AMCA: Stalled

[DESERT FIGHTER]

No. Its 2014 .



Fifth gen fighter aircraft to be unveiled in India by 2014 - The Economic Times

i was talkin abt induction.. 2022 is still likely... anyhow good luck.

 

[Tshering22]

It is not surprising.

But at least LCA team has woken up and hopefully Tejas will join us now faster than the perennial delays till now.

 

[Chanakyaa]

i was talkin abt induction.. 2022 is still likely... anyhow good luck.

Hold On. We are Talking about FGFA and NOT PAKFA !! Both are Different and India Will Buy PAKFA as well.

He has also said that the Indian contribution would be in the form of joint work under the current agreement rather than as a joint venture.[100] The Indian Air Force is to receive 50 of the single-seat "Russian version" before receiving the two-seat FGFA

IMHO, That will be Close to 2018-2020.

 

[kurup]

Stalling AMCA to complete work on LCA .

If the earlier trend is any indication , bad for both the projects ......

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Hold On. We are Talking about FGFA and NOT PAKFA !! Both are Different and India Will Buy PAKFA as well.



IMHO, That will be Close to 2018-2020.

Here is a source saying the single seater will be inducted by 2020 before the twin seater which is planned to be developed:


Entering production by 2020:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=tfstS_QtFeWVhC0J3hCMnQ&bvm=bv.50165853,d.aWc


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=Lx4Wg4YycLz09TxqLiJ4gA&bvm=bv.50165853,d.aWc

Director of the JSC Sukhoi Design Bureau, Mikhail Pogosyan's statement to reporters, while attending the Aero India 2013 air show, seemed to imply this.
In midst of the deluge of reports that were being filed during the 5-day aerial spectacle, I seemed to have missed this development. In fact, this also helps makes sense of an earlier report. Paraphrasing his statement, he confirmed plans for developing a 2-seater & said the actual numbers of the two-seat & single seat aircraft would be announced only after the contracts were signed.

From aero india 2013..

India To Induct The Twin-Seat T-50 PAK-FA Fighter Variant After All, It Appears - AA Me, IN

 

[sab]

One aircraft is flying and in operational service and the other is not even close to its IOC. Apples and oranges. The Tejas either needs to be pushed through whilst holding off on key tech so that at least the IAF starts force integration and logistic planning properly. And production can be started on the airframe while the electronics come through. After all, the Harrier, The Tornado ADV.. all flew without proper production electronics and went into service that way so that the RAF could start integration and some replacement of types could begin.

It is not right comparison Bro. You can say Apple on tree and Apple in market. But, one person wants his apple to grow enough before plucking it and another person has already plucked it and wants it to grow in basket. If you read the long list of modifications to be done in JF 17 in the next versions, you know what I mean.

 

[Black Widow]

One aircraft is flying and in operational service and the other is not even close to its IOC. Apples and oranges. The Tejas either needs to be pushed through whilst holding off on key tech so that at least the IAF starts force integration and logistic planning properly. And production can be started on the airframe while the electronics come through. After all, the Harrier, The Tornado ADV.. all flew without proper production electronics and went into service that way so that the RAF could start integration and some replacement of types could begin.

So you also joined the slugfest??

 

[Gessler]

Finally a good decision. The priorities currently are to complete Tejas Mk.1, bring out the Mk.2,
sign the MMRCA deal, and concentrate on getting FGFA.

AMCA should be put on hold until Tejas Mk.2 is complete.

 

[Black Widow]

The IAF policy is to finished product, which will satisfy all requirements.

I know there is a plane which was inducted in one airforce (I won't take name else it will be slug-fest) without having Night flying capability...

USA is inducting its F35 even it don't fulfill all requirements.

Question is "Will IAF go USAF or some-country-AF way?


IAF never lower is standard, It want the best, no matter it comes from outside or inside india...

 

[Gessler]

I keep saying it, forget the LCA because its now becoming a mill around the neck of the IAF.. the AMCA is the program to go for. The LCA production can be limited to 50 or so jets as that is all that should be needed.

Actually you are totally wrong - it is LCA which is important.

As of the other point, with PAK-FA/FGFA JV going on, is there really a need for another 5th generation fighter?

Think about it.

IAF has done right by putting AMCA on hold. Once Tejas Mk.2 is ready and FGFA is inducted into
service (I mean, when HAL actually gains some know-now regarding fifth-gen aircraft), AMCA can be
brought back, but with an emphasis on ground-attack capability.

There isn't any need for anything beyond FGFA in terms of A2A combat, not before 2040 at the earliest.

 

[SQ8]

It is not right comparison Bro. You can say Apple on tree and Apple in market. But, one person wants his apple to grow enough before plucking it and another person has already plucked it and wants it to grow in basket. If you read the long list of modifications to be done in JF 17 in the next versions, you know what I mean.

