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America will attack Iran, Syria in October: Gul

Salim said:
Therefore, all of Arabia is not in the plans.

And anyway, they have withdrawn from Gaza which indicates that it is not in the plans. West Bank? Not too sure. Jordan? Out of the question! US ally.

Therefore, the issue of the whole of Arabia being the desired Israel is a figment of imagination. Though, that is excellent to whip up a frenzy when desired! And it also proves Goebbel right.

And anyway, if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride and hence one can always discount the radical elements of any society.
For similarity's sake, India accepted Pakistan and Bangladesh as a separate state but the Hindu Akhand Bharat ideology still demands all territories back.

When these parties win elections, thats when things become troublesome. Of course we can take some comfort that the all of of Araia scenario just details a minority's view not the majority's (which includes Gaza).
 
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-We must make distinctions when talking about "arab" regimes, because they are not comparable.

1) first we have the arrierating powerful islamo-wahabis usa-allies. Their center is saoudia, and they have NO SINGLE progressive project. in fact, their only war is declared against the othe muslim "kuffars" (that is, every muslim not enough wahabi). they perceive other arab nations, state models and islamic "sects" or "philosophies" as absolute ennemies, much much more than zionism or US emperialism.

2) then we have the arab secular progressists, where the heart is syria (and was lebanon before the civil war). their aim is to create a single arab country bi-religious (including christian arabs and muslim arabs with all their factions), and their main ennemy is naturally : US imperialism. whose main tool here, in this precise context, is israeli expansionnism or even israeli existence. USA (and behind it israel) will never accept to have a rivaling power in the region, especially if it is out-of-control.

3) we have the "old" countries that were either in 1) or 2), but renounced after many events : egypt lost the war with israel and partially its sovreignty (camp david agreements stipulate that egypt have not the right to put its army inside its own sinai...), jordan have "monarchic" dreams in iraq and want to save itself, and other arab or arabo-islamic states have no more any political project. they are just following the trends adn especially the orders from their main protector (usa), mainly from their own people (progressive movements, islamo-nationalist movemnts, islamo-imperialist movements...) .


-we must understand that the level of underdeveloppement (intellectual, political) in these countries is spectacular. NO SINGLE ARAB COUNTY HAVE ANY KIND OF SELF-RELIANCE, neither in economy, nor in politicsn nor in intelelctual movements, nor in industry, nor in technology, nor in MILITARY...

none.nichts.nada.rien.

THE WORST is that they have NO PLANS ot have ANY KIND of self suffucience. at the contrary, the huge "investments" these usa-allies (AND enven usa-ennemies ) autocratic regimes (monarchic or republican is jsut a label; syria have just invented "the hereditary republic", saoudia is a tribal monarchy, etc...) with the benediction of out side powers (mainly the NATO tribe) are aimed to BUY BUY BUY. simple.


if you want to sum up the situation lf arabs, its easy : there is NO SINGLE arabe state. there are arab or arabized or arab sepaking popualtions, but NO ingle arab state in the true definition of a state. no arab state is enough sovreigbn, autonomous or independant to be considered seriously that it exists.


This is why it is fundamental to never compare any arab state with states like turkey, iran, malaysia, india, pakistan. rather compare them to the poorest (politically and humanly, not physically) african countries, who also have no sovreignty and no plans to be trully fully independant.


-what I hope that you understand, is that the dream of full indepenandce, as much as the projects, is simply inexistant now in our countries.

this situation is amplified by the emergence of anti-nationalists movements, especially the islamo-imperialists , or nationalist utopists movements (i.e having no serious solid project for the nation) from the desperate populations. (you as asians can understand the despair is noit necessarily linked to economical situation, but also to identity/ideology; contrary to westerners whom the analysis is limited -on purpose- to economial/poverty problems...).


What does that means ? israel is able to do what she wants. if so, and if no one wants or CAN stop israel and create a counter-power to the 4th military power and let's be clear, the first mediatic, political and ideological power in the world, nothing will stop israel from pursuing its dreams of a srious long term survivable "vital space".


-about the withdrawal from gaza: israel is back. in fact, when zionsits talk about a palestinian state, they mean mostly a palestinian ghetto, with a puppet governement and no real indepandance. morover, the incidents of Gaza (kidnapping of the soldier) are just happening when Britih Gaz discovered a huge reserve of gaz in Gaza !


