An Open Letter to Moderate Muslims

[VCheng]

What I do agree with is that depoliticizing Islam is a dire need, and we as individuals need to make changes, but the way the author presented it, first he goes way off with his commentary on the recent Reza Aslan vs Bill Maher thing, I suppose it was what inspired him to make this article, but he set the tone with this for the rest of the article.

Thank you for a great reply, and taking the time to do it despite being busy.

You hit the crux of the matter right here: "depoliticizing Islam is a dire need". This is exactly what I have said all along, that religion is a personal matter and Islam as a religion gives complete coverage for a person, but those who insist that it being a complete code of ALL issues related to life must include political control and power at the State level.

And that is the real debate, Sir, in my view.

 

[KingMamba]

To the point article. There are no moderate Muslims, there are just Radicals who do exactly what Quran says, kill infidels wherever you see them. Then there are those semi-Radicals who just call themselves "moderates" by condemning such actions and saying Quran is being misinterpreted and quoted out of context when actually thats not the case and are quick to label anyone "Islamophobe" who questions them.

Stop being an Islamophobe Sindhi bhai.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Hi Jungi,

Although I am quoting you but my query is not specifically pointed at you....
All moderate muslims vehemently denounce terrorists and militants with a blanket statement.

But when it comes to the organisations and specifics, each geographical region has their good and bad terrorrists... ISIS is bad but no moderate muslim will on record denounce Hamas or hezbollah...

Same goes for pakistanis and bangladeshis.... Everyone will denounce 26/11 but will not utter a single word against LeT or JeM...

A progressive muslim state like pakistan will denounce terror and at the same time stood mute when bamiyaan buddhas were demolished.... Pakistan made a hue and cry during riots in India, but did not utter a single word against it's ow allies blowing up statues that stood for millenniums, museums ransacked and women treated worse that animals right in it's own backyard.

Hello matey,

I'm not sure quite what you're asking, it's a broad issue and each specific case has it's own politics.
Muslims are a confused, sorry bunch of people. Pathetic at times.

I wan't to make a distinction before we proceed. Muslims have displayed some hypocrisy, I agree with that to an extent. However there is a difference between a Muslim state like Pakistan doing what it does, and between the individual like you and I saying/believing what we know to be true.

On Hamas, I think it's also the case that many Muslims are more inclined to support Hamas because they are the only form of armed resistance against Israel, for me it does not at all excuse their methods and ideology, but for many I reckon had there have been another element in the political spectrum like the secular PLO. The opinions of many Muslims would be different. Had the politics of the region been different, had the stance of the world on the Muslim world, and the stance of global powers on Palestine been different the response would have been different. Israel tries it's best to make it seem like all forms of Palestinian resistance IS and HAS TO BE Islamic extremism, Hamas endorses the same idea for their own benefit. The anger of some Muslims along with the above undoubtedly leaves them inclined to Hamas.

But there are those among us, take me for example, I am what I'd call a practising Muslim, I'm very opinionated, and I'm very interested in this conflict too, I support Palestinian resistance to an extent, but completely reject groups like Hamas, as long as they target civilians and don't have the right sort of ideas for some sort of Middle ground with the Israelis.

But anyway, I think I need clarification on what you mean in your post. Please forget political correctness, I know you well enough to take on board what you have to say and discuss, don't hold back.

Thank you for a great reply, and taking the time to do it despite being busy.

You hit the crux of the matter right here: "depoliticizing Islam is a dire need". This is exactly what I have said all along, that religion is a personal matter and Islam as a religion gives complete coverage for a person, but those who insist that it being a complete code of ALL issues related to life must include political control and power at the State level.

And that is the real debate, Sir, in my view.

I completely agree.

And ye know what? Here's another interesting phenomena, everywhere in the Muslim world where Islam was used as a tool in politics, sectarianism followed, sectarianism even at lower levels left Muslims wide open to terrorism. I'll be damned if there isn't a single conflict in the Middle East involving Islamic extremists that doesn't have some sort of a sectarian colour.

 

[VCheng]

I completely agree.
And ye know what? Here's another interesting phenomena, everywhere in the Muslim world where Islam was used as a tool in politics, sectarianism followed, sectarianism even at lower levels left Muslims wide open to terrorism. I'll be damned if there isn't a single conflict in the Middle East involving Islamic extremists that doesn't have some sort of a sectarian colour.

It is not just the Middle East. Just look at our long and inexorable decline after adopting the Objectives Resolution, with a dangerous race to the bottom of the pit recently.