So you also joined the slugfest??

Read my post again instead of being shocked reactionaries.

 

[Gessler]

It is not surprising.

But at least LCA team has woken up and hopefully Tejas will join us now faster than the perennial delays till now.

Ofcourse. HAL/ADA were unnecessarily wasting time & money on a plane that IAF never really
expressed any need for!

While at the other hand they were failing to deliver what IAF was asking for!

Truly stupid PSUs. I hope this decision will shut their mouth up for now.

 

[SQ8]

With All due respect,

Did you even understand my Post ?

I was explaining You Excessively FLAWED Post Regarding Scrapping LCA and Going for AMCA and I Brought forward the analogy that by no means you can Scrap JF17 for J20s.

( Do Note, that Both LCA and JF17 have been built , and delivered and both replace same kind of Aircraft F7s and Mig 21s and Both are Operational while All Fifth Gen Aircrafts Have A Different Roles and all are 10 Yrs away from getting Operational.

It would be wise to stay away from JF17s vs LCA here .)

Moreover, Plz Update Yourself.
LCA has Achieved IOC in 2011.

My excessively flawed post has a basis. The LCA program is coming too late and the Mig-27 roles can be picked up by further orders of the Rafale. The AMCA program has a much higher chance of success and earlier induction if all efforts are made toward the aircraft especially if there is the involvement of private venture into it. The LCA may continue, but its said role seems spurious in light of the lack of development by the threats the LCA is supposed to tackle. The Rafale an easily replace its role and provide the required force. The obsession with squadron strength may be overcome by inducting smaller number of LCA's at the current pace of the program or more Rafale aircraft.

Your reply was based on aircraft for pound.. while mine is based on required role and available capability/funds.

 

[Chanakyaa]

My excessively flawed post has a basis. The LCA program is coming too late and the Mig-27 roles can be picked up by further orders of the Rafale.

The Basis itself is 200% Wrong.

LCA is NOT to Replace Mig 27s but Mig 21s. And Build the Numbers.

Mig 27 is a Ground Attack Fighter. Mig 21 is an Interceptor.

I think.. you said something like.. Apples and Oranges... ? Fits very Nicely here...

I would admit, that Yes The Aircraft is Late, But since we still need to replace our Mig 21s This Aircraft with capabilities Comparable to Mirages is the best. Contender.

The AMCA program has a much higher chance of success and earlier induction if all efforts are made toward the aircraft especially if there is the involvement of private venture into it.

Are You aware what are Fifth generation Technologies and the Efforts needed to devlop the same ? Are You Aware that a similar Aircraft F 35 is Struggling.... and may even get Cancelled ?

Add to it..

Even if things go smoothly, India wont get AMCA b4 2025.... and we need Mig 21 Replacements NOW !

The LCA may continue, but its said role seems spurious in light of the lack of development by the threats the LCA is supposed to tackle. The Rafale an easily replace its role and provide the required force.

How can we De-establish the Role of an Interceptor.. ?

Can You Exchange/Replace the Roles of JF17s ( Light Weight Aircraft , primarily for Interception, Defensive Role ) and F16s or J10 ( Medium Weight Aircraft for Multi-Role Missions , Primarily for Offensive Role ) ?

To Conclude...Once gain.. You are Comparing Apples with Oranges....

The obsession with squadron strength may be overcome by inducting smaller number of LCA's at the current pace of the program or more Rafale aircraft.

Its Not "Obsession" rather Necessity.
LCA has more to do with Technology Capability and Self Reliance than Core Number Building.

Your reply was based on aircraft for pound.. while mine is based on required role and available capability/funds.

Firstly, If it was "Roles" than Once Gain You are Flawed as I have Explained Above. Role of Rafale and LCA are Different.

Secondly, You are Again Flawed... ( As you mentioned above.. ) If we can Afford Rafales where is the Question of FUNDS ?

With $50 Billion Budget. Funds is NOT and ISSUE for India. We Are NOT getting LCA coz we CANT Afford Expensive Aircraft.

 

[Dash]

Here is a source saying the single seater will be inducted by 2020 before the twin seater which is planned to be developed:


Entering production by 2020:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=tfstS_QtFeWVhC0J3hCMnQ&bvm=bv.50165853,d.aWc


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...=Lx4Wg4YycLz09TxqLiJ4gA&bvm=bv.50165853,d.aWc



From aero india 2013..

India To Induct The Twin-Seat T-50 PAK-FA Fighter Variant After All, It Appears - AA Me, IN

Therre wont be any structural changes to PAKFA.Hence why India will also get the single seater version. They dropped the idea as it was compromising stealth. Now the only part where it will be changed is purely avionics.