ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

[FedererExpress]

“East Turkistan, the bleeding wound of the Ummah, resisting against the persecutors trying to separate them from their religion. They burn their Qurans. They shut down their mosques. They ban their schools. They kill their holy men. The men are forced into camps and their families are forced to live with Chinese men. The women are forced to marry Chinese men” - Mesut Özil


This man is a true hero for speaking the truth about East Turkistan and the barbaric actions of the CCP invaders on the native Muslim population. Tibet and East Turkistan are occupied territories by CCP. These territories never belonged to the country called ‘China’.

 

[HannibalBarca]

Turkey and Saudi did.

Actually Muslim countries killed many communist, they were also not forced to believe.

Dont pretend to be angel, US made trouble in Muslim world but you are making trouble with others by exploiting the freedom of religious.

Well... I live in an alternate universe... never heard of a Turkish-Chinese war let alone a Saudi-Chinese war...
I do not need to pretend to be an Angel... since I'm Human... hope no Human does that...

Look... You know that the problem in the Xinjiang is a very special one... China fear an Independence movement from Uighurs... And that region is very very important for China... Most of China natural resources are out there... So she's trying to keep it... and one of the solution is to make sure that the Uighur Identity is under control... And you can't control that Identity without controlling the Islamic identity that is part of it...

If that region had no interesting ressources... we wouldn't be here speaking...

 

[Rasengan]

All those false claims were debunked many times with my many videos before, but if you don't see and listen, no one can help you.


You can wait, that's fine.

You didn't read my post properly did you? Put your emotions to the side and read what I said carefully. I admire the Chinese people but one of their biggest failures of the current generation is not thinking outside the box. If you read my post properly then you would have realized the solution in front of your eyes. Xinjiang won't become independent and the Muslim world will be appeased if the Govt can provide a full proof guarantee that the Uighurs are free to practice their religion. Writing a few articles and showing a few video's isn't the solution because most people believe it's controlled by the state

I don't need to watch video's as you know full well I have lived and worked in China. That argument doesn't work on me. There are 23,400 Mosque in Xinjiang so for starters, the Chinese Govt can show us proof that Muslims are allowed to pray on Friday across the region. Instead of taking the Muslim delegates into an educational center let them be allowed to roam free in Xinjiang so they can themselves attend the Mosque on Friday for a few months as well as the five daily prayers. If you have nothing to hide then this action wouldn't be difficult for the Chinese Govt. Don't you agree?

Furthermore, there is a big accusation against China that the Uighur's are forced fed pork in these educational camps. You can easily resolve this issue by setting up a body where Muslims from other countries can observe that halal food standards are met. I am not talking about the interference of re-educating extremist Uighurs and assimilating them within Chinese society because that job belongs to China. I am one of the few members on this forum that has defended China's interests, therefore, my recommendations are good-natured. Now before you respond read what I said carefully.

It's actually forbidden to seek independence/rebel from an entity if that same entity gives you the freedom to practice your religion freely.
BUT the moment when Islam and it's practice are severely restricted... without any hope to lift the restriction then it's Halal to fight back till it's restored.

This is what I am trying to explain to @beijingwalker. China will have nothing to fear when the Uighurs are given the freedom to practice their religion. We both know the answer but to educate @beijingwalker on this issue he needs to realize that the narrative of independence will only be broken if this point is highlighted and proven to the Muslim world. Otherwise, China will continue to be demonized.

 

[OIO]

Well... I live in an alternate universe... never heard of a Turkish-Chinese war let alone a Saudi-Chinese war...
I do not need to pretend to be an Angel... since I'm Human... hope no Human does that...

Look... You know that the problem in the Xinjiang is a very special one... China fear an Independence movement from Uighurs... And that region is very very important for China... Most of China natural resources are out there... So she's trying to keep it... and one of the solution is to make sure that the Uighur Identity is under control... And you can't control that Identity without controlling the Islamic identity that is part of it...

If that region had no interesting ressources... we wouldn't be here speaking...

It's not China wanted to make Xinjiang a religious issue.

Turkey and Saudi did in the background, a war doesn't mean fighting directly.

 

[Rasengan]

China want peace with Muslims... and Muslims want peace with China... Or do you see any Muslim country waging war against China? The only problem is how you treat CHINESE Muslims... that's the only thing... People aren't asking much... Just let them practice their religion freely... take out the restriction of religious practice... AND if after that Some Muslims use Terror acts or wish to separate from China then NO ONE will stop you...
.

The Chinese do want to have a good relationship with the Muslim world and vice versa. No Muslim country wants to wage war against China and the Muslim people have no hatred against the country from a historical perspective. You have mentioned it quite clearly. Muslim people don't mind China taking a harsh stance on terrorists but that shouldn't be at the cost of ordinary people who are law-abiding Chinese citizens from practicing their religion.

