'Allah' for Muslims only: Malaysia's top court

[JanjaWeed]

what? You can't keep god for yourself..
Did Malaysian court take permission from 'Allah' before issuing this diktat on his behalf?

 

[The SC]

Christians believe in the same God as the Jews but also believe Jesus is the son of God,
which the Jews do not.
According to the Quran, Allah is the same god as the Jewish God,
so all three religions believe in the same God.

That is elementary logic.

Anyone that believe that they are different, are saying that the Quran is wrong,
and by denying the Quran, you define yourself a non Muslim.

I am not pushing an agenda saying that Christians must call God this and that.
I am saying that in a country supporting Free Religion, they can call their God
"God", "Allah", "Jahve" or "Mickey Mouse", and the government should not intervene,
and neither should you. If they feel that their message is best understood,
by using the same name for the same god, so be it.

Christians do believe that Jesus is the son of Allah/God/Jahve/Mickey Mouse, and
them saying it is thus not deceitful, and not allowing them to say this, is repressive.

I am sorry to tell you that you are a bit off the context, it all about the dissemination of thoughts (either by deceit or for provocation or harassment) rather than the own belief.

Some do, You have to see Jesus as separated from God, to make him a demi-god, which I don't.
The 10 commandments clearly says there is only one god, and I subscribe to those,
more than I subscribe to Christianity.

So, if some missionary comes to you and starts preaching that Jesus in the son of GOD you'll tell him your opinion about your belief in the ten commandments, won't you? and what if he keeps doing it despite your statement? wouldn't that be harassment ?
Imagine on a national level or even on an international level like it is the case with Muslim countries from North Africa to Souther Asia.

 

[gambit]

...the oppression of Muslims in Europe.

The Muslims in Europe are not oppressed. They are being regulated.

 

[Developereo]

The Muslims in Europe are not oppressed. They are being regulated.

This is a case of regulating the use of certain words because they were being used to deceive the public and commit fraud by unscrupulous individuals and organizations.

If there is a pattern of mathematics PhD's abusing the word 'doctor' to open medical clinics to deceive people, then the state has an obligation to regulate usage of that word.

Whenever speech is regulated, there will be unfortunate collateral damage, and the Malaysian Christian community is suffering that damage due to the fraudulent activities of cashed up Western missionaries. As noted before, Malaysian Muslims and Christians have co-existed for a long time. There were some informal, localized usage of the word 'Allah' by Malaysian Christians and no one had a problem with it. It was the organized, systematic abuse of that word by Western missionary organizations which precipitated this decision.

So, comparing this situation to Europe, can you show us a widespread pattern of Swiss Muslims building illegal minarets, forcing the Swiss to pass laws banning minarets? Or French Muslims using hijabs or veils to rob banks, forcing the French to ban them in public places?

 

[gambit]

This is a case of regulating the use of certain words because they were being used to deceive the public and commit fraud by unscrupulous individuals and organizations.

If there is a pattern of mathematics PhD's abusing the word 'doctor' to open medical clinics to deceive people, then the state has an obligation to regulate usage of that word.

Whenever speech is regulated, there will be unfortunate collateral damage, and the Malaysian Christian community is suffering that damage due to the fraudulent activities of cashed up Western missionaries. As noted before, Malaysian Muslims and Christians have co-existed for a long time. There were some informal, localized usage of the word 'Allah' by Malaysian Christians and no one had a problem with it. It was the organized, systematic abuse of that word by Western missionary organizations which precipitated this decision.

So, comparing this situation to Europe, can you show us a widespread pattern of Swiss Muslims building illegal minarets, forcing the Swiss to pass laws banning minarets? Or French Muslims using hijabs or veils to rob banks, forcing the French to ban them in public places?

You regulate what you want. We regulate what we want. Your lands, your laws. Our lands, our laws.

 

[Dubious]

what? You can't keep god for yourself..
Did Malaysian court take permission from 'Allah' before issuing this diktat on his behalf?

