American attack aftermath: Pakistan declares attack a 'plot'

[President Camacho]

Two posts were hit. Nobody knows how many troops were asleep initially when the posts were engaged by the helis. So lets not confuse minor pieces of information to try to come up with objections to the Pakistani narrative.

Some troops were obviously hit when they were asleep. Others who stood guard, while others in the platoon deployed rested, engaged the helis. They were engaged by the helis and then the second post engaged the heli with their lone HMG and they too were engaged by the Apaches and AC-130.

Also, once an observation aircraft comes across, the entire post does not wake up. There are duties to be performed round the clock on the position and unless the position is being attacked, the ones resting probably did not come out to check on what the observation aircraft/UAV etc. was up to as in that area, such flights are quite common.

See Blain2, my intention is not to to split the straws here.

I am trying to point out that things are still in the dark. Everything, every detail, every single piece of information that could help define the degree of criminality int his case, is not known to us yet. So, for the better judgement, we should reserve our emotions and prejudice until all the accounts appear clear and coherent.

The fact is still there, and no one can deny it, that NATO attacked a (two, as you say) Pakistani Army post within Pakistan's borders, resulting in killing of over 2 dozen troops, including officers. That is a fact, and time now is to find the reasons behind such a fiasco on NATO's part.

Giving out judgmental statements while keeping nothing but only the results of the actions in mind, and not the processes or intent that led to the consequence, is not right.

 

[clmeta]

What exactly is us upto? have they lost their minds or do they have big hidden plans? so ar america is looking stupid here.

there are reports that usa have refused to apologize

 

[PATRIOT6]

What exactly is us upto? have they lost their minds or do they have big hidden plans? so ar america is looking stupid here.

Still much more to watch , if forces kept silent,

 

[AstanoshKhan]

Would you have been ready for the repercussion?

i.e actions like these on a larger scale, and who knows, possibly a much bigger war scale? Although jets should have been deployed to ward off the intruding helis, and possibly shoot them if fired upon still.

Repercussion?

What kind of mindset is that? they come and kills you, and you're worried about the repercussions. If we were to worry about the repercussions, why do we have this military in first place?

 

[clmeta]

You mean Pakistani forces? What do you want them to do? Further escalation is going to be a boon to TTP and Taliban. By the way, does vacating the Shamsi base mean an end to drones in FATA? TTP will have to invent a new reason to spread terrorism then.

Still much more to watch , if forces kept silent,

 

[blain2]

See Blain2, my intention is not to to split the straws here.

I am trying to point out that things are still in the dark. Everything, every detail, every single piece of information that could help define the degree of criminality int his case, is not known to us yet. So, for the better judgement, we should reserve our emotions and prejudice until all the accounts appear clear and coherent.

The fact is still there, and no one can deny it, that NATO attacked a (two, as you say) Pakistani Army post within Pakistan's borders, resulting in killing of over 2 dozen troops, including officers. That is a fact, and time now is to find the reasons behind such a fiasco on NATO's part.

Giving out judgmental statements while keeping nothing but only the results of the actions in mind, and not the processes or intent that led to the consequence, is not right.

Agreed, but simply making a point that you should not discount the Pakistani narrative over silly tidbits about men continuing to sleep etc. during the firefight.

 

[Jango]

Repercussion?

What kind of mindset is that? they come and kills you, and you're worried about the repercussions. If we were to worry about the repercussions, why do we have this military in first place?

did you read the second paragraph?

But from now on, I think, shoot on sight orders should be given, unless we shoot one down, they won't rest easily.

 

[VCheng]

See Blain2, my intention is not to to split the straws here.

I am trying to point out that things are still in the dark. Everything, every detail, every single piece of information that could help define the degree of criminality int his case, is not known to us yet. So, for the better judgement, we should reserve our emotions and prejudice until all the accounts appear clear and coherent.

The fact is still there, and no one can deny it, that NATO attacked a (two, as you say) Pakistani Army post within Pakistan's borders, resulting in killing of over 2 dozen troops, including officers. That is a fact, and time now is to find the reasons behind such a fiasco on NATO's part.

Giving out judgmental statements while keeping nothing but only the results of the actions in mind, and not the processes or intent that led to the consequence, is not right.

This great post deserves to be quoted in BOLD.

 

[regular]

2 hours of operation inside Pakistan's territory, and our Airforce was mum the whole time leaving the Jawans to be butchered by the crusaders. To hell with these F-16s and Jf-17s, if they can't even protect men of their own organization.

May they Rest In Peace, and may Allah SWT be the judge - the blood of those nation's sons, and the tears and sorrows of those families will not go in vein.

If no action of the same scale didn't taken, the demoralization among military personnel will lead this organization to an absolute disaster.

Iam feeling very sorry for Maj. Mujahid who stood firm on the ground running the 12.7mm machine gun while the gunner got shaheed earlier by the helicopter attack... Eventually his body was torn to pieces and scattered everywhere when a missile struck him later...His body was not even found except his name plate........Never seen such a courage from an Army officer before......A real hero of the nation.The story of his bravery was revealed later by his injured fellow soldiers in the hospital ....Allah may give him his greatest reward in Jannah and to everybody attained shahadah with him....Ameen........

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

What happened to the hotline and next time if a post comes under fire should they surrender as the nation will not back them as?

 

[LeGenD]

expenditure on war against terror ?? isnt it granted by usa ???

To some extent in current times.