 

[HannibalBarca]

It's not China wanted to make Xinjiang a religious issue.

Turkey and Saudi did in the background, a war doesn't mean fighting directly.

No it's not... Actually the only vocal in this matter was Turkey... Where religion WASN'T the main focus in the first place... but mostly as a supportive gesture to a brotherly ethnicity...

BUT later on, China went into a direction, where Islam was Involved... then at this moment it became a Muslim problem that grow among the community... AND even more with all the later news...

If China kept it only under an "Ethnic" issue... Me and You wouldn't be here speaking... But China decided otherwise... and made it into "Religion".

As I said before... If Chinese Muslims were to practice their religion FREELY with no restriction... AND with that Still REBELLED/asked for Independence... Then NOT A SINGLE Muslim will have the right to object if China took certain drastic measures to counter it... Because such movement also happen IN Muslim countries... like the Kurdish exemple...

 

[Type59]

The han chinese in hong kong and Taiwan are not viewing "re-education camps" positively. I wonder how many han Chinese been put through re-education camps in the mainland.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The Chinese do want to have a good relationship with the Muslim world and vice versa. No Muslim country wants to wage war against China and the Muslim people have no hatred against the country from a historical perspective. You have mentioned it quite clearly. Muslim people don't mind China taking a harsh stance on terrorists but that shouldn't be at the cost of ordinary people who are law-abiding Chinese citizens from practicing their religion.

They think the Muslim word is equal to the Western one in behavior... They are seeing the World with one Optic... "China vs Not China" and therefore putting everyone behavior in the same bag... and they are taking the US as the primary exemple to apply to everyone...

They don't want to see that the Muslim world is trying what it can to make things right, like not taking direct stance against what is happening and pushing for a dialog While keeping exchanges going... But still they seems to find it impossible to grasp... or refuse to accept it as a gesture to find a solution.

As for Islam... The lack of Knowledge about Islam also play a huge role in their understand of the Dynamic of what is happening... Their only source of Islam is also under one primary exemple... and that's the US... Even though they have a very long History with Muslims in their own country... more than any other Western country combined... and yet it seems whatever is Pre-Communist China is thrown out of the window... as if it's outdated/useless...

 

[Rasengan]

They once were fully free, but they began to kill people and fire in the street, i don't believe freedom of religious, it's religious war in name of freedom of religious.

@beijingwalker You see it's poster-like @Char which gives the wrong impression to Muslims outside of China that there is no religious freedom in Xinjiang. Don't lecture me about a religious war in the name of freedom @Char. By that token, I can say the same thing about Chairman Mao when the Chinese people were fanatically waving the red book and killing people under the Communists ideology. If you want to live on another planet then be my guess. Your solution and the Chinese Govt's actions aren't working just like in HK where the situation has gone dire. The Afghan peace process will finish soon and what do you think a million armed strong fighters will do when the Uighur plight is brought to their table? Last time Pakistan was able to convince the Taliban back in 1996, but times have changed now with social media more easily available. Do I want this to happen? NO. Do I want to see Xinjiang and the Uighurs to prosper under the Chinese Govt? YES. For once think outside the box instead of following the same mantra.

 

[OIO]

No it's not... Actually the only vocal in this matter was Turkey... Where religion WASN'T the main focus in the first place... but mostly as a supportive gesture to a brotherly ethnicity...

BUT later on, China went into a direction, where Islam was Involved... then at this moment it became a Muslim problem that grow among the community... AND even more with all the later news...

If China kept it only under an "Ethnic" issue... Me and You wouldn't be here speaking... But China decided otherwise... and made it into "Religion".

As I said before... If Chinese Muslims were to practice their religion FREELY with no restriction... AND with that Still REBELLED/asked for Independence... Then NOT A SINGLE Muslim will have the right to object if China took certain drastic measures to counter it... Because such movement also happen IN Muslim countries... like the Kurdish exemple...

The separatists used the religion from the beginning.

@beijingwalker You see it's poster-like @Char which gives the wrong impression to Muslims outside of China that there is no religious freedom in Xinjiang. Don't lecture me about a religious war in the name of freedom @Char. By that token, I can say the same thing about Chairman Mao when the Chinese people were fanatically waving the red book and killing people under the Communists ideology. If you want to live on another planet then be my guess. Your solution and the Chinese Govt's actions aren't working just like in HK where the situation has gone dire. The Afghan peace process will finish soon and what do you think a million armed strong fighters will do when the Uighur plight is brought to their table? Last time Pakistan was about to convince the Taliban back in 1996, but times have changed now with social media more easily available. Do I want this to happen? NO. Do I want to see Xinjiang and the Uighurs to prosper under the Chinese Govt? YES. For once think outside the box instead of following the same mantra.