I ask anyone talking about israelis giving back what they've stolen to understand : israel NEVER gives back anything, WITHOUT gaining something BETTER.


remember: israel is a powerful, well managed, intellgient and brillant ultra-nationalist nation-state. this means that the israeli intelligencia is not some puppet corrupt stupid pseudo-elite, but rather they love their nation (beni israel) and want to serve it. this means, and they know it, that with or withotr arabs, wars, muslims or anything, israel NEED to expand. it may take 10 years or 100 years, but it's a logical necessity, otherwise, israel won't be viable to the 30 millions jews worldwide, or israel would be so much reliant on its lobbies outside (that could one day or another weakened , espcially if the citizens of democratic countries begin to understand ) that its 90% power (political, ideological, mediatic : remember, wars are first won and lost INSIDE MINDS and HEARTS) will be lost.

let's sum up : everytime israel goes to war, it wins territory. depending on the strategical importance of the territory (water, petrol, minerals, strategic place are strategical teritories) israel either take it definitly (watever the declarations are) or negociate it against a GREATER objective (sinai : egypt lost its full ovreignty, aligned with israel, was put under usa "care", opened its market and diplomacy. egypt "won" a desert). just remeber, sheba'a farms are full of water and are in a strategic region, they won't be given back. but hezbolalh will be disarmed and potentially, lebanon could enter in a civil conflict again (or at least a cold war between the factions).

the only countries who can deal seriously with israel and US empire are those who have genious chess palying elites, who can project and prepare the very long term and who have enough nationalism AND realism (not utopiand nationalism, but teh nationalism that gives con,cret results for the people and the military at least).
 
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http://www.counterpunch.org/

Weekend Edition
August 12 / 13, 2006

How to Deal with The Lobby
The De-Zionization of the American Mind

By JEAN BRICMONT

Americans are constantly told that they have to defend themselves against people who "hate them", but without understanding why they are hated. Is the cause our secular democracy? Our appetite for oil? There are lots of democracies in the world that are far more secular than the United States (Sweden, France ...) and lots of places that want to buy oil at the best possible price (China) without arousing any noticeable hatred in the Middle East.

Of course, it is true that, throughout the Third World, Americans and Europeans are often considered arrogant and are not particularly liked. But the level of hatred that leads a large number of people to applaud an event like September 11 is peculiar to the Middle East. Indeed, the main political significance of September 11 did not derive from the number of people killed or even the spectacular achievement of the attackers, but from the fact that the attack was popular in large parts of the Middle East. That much was understood by Americans leaders and infuriated them. Such a level of hatred calls for explanation...

More here : http://www.counterpunch.org/

USA interests are not well served by a foreign nation's lobby operation on american soil.

In fact, that's goes simply against the basic and fundamental american sovreignty.

the zionist PSYOP war is escalating. to prepare the populace for the next israeli wars.

Israel warns of “greater tragedy” if Lebanon does not change

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/Display...dleeast_August311.xml&section=middleeast&col=
 
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Salim said:
Jana,

Forgive me for stating that you journalists are the best lot to create the divisions and even hatred around this world.

Indeed Sir Ray.
However as the news always come to every part of the world after filtering from the big powers, the west so they are much responsible for the mess.
The news is based upon report from a former US ambassador and i had posted cuz the reflects the mindset of US government and its plans how it sees the world and drag it into war for changing the world map.

however its unfortuant while hoping to draw a new map for the world and specially ME, US citizens continue to pay for the Israeli plans.
 
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Asim Aquil said:
For similarity's sake, India accepted Pakistan and Bangladesh as a separate state but the Hindu Akhand Bharat ideology still demands all territories back.

When these parties win elections, thats when things become troublesome. Of course we can take some comfort that the all of of Araia scenario just details a minority's view not the majority's (which includes Gaza).

Unlike Pakistan which has a State religion, India has none and may the Almighty continue to shower this Blessing on India since religion is the root of all the miseries as I see it.

Hindu Akhand Bharat can ask for the moon. Who cares? After all, if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride!

BJP won and there was no trouble. In fact, they started the dialogue with Musharraf to end all this unnecessary rift with Pakistan. I am sure dialoguing with Pakistan is not an indication of trouble, or is it? I am of the view that it is a sign of a good start and not trouble.

