American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Can you prove he wasn't?

Operations in FATA have not been launched in North Waziristan and there hasn't been any major operations in FATA since 2009.

Those representatives of FATA sitting in national assembly, many of them are being killed by Taliban terrorists because they are moderate. Can a Pakistan citizen travel freely in FATA under the protection of the Pakistani Constitution?

---------- Post added at 03:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:59 PM ----------



All of this needs to be determined by a proper investigation. And you can't hide behind technology and sophistication whenever it suits you.

Lets conduct a joint investigation with NATO to see what happened.

Investigation by NATO... the past ones were never released n this one... i have no hope..

 

[Mercenary]

We are going to close our airspace for the Military planes or the fighter planes......not the commercial ones they can pass we don't care. Plus India is not as big threat as US/NATO is , cuz India is direct under our target whereas US/NATO mainland is far far away from our reach....

Well NATO can counter by closing commercial aviation planes from Pakistan.

As for India, a riff between Pakistan and NATO only benefits India.

---------- Post added at 03:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:08 PM ----------

all cooperation should be indefinitely suspended

What makes you think there was any cooperation to begin with.

 

[I M Sikander]

NATO knows how to use pakistani airspace

Yah very easy , bribe some generals, also give extensions to few generals after their retirement and on the political front just show well wishes to some political leaders and USA will surly get all facilities again and un-interrupted.

 

[VCheng]

VCheng, why the defeatist mindset?

what does THAT serve, pray tell

My mindset is not defeatist; it is merely not overly emotional, and relies on cold, calm logic that is often needed in matters of international geopolitics.

This is a huge and tragic loss not only for the soldier's families, but a blow to the professionalism of the proud Pakistan Army as well, no doubt. However, it would be easy to fall prey to a knee jerk reaction that causes further harm to Pakistan rather than helping.

We need to fight SMARTER, not HARDER. And this means going on a political offensive, realizing that our military and our economy cannot and will not survive a direct confrontation with NATO forces and its aftermath. This is not a defeatist, but eminently pragmatic, point of view.

One way to ensure one's voice not being heard is not to be present at the table. Thus, boycotting the investigation was a mistake, as will be missing the Bonn conference.

Please note that I am not supporting the wrong that was done by NATO in this case; all I am saying is that we need to be smart enough not to complicate matters further by our wounded pride.

National pride will take a long time to recover, after grass root changes in our institutions, slowly and gradually over decades, not by a few emotional rallies.

 

[President Camacho]

Dear Readers, What happen in Salala is very tragic and we are saddened by the death of 25 brave Pakistani soldiers and officials. Our thoughts and prayers go out to their families. We are looking at it very seriously, and that is the reason a high ranking official has been appointed to investigate this incident. A full investigation is underway, and we all should reserve comment on the details of what happened until all investigations are completed.

In an official briefing yesterday, White House Press Secretary Jay Carney said, “The President's reaction is all of our reaction, which is that the events that took those lives -- the event, rather, was a tragedy. The loss of Pakistani life was a tragedy. We mourn the brave Pakistani service members who lost their lives. And our sympathies go out to their families and go out to Pakistan” He further said, “We take this matter very seriously. I believe my colleague over at the Pentagon, George Little, announced earlier today that in addition to ISAF looking into this, at the request of General Allen, CENTCOM will be investigating this matter. And we’re obviously very keen on finding out exactly what happened.” He also said, “As for our relationship with Pakistan, it continues to be an important, cooperative relationship that is also very complicated. And we have been -- senior U.S. officials have been in contact with the Pakistani government, with their counterparts in Pakistan, including Secretaries Panetta and Clinton, Chairman Dempsey, General Allen, Ambassador Munter. And those contacts will continue. It is very much in our national security interest to maintain a cooperative relationship with Pakistan, because we have shared interests in the fight against terrorism. And so we will continue to work on that relationship.”


