @war&peace don't really have a right to talk, as if we're living in Pakistan. We're, at this point, all foreigners. You both live in the US, and I live in Canada.

 

[Zibago]

Dear western cloth wearing women
This is Pakistan and millions of Pakistani women wear respectable clothing so your are not that special and if you really want to wear the western cloths then why don't you leave Pakistan and settle in the west...I'm pretty sure no one will be missing your presence.

I see girls in capris and half sleeve tops all the time do i care um not really

 

[Hell hound]

@Hell hound and I don't see anyone questioning the dress of a woman who's wearing jeans with long shirt. Those are questioned usually who wear jeans with very short shirts.

Well my sister will disagrees with this point of your's.reaction of the people changes the moment they see a single piece of western cloth on you.now matter how much better it is at covering your body than it's eastern counterpart
what are we supposed to do with the people ogling the girl wearing overcoat.demand a separate country from them

 

[Moonlight]

Disrespect towards societal values, through verbal speech against harassment, and harassment towards a specific individual, usually with a sexual nature to it, they are different.

You can dismiss my argument, but even you have to admit that this comparison is flawed in its very nature.

Also, how do you explain my niqab wearing sister's harassment?

Instead of addressing the writer's over all theme, all you did was latch on to one single point.


Generally vulgar language, or language that is sexual in nature.

An example would be commenting on a woman's body; breasts,


The nature of states, such as culture and politics, change; a state that does not change, is a dead state.

We are obligated to accept nothing, all we're obligated to do is follow the law.

Also "we", as in you myself and @war&peace don't really have a right to talk, as if we're living in Pakistan. We're, at this point, all foreigners. You both live in the US, and I live in Canada.

Ok answer my one question, why Pakistan was created? If your answer is Islam, then here's my second question
Why on the earth we can't change in good way, toward development?
Thirdly, if Islam is created on the name of Islam, then Quran doesn't expire and it never will. The teachings will remain the same.

Why our women only want the rights of wearing whatever they want?

So many examples of Muslim women working on different fields. Why not thinking about that?

Well my sister disagrees with this point.reaction of the people changes the moment they see a single piece of western cloth on you.now matter how much better it is at covering your body than it's eastern counterpart
what are we supposed to do with the people ogling the girl wearing overcoat.demand a separate country from them

Well that's her personal experience then. I have sisters and friends living in Pakistan who wear jeans with long Pakistani shirt. They have not experienced anything...

 

[Zibago]

We give a damn to them.. Right now they are just pushing the limits and testing the patience but once the patience runs out, they won't find a refuge. We have already been fighting religious extremism so we can easily point our guns to these libtards.

Heil Trump

 

[Moonlight]

Thats a very Trumpian argument

Seriously?

Trump want to deport all the Muslims and when did I ever ask to deport all the non Muslims from Pakistan?
He wants to register Muslims and when did I say register all those non Muslims?
He wants to ban my religion in US and when did I say to do the same in Pakistan?

I fully support the freedom of religion.

Every society has its norms and they should respect it. American Muslims are not breaking those norms. That was not very sane of you.

 

[war&peace]

You can dismiss my argument, but even you have to admit that this comparison is flawed in its very nature.

Sorry you can't force me to admit anything despite the fact you are TTA here

Also, how do you explain my niqab wearing sister's harassment?

I would say change the locality and do not generalise over the whole country. I consider my family to be conservative, my sister does hijab, does not wear a niqab, drives a car and studies at KEMU and lives in the hostel. She was just once harassed (he just said something obnoxious..nothing more) by a male class mate but she dealt with him her own way and got him warning letter from the VC and got him banned from labs for two months ...
She drives a car in Multan, Lahore and Islamabad..she hasn't been harassed or scared beyond anything but some teenagers on bikes tried to chase her car...
Get your sister some strong nerves and martial arts training or change the location.

Heil Trump

Perhaps you want to say Hail Trump

 

[That Guy]

Ok answer my one question, why Pakistan was created? If your answer is Islam, then here's my second question
Why on the earth we can't change in good way, toward development?
Thirdly, if Islam is created on the name of Islam, then Quran doesn't expire and it never will. The teachings will remain the same.

Why our women only want the rights of wearing whatever they want?

So many examples of Muslim women working on different fields. Why not thinking about that?

This view is simplistic in nature. You cannot simply say that Pakistan was created for Islamic values. Let's behonest here, Pakistan is hardly Islamic in nature. If you want Islam, go to (if Sunni) KSA or (if Shia) Iran.

Describe what you mean by "in a good way, towards development".

As for Muslim women wanting the right to wear whatever they want, and working in different fields. We're so easy to criticize when a European nation, such as France, bans the Niqab and the Burka, but when it comes to Muslim nations, we ignore the same issues.

And for working in different fields, sure, but that's not the issue here. We can't simply keep looking at the good, and ignore that the bad doesn't exist. There is evil in society, such as harassment, which needs to be addressed.