 

[The SC]

I do not see what the article wants to imply apart from using what is happening in middle east to gratuitously criticize the whole Muslim world, and even at that , it fails, since everywhere in the Muslim world extremism is being fought against by Muslims themselves.
In Iraq, the only needed help was some air cover by the Iraqi Air force, but since it does not or not allowed to have its own air force yet, the US had to send its air force instead, where an Iraqi air force would have been sufficient for the matter at hand. In Syria, there were no pertinent causes to an American intervention whatsoever. Pakistan is bing successful at fighting its regional extremists.
So what is the point of this article? Since it sounds out of reality and full of distorted facts.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

To me it sounded like a lullaby to Muslims to go back to sleep , and not look shocked as we routinely call Muslim / Islam as problem in International Media

When only 0.000125% of 1.6 Billion Muslims are engaged in civil war.

The article was mainly written to say to Muslims , look the problem is your religion and faith that is why we use these harsh words against you in media and you must accept it and feel ashamed , I mean that is what it sounded to me

lol what ?

Truly a Moron author , who feels its justified that taking action of few people who are in deadly civil war as action that are applicable to 1.6 Billion Muslims living from Morocco to Indonesia

The Author does not digs deep in to the factions providing Weaponry to these groups and does not discusses the action of international forces what role they played in decentralization of whole region, yet he is quick to pounce on Muslims and states yes , its your fault we see bad things on Media and Islamophobic content

Then the author , idiotic as he is starts to question the validity of verses in Quran. I am like Mr Author , Canadian Author should you not first be explaining the role of international governments in decentralizing the governments that were in place in 80s in he region instead of blaming it on Religion.

I mean a person who can't rationalize the impact of war in region for last 35 years and recent supply of weapon by international bodies is now blaming it all on Quran ...lol no Mr Author you should go back and rewind and view all the UN council votes that went to start this mess in 90's

This mess is creation of United Nations - the 1.6 Billion Muslims even then were going to work and looking after their families and taking care of their families when some folks were voting in United Nations and planning to decentralize governments in whole region

Is united Nations , following Islam or follows Quran when it made its incorrect decisions 30-40 years ago ....exactly blame the group that passed resolution to destabilize region and provide it with weapons

Thank you


0.000125% of 1.6 Billion Muslims enaged in civil war

But .... what is wrong with the Islam followed by 1.6 Billion people ? Mr Author you might want to explain why the 1.6 Billion Muslim who read the same book and lines do not do same as the ones involved in civil war....

hmmmm

Millions of Doctors saving lives world wide
Millions working in Engineering
Millions Working in Aeronautics
Millions working in Maths
Millions working in Political sciences
Million working in Humanitarian aid
Millions working in Finance world
Millions working in aid programs for helping people
Millions working world wide to make the world better
Millions just today must have had dinner with their families and have strong family structure
Millions defending borders of their countries in legitimate trained militaries
Millions acting as teachers in schools , Universities and higher institutes

And 1.6 Billion peaceful Muslims do not need to hear comments from Bigots on International air , that their is something wrong with their Religion because of civil war happening in small portion of world that involves mere 0.000125% of 1.6 Billion Muslims.

Basically we need this trend of irresponsible journalism to stop

 

[Developereo]

Even the other day on some thread @Developereo who is a senior member denounced all kind of terror, but when asked specifics started teaching me english instead of saying a word against hamas or hezbollah ....

Wrong.

You wanted me to denounce one side of the conflict inflicting terror, while giving an implicit pass to the other side.
I wrote an unequivocal condemnation of terror by _ANY_ side.
My statement was neutral and balanced; yours was one-sided.
Feel free to quote the exchange, which is in plain English, for all to read.

 

[gambit]

Thank you for a great reply, and taking the time to do it despite being busy.

You hit the crux of the matter right here: "depoliticizing Islam is a dire need". This is exactly what I have said all along, that religion is a personal matter and Islam as a religion gives complete coverage for a person, but those who insist that it being a complete code of ALL issues related to life must include political control and power at the State level.

And that is the real debate, Sir, in my view.

Very good, sir. But I would use a more inflammatory term: politically defanging.

Personally, I view organized politics as a devious snake. Politics are about the maneuvers we must execute and endure in navigating the many challenges others put up in our ways in life. In essence, all of us gets in each other's paths.

When I was stationed in England, I came to be a fan of the 'roundnabout' or 'traffic circles'. I wish we have more of them in the US. I befriended an Oxford policeman who was studying to be a civil engineer. He taught me a few things about traffic as a science and traffic management in general. Things like signs, lines, and roundabouts are called 'traffic deconfliction' devices. When you and I are on the roads, usually we do not have the same goals in mind. Hence the need for these devices to compel us to get out of each other's way.

I view politics in the same perspective: That political institutions like legislative, executive, and judiciary are the necessary deconfliction means to get us all to get along with each other with the minimum of anger and maximum benefits as possible. In trying to get out of each other's way, we agree on compromises, which means both accept some degrees of disappointments for ourselves in order to gain general satisfaction for both of us.

