AMCA : Together with Israel & France ?

[sancho]

Israel has recently formed a JV with Russian space agency to develop future satellites, so highly doubt we will face problem with them especially when they are rethinking about f35.

They are not rethinking, they simply have no option because of political pressure and now even buys 2nd hand F15s as a stop gap till the F35s will be ready.

I agree, Jumping from 4.5 Rafale to 6th gen unmanned one is not viable for France.

Of course it is, the earliest date to replace the Rafales in France is beyond 2030 and they have anything to develop a 5th gen fighter inbetween (NG radar, avionics, engine techs, new weapons, stealth design...) and with the Rafale/Neuron combo they are able to fulfill all roles, so it is highly doubtfull that they will go for an 5th gen fighter. Dassault will go for 6th gen like Boeing for sure and they even made comparable studies in the past:

Dassault FACE concept (Futur Avions Combat Enhancenent):

Boeings 6th gen concept:

 

[koushik]

Since France is not committed to F-35 program, they'll be more than happy to associate themselves with any 5th gen program. And if we select Rafale (which is more likely to happen), then the defense co-operation between India-France will be on a different level. And no one can offer the level of customization as AMCA platform can offer.

And Israel can play a significant role in the avionics dept, but making them partners doesn't seems to be viable option. Remember they rejected AESA radars deal with India under US pressure.

well in case of a JV with France we wont need to think about Israel developing Radars for us because the French Thales Group is a fantastic defence entity which can make high-tech AESA radars.Israel can help us with technologies like sensor fusion,EW capabilities etc.

 

[koushik]

Since France is not committed to F-35 program, they'll be more than happy to associate themselves with any 5th gen program. And if we select Rafale (which is more likely to happen), then the defense co-operation between India-France will be on a different level. And no one can offer the level of customization as AMCA platform can offer.

And Israel can play a significant role in the avionics dept, but making them partners doesn't seems to be viable option. Remember they rejected AESA radars deal with India under US pressure.

well in case of a JV with France we wont need to think about Israel developing Radars for us because the French Thales Group is a fantastic defence entity which can make high-tech AESA radars.Israel can help us with technologies like sensor fusion,EW capabilities etc.

 

[sancho]

I asked the same question to Sancho about a month back , about whether we could ask the French to join us in AMCA , since they do not have their own 5th gen programm yet , but he said that the French were not looking for a 5th gen programm and were going to add the stealth feature to Rafale itself , but i still believe that if all other major European countries are getting 5th gen planes then the French would also certainly want some. We should choose the Rafale and ask the French to join us in AMCA .

Germany will not have a 5th gen fighter, Sweden has some concepts, but mainly for exports and now own requirement for the next 20 to 25 years either. Spain has only a requirement, if they want F35Bs for their carrier, otherwise EF will be their prime fighter. So it's by far not like all major European countries wants let alone needs a 5th gen fighter. India on the other hand will get a 5th gen and 3 differen 4th gen fighters + a 5th gen UCAV, so we don't have a real need either.

 

[angeldemon_007]

I agree, Jumping from 4.5 Rafale to 6th gen unmanned one is not viable for France.

When India is trying why not France ?/

They are not rethinking, they simply have no option because of political pressure and now even buys 2nd hand F15s as a stop gap till the F35s will be ready.

Its not just Israel, many other countries are rethinking because of hiking in cost. Also what pressure ? Actually it will be nice for US if Israel opts out because their F35 are coming through donation. Normally US allows Israelis to make changes with their toys but not with F35....

 

[Banana]

There is no need of any Partner!

India wants to be a World Power! (A Pole in the World)

It needs to have a Capable Aerospace Industry.

United States and Russia are the only countries to have it.

China is striving for it.

India remains the only country to keep the potential to be one.

Only Very Large countries with Effective Financial, Capital and Technological Manpower can make such an Industry!

There is no other than the above 4 with the potential or capability to be completely Independent!

 

[tvsram1992]

Guys!does this mean story ends for AMCA?if russians were talking about jv for another stealth plane does that mean AMCA will be closed?

We got Su30mki's also Mig29's , did LCA was closed?

 

[Kinetic]

There is nothing wrong in going with partners in such big project. Above all this will make fusion of bests from the three countries as well as investment and risk sharing. I think India is in talk with Brazil regarding AMCA.

 

[KEETARP]

Any link for India - Brazil talks on AMCA

 

[Kinetic]

Any link for India - Brazil talks on AMCA

Yes. It came to light during rolling out of DRDO AWACS platform in Brazil this February.



http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/94405-first-drdo-awacs-rolls-out-2.html#post1507029

Saraswat also noted that the DRDO and Embraer “is going to join hands” as his organisation pursues a broad range of new aerospace projects, which include a 90-100-seat regional airliner and medium combat aircraft that aims to introduce an indigenous fifth generation fighter by around 2020.

“Dialogue [with Embraer on these projects] is ongoing,” Saraswat says.

Embraer deepens ties with India defence market

 

[KEETARP]

But what are technologies that Brazil can offer us -

Engine - NO (probably SAFRAN if Rafale wins MRCA)
Radar - NO ( Either EADS o ELTA )
EW/ESM - NO ( We are already into this with ISRAEL and Germany ( MAYAWI and LCH warfare suite)

Only stealthy weapons is one area , i can think of .

Rest all , we are already quite advanced. Don't you think so .

 

[MrIndianSikh]

But what are technologies that Brazil can offer us -

Engine - NO (probably SAFRAN if Rafale wins MRCA)
Radar - NO ( Either EADS o ELTA )
EW/ESM - NO ( We are already into this with ISRAEL and Germany ( MAYAWI and LCH warfare suite)

Only stealthy weapons is one area , i can think of .

Rest all , we are already quite advanced. Don't you think so .

Embraer of Brazil has A LOT of experience in the aerospace sector

 

[Maritimer]

India must keep the AMCA project to itself. No need for a JV, Snecma is already contributing with the Kaveri engine and Israel is (was) helping with AESA. It would be a wise move to get the Indian private sector involved in this project to speed up the execution.

 

[Kinetic]

But what are technologies that Brazil can offer us -

Engine - NO (probably SAFRAN if Rafale wins MRCA)
Radar - NO ( Either EADS o ELTA )
EW/ESM - NO ( We are already into this with ISRAEL and Germany ( MAYAWI and LCH warfare suite)

Only stealthy weapons is one area , i can think of .

Rest all , we are already quite advanced. Don't you think so .

Their overall aerospace industry is advanced and professional with huge experience mainly in passenger and transport aircrafts. Of course they can offer a lot regarding all areas. Having a partner of such level will add extra expertise to the project as well a customer.

 

[Tshering22]

France is already busy with NEUron drone. They are experienced but I don't think so that they'd be free enough to consider this option. Israel is a wise partner and fits the bill big time. They've made Lavi at a time when other countries had their 4th gen fighters with bigger capital. We've made Tejas now. So I think Israel alone will suffice. Brazil doesn't need a 5th gen jet as it is already powerful enough to deal with anyone around (except maybe the MKV armed Venezuela).