Maj David Nevers
DET- United States Central Command
U.S. Central Command

Maj. Nevers, please tell us, why would Gen Allen want the CENTCOM to investigate this matter, when it is the sole responsibility of the ISAF... unless, the troops involved in the attack were Americans? Were they?

Also, does the CENTCOM have the authority to investigate in the matters pertaining to the ISAF?

The need for CENTCOM to start another investigation of the same incident points to a lack of trust between the ISAF and the CENTCOM. I wonder why would your General want to take this step, if not to just show off the degree of seriousness with which he takes this incident.

 

[Mercenary]

What communication exactly? We share precise locations of our posts with them and info is upgraded everyday... isn't this enough to avoid blunders? IMO It is enough until you don't have malifide intentions.

I am not sure how precise those locations are.

Information is still very raw at this moment as actually what happened.

There are reports that the Taliban deliberately caused this border clash by launching attacks close to the Pakistani posts in the hopes that NATO could cause friendly fire casualties.

But again, all of this needs to be investigated.

 

[Mercenary]

If only Pakistan was smart and knew how to use USA for its own purposes.

Instead of buying Arms and short term gains from USA, Pakistan should get USA to commit to long term projects and infrastructure development in Pakistan and set up joint weapons research and development with Pakistan the way Turkey does where USA makes F-16's.

 

[regular]

sometime US embassy officials kills pakistani people on road. Sometime surgical strikes. And then mass killing of pakistan soldiers. Why USA doing all this after using pakistan in Afghanistan war

Hey! to tell U the truth US gone crazy cuz he is getting slow death from his economy and couldn't do anything against China for the last 10 years...Their trained Alqaida has been exposed by Pakistan military that is infact the secret military wing of the CIA working against Pakistan, Russia and China....Pakistan military killed all their active field agents in the fight and the rest couldn't find no refuge here has to run back to the cover of US/NATO.... next two more years US will completely fall down economically as well as militarily.... .... they are seeing their slow death within the very near future, couldn't find no cure for it .....Alhamdolillah!.........

 

[VCheng]

i actually agree with this statement from our fake pakistani friend

it seems like the people of pakistan are all willing die hard keyboard martyrs, because provocation can have its draw backs, i doubt russia will really do something so provocative because of the high stakes, they are just using leverage, DONT GET EXCITED.

I would have thanked your post, but your first statement prevented me from doing that.

I am not fake.

 

[regular]

If only Pakistan was smart and knew how to use USA for its own purposes.

Instead of buying Arms and short term gains from USA, Pakistan should get USA to commit to long term projects and infrastructure development in Pakistan and set up joint weapons research and development with Pakistan the way Turkey does where USA makes F-16's.

I guess U so naive about the US even U living in Canada...These things has been tried by the General Musharraf for such kinda joint venture and cooporation but what happened they backstabbed him....Now they got themselves into trouble cuz they were never sincere with us other than backstabbing us all the time......Musharraf was very sincere guy with them but unluckily they intentionally lost him......

 

[Jon Snow]

Repercussion?

What kind of mindset is that? they come and kills you, and you're worried about the repercussions. If we were to worry about the repercussions, why do we have this military in first place?

If you act without thinking about repercussions you are being stupid. simple as that. Its a bad situation for you guys - you dont have any good options available - dont make it worse for you.

As to why you have a military - a military is supposed to be first and foremost a deterrent - if a major war breaks out then the military has already failed.

 

[I M Sikander]

If only Pakistan was smart and knew how to use USA for its own purposes.

Instead of buying Arms and short term gains from USA, Pakistan should get USA to commit to long term projects and infrastructure development in Pakistan and set up joint weapons research and development with Pakistan the way Turkey does where USA makes F-16's.

WHat rubbish, Y should USA help Pakistan. Hum aus ka damaad lagtay hein kya?