Actually there's no freedom of religious but freedom of believe, that's different.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The separatists used the religion from the beginning.

I remember the separatist mov... Their main voice was that China Invaded their lands... Islam was never used in the first days...
But when China decided to control the Identity by touching Religion... Then that SMALL group of separatist begun to use Islam as a way to increase their voice and rally ppl to their cause...
You guys are new in this game... We had it for decades in our regions... ISIS main recruiting saga is based on it... and before them AQ and before them Talibans and so on...

You gave them one more excuse to use against you...

It's like the US and their Drones... Where in hope to destroy Terros didn't care about the Dozens of thousands of innocent killed around... But the real Terro used it to rally people... And today China is doing the same mistake... you are feeding a beast and you don't even know it...

When the rally is Islam... be sure that they will come from EVERY corner of the world... like they did in Bosnia/Afghanistan/Syria/Iraq etc...

 

[OIO]

I remember the separatist mov... Their main voice was that China Invaded their lands... Islam was never used in the first days...
But when China decided to control the Identity by touching Religion... Then that SMALL group of separatist begun to use Islam as a way to increase their voice and rally ppl to their cause...
You guys are new in this game... We had it for decades in our regions... ISIS main recruiting saga is based on it... and before them AQ and before them Talibans and so on...

You gave them one more excuse to use against you...

It's like the US and their Drones... Where in hope to destroy Terros didn't care about the Dozens of thousands of innocent killed around... But the real Terro used it to rally people... And today China is doing the same mistake... you are feeding a beast and you don't even know it...

When the rally is Islam... be sure that they will come from EVERY corner of the world... like they did in Bosnia/Afghanistan/Syria/Iraq etc...

At least China is not dropping bombs in Muslim countries, i prefer ideology is part of sovereignty, don't bother each other, if you want freedom of religious you should accept other ideology to expand in your country. Mutual respect or not I'm OK to both.

 

[Rasengan]

They think the Muslim word is equal to the Western one in behavior... They are seeing the World with one Optic... "China vs Not China" and therefore putting everyone behavior in the same bag... and they are taking the US as the primary exemple to apply to everyone...

They don't want to see that the Muslim world is trying what it can to make things right, like not taking direct stance against what is happening and pushing for a dialog While keeping exchanges going... But still they seems to find it impossible to grasp... or refuse to accept it as a gesture to find a solution.

As for Islam... The lack of Knowledge about Islam also play a huge role in their understand of the Dynamic of what is happening... Their only source of Islam is also under one primary exemple... and that's the US... Even though they have a very long History with Muslims in their own country... more than any other Western country combined... and yet it seems whatever is Pre-Communist China is thrown out of the window... as if it's outdated/useless...

This is one of the major flaws in the thinking of Chinese policymakers. They look at the world under one prism without realizing the separate nature of Muslims and the West. This explains why the Chinese continue to fail to project a soft image in comparison to the American's who are obviously more aggressive in subjugating other states. I have mentioned this many times on this forum to Chinese members and even to my personal friends. HK is a prime example. The Chinese Govt didn't win the narrative. They are making the same mistake in Xinjiang. Like you said in your post their lack of knowledge of Islam is weakening their position. They can easily invite moderate imams to these educational centers and allow them to explain how terrorism is wrong in Islam with verses from the Quran and the Hadith. But if the Chinese Govt refuses this solution then they only have themselves to blame. Muslims will continue to point fingers and there will come a time when the people will force there respective Govt's to take certain actions against China.

Xinjiang doesn't even come close to the problems faced by Pakistan back in 2008-2011. We used force against terrorists but we also educated them on the doctrine of Islam which forbids taking arms against the state when the freedom to practice the five pillars of Islam is there.

 

[HannibalBarca]

At least China is not dropping bombs in Muslim countries, i prefer ideology is part of sovereignty, don't bother each other, if you want freedom of religious you should accept other ideology to expand in your country. Mutuel respect or not I'm OK to both.

No one said China drop bombs on Muslims... So can you stop with that...
Me, I want to practice my religion... BUT me, isn't part of the issue here... we are speaking about CHINESE MUSLIMS... or do you not see them as Chinese... and then it would be a problem...

Those CHINESE MUSLIMS want to practice their religion freely... and an entity is restricting them...
What we say is just what could happen in a near future with such restriction... as we saw them in the last centuries...
A way to exchange in a topic that you may not be familiar with...

As for Chinese MUSLIMS , they do accept other CHINESE BELIEF so in that logic YOU SHOULD ACCEPT their belief too...
Stop comparing yourself with others... we are speaking about Chinese ppl... I do not compare myself to you, neither you to me... this isn't the point...

 

[Rasengan]

The separatists used the religion from the beginning.



Actually there's no freedom of religious but freedom of believe, that's different.

Freedom of belief means nothing to a person when he can't practice his faith.