Educating yourself on the topic before posting helps to avoid humiliating yourself

You regulate what you want. We regulate what we want. Your lands, your laws. Our lands, our laws.

Yea hence keep to America

Whenever speech is regulated, there will be unfortunate collateral damage, and the Malaysian Christian community is suffering that damage due to the fraudulent activities of cashed up Western missionaries. As noted before, Malaysian Muslims and Christians have co-existed for a long time. There were some informal, localized usage of the word 'Allah' by Malaysian Christians and no one had a problem with it. It was the organized, systematic abuse of that word by Western missionary organizations which precipitated this decision.

Oh dont mind them...they are happy with their bible saying Tuhan rather than Allah which some didnt even like because even they dont associate the Christian god with ALLAH...

 

[JanjaWeed]

Educating yourself on the topic before posting helps to avoid humiliating yourself
.

hehehe.. don't flatter yourself my friend. At times it's better to understand the tone of the post before quoting someone! Never mind..

 

[Dubious]

hehehe.. don't flatter yourself my friend. At times it's better to understand the tone of the post before quoting someone! Never mind..

Words are dumb...The actions and the context is whats important.... and what gives them their voice

 

[notsuperstitious]

Malaysia is oly 60% muslim and is considered a progressive muslim state.

Think, how horrible situation elsewhere is. Look how retarded and inhuman muslims tend to be when in majority.

Malaysian family split by faith - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Malaysia 'convert' claims cruelty

 

[Developereo]

Oh dont mind them...they are happy with their bible saying Tuhan rather than Allah which some didnt even like because even they dont associate the Christian god with ALLAH...

Most Malaysian Christians use the word Tuhan, but some used 'Allah' . It was all innocuous and informal -- there was no malice or fraud intended -- and no one was too bothered.

The malice and fraud came from systematic abuse of the word by Western missionaries and, unfortunately, the Malaysian Christians are now caught in the crossfire.

 

[Dubious]

Most Malaysian Christians use the word Tuhan, but some used 'Allah' . It was all innocuous and informal -- there was no malice or fraud intended -- and no one was too bothered.

The malice and fraud came from systematic abuse of the word by Western missionaries and, unfortunately, the Malaysian Christians are now caught in the crossfire.

true...

 

[The SC]

RABAT (AFP) – The Moroccan government warned Thursday it would take a tough line against proselytisers two days after 20 foreign Christian missionaries were expelled.
Communications Minister Khalid Naciri said the government would be "severe with all those who play with religious values".

The Christians were expelled after religious authorities accused them of proselytism, illegal in the North African majority Sunni-Muslim country.

The warning also referred to Muslims of the radical Salafia Jihadia movement and certain Shiite Muslim teachers, the minister said.

The expelled missionaries included couples from Britain and The Netherlands who had adopted Moroccan children, the Open Doors international Protestant evangelical organisation said.

It criticised the government's move, asking in a statement whether "Morocco was taking a step backwards on the road to openness and respect for human rights."

Naciri dismissed the charge, stating that "Morocco has always been and remains a land of openness and tolerance."

"All churches have their place on the street in Morocco and Christians practise their religion freely," the minister said.

"The rare cases of expulsion have nothing to do with the practice of Christianity but with acts of proselytism."

Naciri said the expelled missionaries "took advantage of the poverty of some families and targeted their young children, whom they took in hand, in violation of the kafala (adoption) procedures for abandoned or orphaned children."

The children have been placed in a care home.

The Roman Catholic Archbishop of Rabat, Vincent Landel, and the president of the Evangelical Church in Morocco Father Jean-Luc Blanc said Wednesday those who were expelled "were not acting in accordance with the law of the Catholic Church."

Proselytism was "an act to be condemned," they said.

"Our goal is to take part in the building of a Morocco where Muslims, Jews and Christians are happy to share their responsibility in building a country where people can live together in justice, peace and reconciliation," they said.

