American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[karan.1970]

Posts based on media reports - I believe the official PA account has remained consistent.

I think 300 yards figure 1st came out late evening and was rubbished quite a bit.. Most of the discussion y'day was based on how 2.5 km is too large a distance to cover by mistake and how Pakistan couldnt have fired first since no gun would hit that large a distance

It is a 'grave crime' since the posts themselves are clearly demarcated, and 2.5KM is too large a distance to 'cross accidentally'.

And this does not even take into account the fact that if the base was 2.5KM inside Pakistani territory, then NATO forces would have to have been inside Pakistani territory to be within the range of gunfire from the Pakistani base, which means that even if Pakistani forces fired first, they were justified in doing so against forces violating Pakistani territory.

Therefore, no matter what the excuse, NATO is completely at fault here.

There has been no accusation made by anyone that Pakistani soldiers were giving covering fire for the Taliban to infiltrate into Afghanistan. The area was free from militants from the Pakistani side. There has been no suggestion made of this scenario. And the first scenario (hot pursuit) talks about the militants on the Afghan side of the border, not Pakistan. The second scenario (defense) talks about firing from the Pakistani side, but it is not possible that firing from 2.5km inside Pakistan could hit Afghanistan.

It has already been argued in the past several pages - the 'self defence under Pakistani fire' claim does not add up given the location of the base as reported in some accounts (2.5km inside Pakistan), claims of 'gunfire' (which would not be possible from 2.5KM away), claims of 'Commandos on the ground calling in air strikes', which would indicate incompetence on the part of NATO since the coordinates of the base were known to NATO and the proper procedure should have been contacting Pakistani authorities to clear confusion if gunfire was indeed coming from the Pakistani base.

There is nothing so far that suggests NATO was not completely at fault here.

I could go on and on, but I guess you get the gist

 

[JonAsad]

So..U agree that it is the case so...?
What is in the list ?

The case and list- from where they came from?-

 

[SEAL]

problem is we respect generals like lords and we even don't think until damage done .kiyani is failed general but good thing he never talk and we know nothing what he is cooking . we need aggressive minds these days and he is cold like ice .

Not only Kiyani but dengue air chief also make PAF a laughing stock PAF don't even know whats going on in Shamsi, what they operating.

 

[53fd]

Let's wait and see, shall we? 23rd December is not all that far away, is it?

So if you want to wait & see what comes out on December 23, why are on this thread (& similar threads) already declaring Pakistan is in the wrong?

 

[Luftwaffe]

Where is the 'too' coming from? No 'settling' has taken place in the official ISPR/Pakistani position, it has been consistent throughout.

Personally even though many of us have our reservations and anger at NATO-US, regardless of the Report both sides would insist they are right but everything will be settled in the end.

This is not the right thread but if Pakistan knew things could go ugly in future they shouldn't have mass military purchases from US only to know the side that'll feel the hurt would be Pakistan only; Your F-16s, AH-1, Bells helios All are at stake, all good things comes from US unless Pakistan has another better or equally good provider.

 

[VCheng]

I think 300 yards figure 1st came out late evening and was rubbished quite a bit.. Most of the discussion y'day was based on how 2.5 km is too large a distance to cover by mistake and how Pakistan couldnt have fired first since no gun would hit that large a distance











I could go on and on, but I guess you get the gist

and yet I am the one who should admit that did not happen!

 

[53fd]

Let's wait and see, shall we? 23rd December is not all that far away, is it?

If you are claiming to be 'fair & impartial' here, then you have to give official versions coming from all sides equal weight. But it's funny that you are waiting for December 23 to hear NATO's official statement, as if its set in stone, whereas the official statements coming out of Russia, China, the OIC, Turkey etc have no credence or value/meaning. You have already decided they are wrong, & NATO is right. Another display of your impartiality?

 

[VCheng]

So if you want to wait & see what comes out on December 23, why are on this thread (& similar threads) already declaring Pakistan is in the wrong?

I have not declared anybody right or wrong; all I have said is that some backtracking is likely to occur. It has already begun, with the posts moving nearly 2 km towards the border.

 

[JonAsad]

I think 300 yards figure 1st came out late evening and was rubbished quite a bit.. Most of the discussion y'day was based on how 2.5 km is too large a distance to cover by mistake and how Pakistan couldnt have fired first since no gun would hit that large a distance











I could go on and on, but I guess you get the gist

I hope you realized- Till today before the official ISPR accounts of the incident- we all were talking on mere speculations?-
Your point will be valid if still some one continue to argue with this 2.5KM distance-
The official statement is out- that puts an end to all the speculations-

and MR VCheng compared the official statement of ISPR with unofficial unknown speculative estimates of unknown sources from unknown personal and already had declared it "Backtracking"-
So much for the partiality and fair rant he carries-

 

[53fd]

I hope you realized- Till today before the official ISPR accounts of the incident- we all were talking on mere speculations?-
Your point will be valid if still some one continue to argue with this 2.5KM distance-
The official statement is out- that puts an end to all the speculations-

and MR VCheng compared the official statement of ISPR with unofficial unknown speculative estimates from unknown personal and already had declared it "Backtracking"-
So much for the partial and fair rant he carries

Aptly put & well said.

 

[LeGenD]

Let's wait and see, shall we? 23rd December is not all that far away, is it?

Brother, you expect that Americans cannot come up with a concocted story?

They are 'A class' backstabbers.

For this case, I am not convinced that NATO has made a mistake. There is simply no excuse.

Also, early reports are typically not very accurate and can contain errors. Facts come to light with passage of time with proper investigation.

And Pakistan has released its official report and this has been done after proper investigation from the associated authorities.

 

[pakdefender]

Yep, but if there was a war, I'm sure things would get a lot worse for you rather than me.

dont count on that , you are within striking distance of our long range assets

 

[Tangent]

The case and list- from where they came from?-

Simply put..
When Drones have killed 16+ innocent people in single strike many a times..there was no uproar.
Now, when 28 service men died in a 'battle' ( they fired in retaliation / self defence , which could have brought helicopter down and cause casulity on the other side- luckily for pakistan it didn't happen) there is a reaction more than at teh times of Drone attacks.
pakistan doesn't accept NATO's 'sorry'. So the question is what will they accept?
Has GOP or better PA has come with anything? Not yet...
...and the public reaction is growing (not being calmed by PA as was done on other occasion...including OBL raid).
What is the wish list of PA ..to calm or forget this incident. Waht else they want apart from 'sorry' ?
End WOT? Vaccate Af? Pardon Haqquani ? Nuclear deal........list is open to anybody's guess.

 

[53fd]

I have not declared anybody right or wrong; all I have said is that some backtracking is likely to occur. It has already begun, with the posts moving nearly 2 km towards the border.

When did the ISPR declare the posts were 2.5kms from the border?

You have already declared that Pakistan will be backtracking on its statements, meaning Pakistan is in the wrong.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

THE DISTANCE IS IRRELEVANT IF THE GRID COORDS WERE ALREADY GIVEN TO NATO

they've known about that position for ages now; it didnt just come out of the blue.


you also keep forgetting that contact had already been established to report the blue-on-blue engagement; and yet they found themselves under attack.


snap back to reality dude