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Ambala to station first squadron of MMRCA fighters

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Every nuclear power has its reasons for first use and no first use. US has a first use policy, so does Pakistan, China, Russia and India has NFU. I assure you it has nothing to do with even a cricket ball.
The reasons are pretty straight forward... India is confident in its retaliation.. Oh, I agree it has nothing to do with cricket ball.. But those which you are so fascinated about.


Warfare itself is not a happy topic to discuss.
a limited conflict is much better to ease tensions and see things in perspective for the countries involved.. Nuclear war is the end of options, at least for the smaller one.

I am the link. You use your browsers as it suits you.
Hmmm, I wonder why you resort to junk talk when you don't say anything useful ;)
 
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Ask your fellow members here who are dying to see LCA in the air but you have to admit that LCA is a failed project.....
Yup its failed project yet we bought American engines for Mk I and MkII for raising squadrons and MK II wil be equipped with AESA radar.

BTW over 1700 sorties have been done without any failure and Limited Serial Production of LCA has already in motion.

But hey, its failed project and if it makes you sleep well in night, well happy ignoring.
 
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The advantage will always be on the side of the IAF, it has always been. India does enjoy a qualitative and quantitative advantage over the PAF at this point. In the case of a war, as time goes on, the advantage will progressively tilt in India's favor. The PAF's capabilities are significantly less than the IAF's to start with. And India can launch more sorties and pack a bigger punch initially. Although initial losses for the IAF would be heavy, as time wears on, Pakistan will not be able to sustain its significantly higher attrition rate.

The nuclear weapons usage will have to be discussed only if India undertakes an invasion or violation of Pakistani sovereignty in such a way to cross nuclear thresholds. A situation in which Pakistan feels that using nukes is the only way to safeguard its sovereignty. India is very well aware of the threat and this will definitely be factored in, in India's decision and strategy. As such, in the case of an Indian attack, India might also abandon the no first use policy, or even significantly monitor Pakistan's every move through the use of satellites and such and even launch a preemptive tactical nuclear strike to completely cripple its infrastructure. But this is a scenario that will never happen. India will never be the one to attack Pakistan.

So the only thing that can happen is for Pakistan to attack, and then be pressured to use nukes. This will never happen for a few reasons.

1. India has significantly higher second and third strike capability, using nukes. From the air, land and the sea. This will be disastrous for Pakistan. In case Pakistan ever uses nukes, India WILL nuke it, so Pakistan wont be in a position to stop a nuclear holocaust. This in itself should deter Pakistan.

2. The political angle. Pakistan wont be in a position to demand anything and will lose everything. Considering that Pakistan will already lose credibility even when they start the first conventional air raids. In the long term, this will be disastrous for Pakistan.

3. India being a much larger country by land area will be able to recover from a nuclear strike much better than Pakistan can

4. A nuclear strike on India is bound to not only affect India, but also Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Bhutan and even China. Because of fallout and contamination carried by wind. This will prove disastrous for other countries as well.

Given all these factors only a moron with half a brain, will decide to use nukes against India.



Not true. Compared to the IAF, the PAF is much weaker qualitatively and quantitatively. PAF has around 80 F16s and about 100 JF 17s. Forgive me if my numbers are wrong and feel free to correct me. These 180 aircraft, can be tackled by the 160 odd Su 30MKIs themselves. The only other aircraft in PAFs inventory are the Dasault Mirage 3s and the F7s. These outdated planes can very well be tackled by the Mirage 2000s and the Mig 29s. This is as per current fleet strength, without taking into account the LCA, FGFA and Dassault Rafale.

If after all this lengthy diatribe, what you mean is that war is not an option - I agree with you.

Secondly, PAF does not need quantitative parity with IAF. I think around 1:3 in hi-tech is appropriate to defend ourselves.
 
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Pakistan lacks this foresight. Not sure why.

It is for the Pakistani masses thinking that India wants to occupy Pakistan and of course it is a pass to carry on the mischief behind the curtains and not face consequences.
 
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Too many cruise missile fanboyz on both sides.If they were so effective both sides would have removed all aircraft from FOB's.
Missiles face
massive challenges.
1]guidance system-can be jammed or diverted
2]accuracy-highly doubtful if it can hit single aircraft or pinpoint strike on runways.
3]Early warning satellites.awacs are not there for fun.Aircraft will get airborne.
4]Anti air defenses.
5]Hardened aircraft shelters
6]Even if runway cratered repairs.
7]impact of air to air refuellers.
 