Rabbi Joseph Israel, president of the rabbinical chamber at the court in Casablanca, also spoke out against proselytism.

"Morocco is a nation of tolerance," he said, according to the MAP news agency. "Here, we practise all religions -- Islam, Judaism and Christianity -- without constraints or limits."

"There is no place for the practice of proselytism."

On Thursday, Interior Minister Taib Cherkaoui and Minister of Islamic Affairs Ahmed Touqif had a meeting with Archbishop Landel, Father Blanc and Rabbi Israel, MAP reported.

The government ministers wanted to give the representatives of the other faiths "the thanks of the Moroccan authorities for their firm reaction and their immediate condemnation of acts of proselytism aimed at undermining our beliefs and our spiritual religious values," the news agency said.

Missionaries Seek New Converts in Morocco and North Africa

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http://www.usislam.org/pdf/responding-to-christian-missionsaries-tactics.pdf

http://www.usislam.org/missionaries/Missionaries-in-Morocco-and-North-Africa.htm

 

[The SC]

That is not how honest debating works, you can't make a claim and then when asked to prove that claim casually tell the other party to do their own research, or that you came across the information a long time ago, or that it's all over the internet.

I have done a quick search and nothing came up, if you claim this information is so easily found why not strengthen your case and post a link? I may sound passive aggressive but in reality i like a good debate and like with any good debate i would like links to support the claims of missionaries handing out visa's.

My claims were from some mostly french written rticles, and they dated to at least 10 years ago, but I have found something that might help exlpain the allegations (a link), it goes for the EU too:

The Religious Worker Path to a Green Card

If you work for a recognized religious organization, either as a minister or a religious worker, you might qualify for a green card as a special immigrant. You can apply for your green card as a minister or religious worker from inside the U.S.—if you are in lawful status and not working without authorization—or from abroad. You start the process by filing an I-360 petition on your own or through your employer. Whether you or your employer files the petition, the prospective U.S. employer must submit certain documentary evidence, including an attestation showing that certain requirements have been met regarding the organization, its history of filing this type of petition and the position and salary.

Now, the immigration regulations define a “minister” as someone who is fully authorized by a religious denomination to conduct religious activities, such as a minister, priest, rabbi, imam, ordained deacon, or Buddhist monk. A “religious worker” is defined as someone who is in a religious vocation or occupation and is authorized to perform normal religious duties, such as religious instructors, religious counselors, missionaries, religious broadcasters, workers in religious hospitals and cantors. Purely non-religious workers and volunteers are not included in this definition. Over the years the regulations defining religious occupations have changed and there has been litigation over varying interpretations. Someone attempting to immigrate under this category would be well advised to consult with an immigration attorney about their specific circumstances.

Seattle Immigration Lawyer Blog: The Religious Worker Path to a Green Card

This fact means nothing on its own, only when it is combined with the missionary tactics and the needs and aims of poor people that it takes full significance. I am proving here that missionaries can hire people, convert them and help them get an entry visa to any western country as religious workers. Would this be a trap? I'll let the readers decide.
I will try to find the articles and translate some if it is possible.

Here are at least 10 articles about the Visa relation to conversions (In French).

des visa pour les nouveau converti au christianisme - Google Search

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

So now, let us assume that some catholics start distributing some of their pamphlets concerning sexuality, praying to the saints and the the Pope in some majority protestant neighborhoods, what do you think the reaction will be?

Easy, Dustbin!

 

[Dubious]

Malaysia is oly 60% muslim and is considered a progressive muslim state.

Think, how horrible situation elsewhere is. Look how retarded and inhuman muslims tend to be when in majority.

Malaysian family split by faith - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Malaysia 'convert' claims cruelty

Yup a 2007 article brings the house down!

Yes 60% is still alot ....

Muslim (or Islam - official) 60.4%, Buddhist 19.2%, Christian 9.1%, Hindu 6.3%, Confucianism, Taoism, other traditional Chinese religions 2.6%, other or unknown 1.5%, none 0.8% (2000 census)