Both Pakistan and US are milking and humiliating each other. Unfortunately US and Pakistan has never been friends. PAK-US relationship is like Mutta Marriage. (Jab tak chalta hai kaam, tab tak milta rehta hai hum koo apna daam)

 

[Emmie]

I am not sure how precise those locations are.

Information is still very raw at this moment as actually what happened.

There are reports that the Taliban deliberately caused this border clash by launching attacks close to the Pakistani posts in the hopes that NATO could cause friendly fire casualties.

But again, all of this needs to be investigated.

And who is going to investigate, CENTCOM? Well, considering the past record of Americans I have no faith in them.. Remember how the most pious and noble president of USA stated on national media that Raymond Davis was a diplomat and he deserved immunity? I doubt any pellucid investigation if USA/NATO conducts it. Its like asking a criminal to judge his/her own case.

 

[La ResistanceZ]

What the hell it looks like Pakistan has given them 2 bases.

Watch from 0:00 to 2:21.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

NATO is quoting an Afghan “border policeman” who saw that the fire was coming from the Pakistani posts.
Hence air support was called in


Question: where was this border policeman standing? On the order or was part of the team that was inside Pakistan?

Question: did he see fire coming from both posts? If yes then I say he got some super vision that is able to see 2 different check posts miles apart and from few kilometres away from his position.

Question: if the fire was only coming from one psot then why the other post was attacked too? Its on the premise if the NATO excuse is bought.

The other NATO statement is that the border is poorly marked.

Question: is their equipment and training also poor that they were unable to realise that they were deep inside Pakistan?

Question: did the pilots know what they were attacking? Did the mission HQ actually sent them on purpose to destroy the posts as suggested by the DGMO of Pakistan army?

Question: if the attack was unintentional as the NATO claims and they were loured into Pakistani posts by Taliban then did they forget the gradients of the Pakistani check posts in the heat of the moment?

Question: does NATO acknowledge the communications by Pakistanis to call off the attacks since they were attacking Pakistanis? If they do, does that not negate their claim that the attack was unintentional?


Question: why did the NATO decide that attacking both posts was necessary if their intention was not to destroy Pakistani posts and their story of chasing Taliban is to be bought? isn’t it odd and a consciences that they decided to attack the places where there were Pakistani designated check posts?


My guess is by 23rd of December this will be NATO’s finding.

The ISAF/ ANA were chasing Taliban and there was fire coming from where Pakistani positions were. Since the border is poorly marked so the perusing forces didn’t know a@ss from the elbow and relied on an Afghan border policeman who (location classified and adjusted to suit the story) decided that the fire was coming from 1 or 2 posts that were 2.5 KM inside Pakistan. From his genius a tactical situation arose and on that bases the air strikes were called in and they engaged one of the check post. And then they continued with the other post too where they received some retaliatory fire but destroyed that too.


So NATO is not at fault and neither the NATO commanders not the pilots can be blamed because.

1. An Afghan border policeman said that the fire was coming from Pakistan
2. The border is poorly marked .
3. Taliban could have led the helicopters / ISAF troops to Pakistani posts.
4. When the Pakistani posts came under attack they fired back so they had to be stopped.

I think, Pakistan army should have joined the investigation so that there is less chance of a cover up, unless if Pakistan army has evidence beyond doubt that the attack was premeditated and the posts were remarked for destruction in full knowledge that they were of Pakistan army and that’s why all radio communication was ignored and the attack continued on not one but both posts.

if that is true then expose NATO to the rest of the world and prepare for any similar future attacks like this.
reduce the diplomatic ties, break-up military cooperation and officer exchange/ training program (like command & staff, Gunnies staff etc).

order the closure of all CIA offices and seek the agents and deport them. Permanently stop the NATO supplies.
reduce the cooperation to the level of Turkey or even less and become a passive supporter of Afghan peaceful settlement.
This is the best Pakistan can do. If NATO doesn’t repeat that but if it repeats the attack then it should defend itself with all its force.