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Secondly, PAF does not need quantitative parity with IAF. I think around 1:3 in hi-tech is appropriate to defend ourselves.
The normal answer to quantitative superiority by an adversary is to have qualitative superiority however the PAF lacks this over the IAF at present and the quality gap is only going to increase in the coming years. I really can't see what the PAF can do right now given the state of Pakistan's economy and budgetary restraints. Using ratios is incredibly dubious as what the numbers don't tell you is you could be comparing 3 Rafales/MKIs to 1 F-7 so in capability terms it is more like 12:1 in this instance.
 
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The normal answer to quantitative superiority by an adversary is to have qualitative superiority however the PAF lacks this over the IAF at present and the quality gap is only going to increase in the coming years. I really can't see what the PAF can do right now given the state of Pakistan's economy and budgetary restraints. Using ratios is incredibly dubious as what the numbers don't tell you is you could be comparing 3 Rafales/MKIs to 1 F-7 so in capability terms it is more like 12:1 in this instance.

I said the ratio of 1:3 in hi-tech is appropriate to defend ourselves. I believe we are pretty comfortable and would remain so in future as well.
 
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The normal answer to quantitative superiority by an adversary is to have qualitative superiority however the PAF lacks this over the IAF at present and the quality gap is only going to increase in the coming years. I really can't see what the PAF can do right now given the state of Pakistan's economy and budgetary restraints. Using ratios is incredibly dubious as what the numbers don't tell you is you could be comparing 3 Rafales/MKIs to 1 F-7 so in capability terms it is more like 12:1 in this instance.

Good read. however don't show him the mirror else he will threaten us with nukes:woot:
 
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I said the ratio of 1:3 in hi-tech is appropriate to defend ourselves. I believe we are pretty comfortable and would remain so in future as well.

There lies the rub. Only 80 planes of PAF are/will be equal in technology to the bulk of IAF's offensive fleet. That too for a small while, as the Su-30 is due for MLU in 2015. Will not talk about Rafale as it is yet to be inducted or infact the final agreement even signed!
All the rest even in hi tech category of PAF fall in the middle ranges of IAF's fleet order.
 
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Misplaced priorities once again.

The myopic strategists worrying about a dead enemy that is on the brink of collapse rather than an enemy who is much more closer to home.
Ideally, Nyoma in Ladakh or Ziro in Arunachal should be the bases.
 
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There lies the rub. Only 80 planes of PAF are/will be equal in technology to the bulk of IAF's offensive fleet. That too for a small while, as the Su-30 is due for MLU in 2015. Will not talk about Rafale as it is yet to be inducted or infact the final agreement even signed!
All the rest even in hi tech category of PAF fall in the middle ranges of IAF's fleet order.

PAF's strategy is to add force multipliers so they can provide the back up required for her assets to challenge IAF fighters. The aim is to invest in early warning, electronic warfare, avionics, data linking and create a true network centric system. Your argument would hold weight if PAF was sending an F7PG blind against a SU30MKI, but backed up with support of the force multipliers the PG's chance of survival shoots up.

The quantitative advantage you are talking about. IAF will station atleast 3 squadrons to protect her Northern flank. For her Western Command, split up the fighters for AS, AD and CAS. There are not much fighters left for carrying out effective AS roles.

The entire premise behind PAF's strategy is to survive the war just for long enough. PAF realized long ago that they cannot win a long scale war against India, this is why the strategy has changed. Looking at the balance of numbers right now, PAF's odds look quite good for surviving a short war. You would really need to provide me with some strong arguments for me to think otherwise.
 
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Misplaced priorities once again.

The myopic strategists worrying about a dead enemy that is on the brink of collapse rather than an enemy who is much more closer to home.
Ideally, Nyoma in Ladakh or Ziro in Arunachal should be the bases.

Quite agree, Pakistan is an ex enemy, what we need to do is concentrate on the other border.
 
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Misplaced priorities once again.

The myopic strategists worrying about a dead enemy that is on the brink of collapse rather than an enemy who is much more closer to home.
Ideally, Nyoma in Ladakh or Ziro in Arunachal should be the bases.

Quite agree, Pakistan is an ex enemy, what we need to do is concentrate on the other border.

IMHO, it's not a good idea to place such sophisticated jets that closer to the border with China (too close for comfort), China also currently has bases inside Tibet but not close to the border, these move will only raise the eyebrows of China & will force them to respond to India in kind. We certainly do need deterrence vis-a-vis China but these moves will be seen as an aggressive moves by India which were totally uncalled for (we have already su-30mki bases in tezpur & elsewhere). We should not forget that 1962 was because of mis-understandings b/w China & India & also because of the Nehruvian blunder of Forward Policy, we can't afford another war with China on same misunderstandings. Anyways, Ambala is close to both eastern & western borders of India, as explained by sancho earlier, & so with extended reach of these planes, they can respond to any emergency scenario that India faces.
 
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