The disaster is when fanatics gain control of the political deconfliction devices. In essence, they set the rules according to only what they want, which always involves what they believe are good for us in spite of our own desires. And always there are 'special' lanes for their desires, which always are kept secret from us who are under their jurisdiction.

No forms of politics are perfect but the worst are always from religious fanaticism.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Fanaticism grows , with lack of schools and centralized government , may be next time around prior to Taking out governments United Nations should think twice before allowing invasion of another country illegally

And not lay blame on Muslims or their faith because decentralization of government results in small groups forming and there are no rules which dictate , who would govern these groups and what the ideological basis of the groups would be, how fanatic or non fanatic they would be

Once a void is created in any area / country or zone , groups form based out of need for centralized government, and sometimes the common element that binds people together happens to be religion

If International Media is so concerned they should go back and revise all the decision United Nations made , when it decentralized and destroyed fully functional armies and forces in region which kept the region at peace for good 40-50 years

If they are so concerned they should provide a history of who supplied weapons to this region for last 30 years and how this weaponry ended up in hand of fanatics

Why don't they go over the countries providing weapons to these groups ...
I don't see a debate in media discussing mistakes done in decentralizing governments in region being the number one culprit in present crisis and there lies the problem some folks feel they are not open to debate about their mistakes or errors in judgement


It takes no rocket scientist to figure it out , 70-80 Million people in Iraq , you provide them with weapons stash remove centralize government and yes there will be chaos, then same is done in Syria

Its like any large city you remove authority there will be chaos

 

[Hulk]

1. “There is no god but Allah; Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.”
2. The Qur’an is the last scripture revealed by Almighty Allah (God), confirming what little truth remains in parts of previous scriptures"

This is believed by 99.99% of muslims and it is taught as the fundamental truth in islamic teachings. I am sorry but to me...that's clearly a sign of intolerance. Islam directly or indirectly teaches intolerance by claiming it that it is the superior religion.

So what you have said is flat wrong. (There was a time i used to believe that too)

And how many religious killing can be attributed to just that one belief. That line is utterly disrespectful to others.

 

[MilSpec]

Hello matey,

I'm not sure quite what you're asking, it's a broad issue and each specific case has it's own politics.
Muslims are a confused, sorry bunch of people. Pathetic at times.

I wan't to make a distinction before we proceed. Muslims have displayed some hypocrisy, I agree with that to an extent. However there is a difference between a Muslim state like Pakistan doing what it does, and between the individual like you and I saying/believing what we know to be true.

On Hamas, I think it's also the case that many Muslims are more inclined to support Hamas because they are the only form of armed resistance against Israel, for me it does not at all excuse their methods and ideology, but for many I reckon had there have been another element in the political spectrum like the secular PLO. The opinions of many Muslims would be different. Had the politics of the region been different, had the stance of the world on the Muslim world, and the stance of global powers on Palestine been different the response would have been different. Israel tries it's best to make it seem like all forms of Palestinian resistance IS and HAS TO BE Islamic extremism, Hamas endorses the same idea for their own benefit. The anger of some Muslims along with the above undoubtedly leaves them inclined to Hamas.

But there are those among us, take me for example, I am what I'd call a practising Muslim, I'm very opinionated, and I'm very interested in this conflict too, I support Palestinian resistance to an extent, but completely reject groups like Hamas, as long as they target civilians and don't have the right sort of ideas for some sort of Middle ground with the Israelis.

But anyway, I think I need clarification on what you mean in your post. Please forget political correctness, I know you well enough to take on board what you have to say and discuss, don't hold back.
.

All I am saying is there are no good terrorists and bad terrorists..... States, especially progressive democracies cannot and should not, be denouncing terror in one part of the world and be ignorant to others when it suits their purposes....

As far as the premise of moderate _____________ (any group, Muslim's, hindus christians, jews, martians)
goes... it has and never will really matter..... who listens to moderates in any groups.... 0.000001% sharks might have attacked humans.... the other 99.9999% sharks are still not able to paint a pretty picture of the sharks....

For current focus on muslim demographics, they will need some ultra left radical muslims who will stand diametrically opposite to everything isis/taliban/hamas stands for to make a significant impact in the world...People who are equally driven, to give up thier lives to stand for human rights, dignity, and anti-oppressive rhetoric of likes of ISIS and bunch

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Muslims are just fine , we have our Governments in Pakistan and Turkey

Pakistan needs to move into Afghanistan/50% iraq and take over that area , and Turkey needs to stand up and take up Syria / 50% iraq

No point of having these small tiny itsy bitsy states with no voice on International Level
Turkey and Pakistan have democratic governments they can easily fill the void in the area case closed role model countries democratic structure in place what else you want as example of leadership

I believe Turkey already had rights to Syria/ Iraq and much of Saudi Arabia till 1913 , so I am sure they can easily fill the gap at least for a peaceful Moderate Syria / Iraq and Pakistan can help mold Afghanistan into a peaceful region.