I KNOW things are going worst thats what i said above,
but the point is will usa will gonna change our economical stats????
hnh, the damage is in front of u
our president kept saying that no more attacks after that quetta operation event,
no more compromise and same day in news there ws a drone attck , same day,
anyhow i know ,

if u wanna see and wait for pakistan economics to be better and then defend the country
the day will never come and next if u will succeed your opponents will be 5 times more stronger than now
and things in past ?????
will go more worst for pakistan as any new gov tell the previous one bankrupt pakistan , so again economics fall down.

i know army needs more power but in their greed they are spoiling the nation feelings and now after us connections ppl dont love and proud of soldiers than in 1965
that makes a differences.

---------- Post added at 08:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 PM ----------

i mean abbotabad operation above

Here is the economics:

• 180 million people and numbers increasing.
• Shortage of jobs.
• Double-Digit inflation.
• Cost of Living increasing rapidly.
• Gap between rich and poor increasing.
• Industry not working properly.
• Impact of War on Terror.
• Corruption.

Now imagine if US imposes heavy sanctions, enforces blockade in Arabian Sea, and ends all trade with Pakistan (its allies will do the same too), what will be the consequences of all this?

Pakistan will sink very fast and become another Afghanistan.

Do we want this?

There is a limit of everything. Currently we are not in the position to stand up to this new threat. Look around you - the covert war of US inside Pakistan has been going on for several years now. Thousands are dead because of it.

What can our military do at maximum in current circumstances? Fight for some days and when the reserves run out, then what?

We need to stand on our feet first if we want our nation to not be treated like a banana republic. Better to be prepared then sorry.

 

[President Camacho]

Agreed, but simply making a point that you should not discount the Pakistani narrative over silly tidbits about men continuing to sleep etc. during the firefight.

Oh no Blain2, they are anything but silly! The sleeping part is a very important piece of information.

No tidbits there!

If it were the 80's or even the 90's, no mode of communication like CableTV in every house, internet on every phone. Then we wouldn't witness such eruption of public sentiments, and the Army/Gov taking notice of such sentiments.

The sleeping part is not to tell the NATO what a dirty criminal they are. On the fronts, who cares who is sleeping and who is not? The sleeping part is for public consumption! It makes people highly emotional.

Let us say it was proper confrontation, and they all died fighting. The rage among the people would be, somewhat, replaced by pride.

But the revered soldiers getting caught unawares while they were resting makes people more vengeful. Pakistani Army is holding a good leverage to show the Americans that look, you committed a pretty big mistake there, now you gotta compensate for it.

To understand the value of soldiers killed in sleep, consider this - What if the soldiers were attacked, while they had their eyes closed, reading Namaz? That would go over the top, the parked tankers in Peshawar, wouldn't be parked anymore. Don't you think?

The sleeping part carries a great significant here, and that is why it has been emphasized upon by the ISPR.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Most analysts were already looking at the talks as meaningless, especially after the ones in Turkey, which were supposed to have acted as a 'launch pad' for the policies that would have been agreed upon in Bonn.

I know some people are concerned about Pakistan 'losing a voice' at the conference and therefore in the 'end game', but the 'voice' that really matters is not going to be determined at the conference, but between the major players in Afghanistan.

what ''good'' have these conferences brought us for God's sakes.....all talk only.

what cake can Pakistan claim here when we're having an increasingly hostile soil (Afghanistan) in which anti-Pakistan activity flourishes unabated; where drugs weapons and smuggled goods are making their way across; when little has been done by any of the attendees of this ''bonn-fire'' to pocket some of the expense and responsibilty for 4 million Afghan refugees; where a vicious and intentional smear campaign in the media flourishes --spreading lies, half truths, misinformation that isn't even corroborated or double-checked from our side....

as per DGMO Maj. Gen. Nadeem sahib ''No information regarding inquiry of [the previous 2008 or 2010 attacks] was shared or provided to us despite our repeated requests and when provided, it was inaccurate and incomplete” (Standard procedures violated in unprovoked Nato strike: DGMO | Pakistan | DAWN.COM)

14 troops martyred, 13 injured in those previous attacks --- and yet no closure from that!


this is absolutely unacceptable and I think patience of not just military but also the people has worn out completely....


for that reason, all cooperation should be indefinitely suspended

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Good economy or bad economy , only 1% benefited from WOT so who care what isolation will bring , poor is worst now then 90s isolation

 

[VCheng]

Oh no Blain2, they are anything but silly! The sleeping part is a very important piece of information.

No tidbits there!

If it were the 80's or even the 90's, no mode of communication like CableTV in every house, internet on every phone. Then we wouldn't witness such eruption of public sentiments, and the Army/Gov taking notice of such sentiments.

The sleeping part is not to tell the NATO what a dirty criminal they are. On the fronts, who cares who is sleeping and who is not? The sleeping part is for public consumption! It makes people highly emotional.

Let us say it was proper confrontation, and they all died fighting. The rage among the people would be, somewhat, replaced by pride.

But the revered soldiers getting caught unawares while they were resting makes people more vengeful. Pakistani Army is holding a good leverage to show the Americans that look, you committed a pretty big mistake there, now you gotta compensate for it.

To understand the value of soldiers killed in sleep, consider this - What if the soldiers were attacked, while they had their eyes closed, reading Namaz? That would go over the top, the parked tankers in Peshawar, wouldn't be parked anymore. Don't you think?

The sleeping part carries a great significant here, and that is why it has been emphasized upon by the ISPR.

Spot on!

Add pics of a baby girl too for good measure, and it is evident that a psyops is in progress (from both sides).