When the RSS and other fool organisations started to show their ugly head, the BJP was shown the door most unceremoniously by the population of India. Therefore, the majority of the Hindus (and thank Heavens for that!) cannot be fooled by any claptrap call for religion as the bastion for identity and freedom.

The only answer as I see is that religion should be a personal preserve and not something to flaunt or wear on the sleeve to show dedication and loyalty. Those who require outward manifestation to indicate any personality trait are actually weak and soft in the head!

The BJP functioned fine. However, once the religious crap started interfering, out they went.

Likewise, everywhere else in the world, political parties should be reckonable for their principles and political identity and not win through blackmailing the electorate with religion!

Musharraf is ruling Pakistan and is acceptable to the people because of his policies and not because he is storming from the pulpit with Koranic verses!

That is why he is recognised and accepted by the world as the true face of Pakistan!

Religion has no place in politics or national policies!
 
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Jana said:
however its unfortuant while hoping to draw a new map for the world and specially ME, US citizens continue to pay for the Israeli plans.

Jana,

I think too much of "credit" is given to the Jewish "clout" in the US.

The problem of the Middle East started with the illogical division of Arabia by the colonial powers where nomadic puppet Sheiks, who were stooges, were brought into effect as effete rulers!

There is merit in Iraq's claim over Kuwait. Likewise the weak Saudis were overwhelmed by the religious hacks of Wahhabi persuasion. Neither can the Saudis control them nor can they ignore them! In fact, they are slaves to the Wahhabi.

These Sheiks and such effete satraps are too keen to keep their "thrones" safe and selling themselves to the highest bidder. Therefore, why blame the Jews?

I think it is essential to first, get your act together and then take on other dimensions of the issue.

Let me give you an example, one of this Forum's luminaries stated that US business will make an exodus from India because of "wrong signals" given by some State govt for banning the US Cola companies for pesticides content!

I say, who cares? For foreign money, must we decapitate our population?

Such logic is certainly misplaced.

Likewise, these effete Sheiks must be dethroned, if ME peace is to come into being.

Wadawada's posts requires attention. He is the closest to the region and has a greater understanding of the issue, at least I cannot claim any expertise remotely close to his!
 
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Salim said:
Unlike Pakistan which has a State religion, India has none and may the Almighty continue to shower this Blessing on India since religion is the root of all the miseries as I see it.
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Religion has no place in politics or national policies!

I don't agree. Not by principle, but by realism.

almost everything "serious" on this planet is pushed and pulled by religion some way or another. this is clearly visible in countries where there is a long lasting conflict. or a global policy that provoke/will provoke conflicts.

so religion has a de facto place in micro-politics and macro-politics. also, relgion plays a role in national policies, even under the moralisation or religious "nationalism" (mix between the religion of the majority and nationalism) aspects.

what should be done, instead of ignoring this and letting crazy psychopats hijack religions and use them AGAINST the real interest of countries (interest n°1: peace. this is the bare animal minimum), and letting "religion being the root of all the miseries" as you said, is to intervene in the nations' religions. this goes against "orthodox" secularism, but what is secularism anyway ?

if india tries to play the democratic game till the end, it could bring her BAD surprise. democray is a lottery, and india is not in a position to take such risks. morover, no one knows when extremists parties would gain power effectivly, especially that india IS a democracy, so it is necessarly influenced by foreign powers, who could find in internal extremists groups allies against external countries like pakistan. on the other hand, pakistan have the duty, at least in the name of her national interests, to put under strict control psychomuslims.


sorry if this post seepms plain stupid :D I recognize that I have few serious knowledge about the india-pakistan conflict. I should say that I hope sincerly that this problem be solved fast and clean. pakistan and india should have better priorities than to be mutually threatened by nukes.
 
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Wadawada,

Having lived last few decades in India, I would state that religion initially was not a factor in India's destiny. During that period, India could thus build the pillars of modern foundation i.e. industries and their like.

However, with the euphoria of Independence vanishing, the politicians realised that they had to bring out a new joker from the pack. So they brought in the religious divide and then to add a better punch caste divisions (called reservations).

The end result is: MESS.

That is why religion should play no part in politics; at least in India!

As far as the nukes are concerned, could I state that while the world thinks that India and Pakistan are made up of fools, let me assure you that both these countries are well aware that nukes are no answer to any problems. The world can worry about the sub continental nukes. I take the liberty of stating for both India and Pakistan that we are not worried. They are packed and safe!
 
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