This is a simple answer they international community need to come to terms with in long term.


Supplying STASH of weapon to Iraq , and then Syrian Rebels is not a ideal answer , I mean someone left back the STASH of weapon ....that is not an ideal situation for peace. The international Community is FUELING the monster of ISIS and its their own 100% fault


Back to the Topic of the Canadian Author, I think he wrote a very limited article focusing on a very high level biased view of the problem with out really viewing the underlying problem or causes of uprising.

• Poor because he could not differentiate between folks involved in fanatical uprising
  in civil war vs peaceful Muslims who live in 100% peaceful countries
• The article was poor because it blamed the violence on Quran however did not talk about realities who left behind the weapon stash and who continue to provide new ammunition
  
• The Article was horrible because it failed to praise the democratic countries of Turkey and Pakistan as symbol of how Muslim societies can have democracies
• One more it failed miserably , because it could not connect the social problems due to 30 years of wars in region which created the fanatical uprising , these wars were approved by United Nations in many cases.

 

[TankMan]

And how many religious killing can be attributed to just that one belief. That line is utterly disrespectful to others.

Allah is the same God that the Jews and Christians worship..... And of course a religion would say there is no other God, what do you expect? What's the point of having a religion if you go around saying "ooh that religion is right too, that god is right too", that's nonsense.
What do you mean "that is utterly disrespectful of others"? What's the point of believing in something if you have to be scared of your beliefs somehow disrespecting others? EVERY SINGLE RELIGION OR BELIEF is believed by its followers to be only correct one. What's the point of believing in something if you are going to think it is wrong??

If I were to follow your logic, I can attribute any amount of killings to any belief or line.

"Jesus is our Lord and Saviour"
Look how evil this line is, it caused the crusades and inquisitions and countless religious murders!

"To each according to their need, from each according to their ability"
Ooooh look how evil this belief is, it caused Communism, it's the reason behind so many killings and murders and wars!

"I love food"
Look how evil this line is, people used to kill other people for food ,how can you love food!!??

 

[Zarvan]

The article is totally right. The Quran is the last scripture by God, but should in my view not be the very last scripture.
Nor should Mohammed The Prophet be the very last prophet of God.

The car, airplane and the internet and our sometimes densely populated world of today have created the need to update all religions and their scriptures (to be more peaceful towards eachother and their own peoples). My advice to God would be not to send us a new Prophet, but to keep sending men and women who will do peaceful battle (when possible on this Earth of today) with the forces of darkness.

Darkness includes forcing your own religious rules onto others with violence or the threat thereof. God please help us. I will do my best to help as well.

Islam is complete no need to update it

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Its just a nonsense article written as Western Societies like to brag about that problem is with the religion rather their their failed policies for last 30 years , who ever signs off on those failed policies simply retires and collects a big fat pay check after their retirement.

Its normally kids in Iraq or Syria who have to live 15-20 years under sanctions and gun fire or lack of school and funding for normal lives and naturally they get tired and are pulled to extremist movements. And these movements are indirectly are financed by the same countries that started the illegal wars against their parent countries in first place to decentralize their governments

However no author in their society would write up an article to ask up real question hey .... weren't these wars started by us in 1990's as Gulf war 1 etc or its not related to the mess we created by Illegally invading Iraq to topple Saddam , or that other illegal war in Afghanistan


1.6 Billion Muslims 25% of world population should not accept the bigot comments on International media that associate the mess to Islam , the present situation is 100% responsibility of United Nation's incorrect decisions

These are all actions that have resulted in rise in militancy

80's Iran - Iraq war started mess
90's Gulf war 1 , continued the mess and make Iraq weak
Post 911 : Unnecessary Iraq war , created a void and decentralized Iraq
2000-2010 : Decentralization Afghanistan - Iraq - Libya - Syria (Weapons supplies to groups)
2013-Present Rise of Rouge groups due to STASH of weapons left by Wars (Between 1980-2014)

Now all of sudden this Canadian Author wakes up from his cave , and comes out scratching his hind , and starts writing up yeah Muslims you better become moderate you know you are too violent , it must be your religion - a truly ignorant article just shows what kinda of idiotic stuff makes the front page news in international news papers

Most of the debates in international audience that discusses , the real story might happen in Academic circles , professors and University students but , most of the other folks like this clueless Canadian Author , tend to write stuff to focus on pleasing a specific view that the news paper has or perhaps that helps further that man's career as "EXPERT" on Muslim affairs.


The author clueless condenses the events of 35 years into a tunnel view of 3-4 months and then claims he knows the culprit - yes it must be the Holy Book which these folks must read and he also tries his best in article to show he also read the same book but how he was superior and more of a human then other folks. Clearly the fault is with the book in his mind and not the 35 years of war, decentralization of government and stash of weapons being supplied over there.... oh no ... that can't be it