ALL Xinjiang related issues e.g. uyghur people, development, videos etc, In here please.

[Indos]

The VOA is US State Dept funded and BBG funded program for overseas broadcasting and for CPC members regardless of what religion the policy have been applied not on citizens but govt offocials however acoording to some sources I have seen is its not enforced or half assed enforced enforced that type of a thing @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan @Rasengan

This is from Indonesian delegation and Indonesian media:

After Visiting Xinjiang Muslims, This is the Step of the Indonesian Delegation

The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah visited the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region Province, China, last week. The visit provided a perspective and hope regarding freedom of worship for Uighur Muslims.

"After we visited, heard, watched and interacted with the local community, especially those who participated in vocational activities concluded, among others, the constitution of the Republic of China is very secular, meaning giving freedom to citizens to practice religion or not," said Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Division, Muhyiddin Junaidi when contacted, Tuesday (2/26/2019).

"Second, he separates religion from government issues. So religion is a personal matter, this public business has no business with religion," he continued.


While in China, the Indonesian delegation was given the opportunity to hold a series of meetings with clerical leaders, community leaders, and visits to the Xinjiang Islamic Institute along with several mosques. The delegation also visited the vocational training center in Xinjiang.

"This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.

Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.

"Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, put in radical groups. Then put in The vocation camp, not considered nationalist," Junaidi said.

This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.

"If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal matter, it should not be shown in the public," he said.

If you violate these rules, the potential to be included in the radical category until it is put into the training center. Junaidi found that freedom of worship for Muslims can be done in a special Muslim educational institution or mosque.

This condition certainly makes a Muslim very limited in worship. He said if this continued, the silencing of religious faiths happen.

"But what happens if this continues? Silencing the faith. Because religion will be uprooted from its roots. Especially in China it is determined that parents cannot force religious children unless it is 18 years old. In Islam it is recommended to teach children from an early age," he said .

Junaidi believes, wisdom is needed to understand this condition. Because, when compared to the constitution in Indonesia, the situation of religious freedom is truly in contrast.

According to him, a persuasive approach is needed so that the Chinese government can provide better worship space for Muslims who are there. In addition, he hopes religious institutions will also be involved in providing 'radical' interpretations.

"We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) is included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.

The same thing was expressed by PBNU Chairperson Robikin Emhas. Robikin hopes that religious organizations and other relevant parties will be involved in setting indicators of 'extremism' and 'radical'. So that there is no person who practices religion well but is categorized as radical.

Robikin who also participated in the delegation said that he was happy because the Chinese government was committed to anti-radicalism and anti-terrorism. He also supports the deradicalisation program being implemented. Even so, he hopes the Chinese government guarantees freedom of worship.

"We sincerely hope that the constitutional guarantee of citizens to embrace religion can carry out their worship according to their respective religions. We understand that the Chinese government separates religion and state. But because the freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution, it is hoped that citizens are also given the freedom to worship," Robikin said.

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

"Restrictions only apply to members of the Communist Party, who are atheists; government officials, who must carry out their duties; and university students who are required to attend s and heavy learning assignments, "he said.

So ruling party cannot be Muslims.

For some strange reason, students are forbidden to practice their religion.

These are violations of human rights and religious rights.

Why should they not strive for independence in this case?

 

[beijingwalker]

Why should they not strive for independence in this case?

Uighur police officers and PLA soldiers are all well armed by the government, every single one of them is loyal to China, the overriding majority of Uighur people are loyal to China, all those past terrorists arrested were reported by local Uighurs to the government first, that's why China can root out terrorism in Xinjiang in such a short span of time.

Terrorists have nowhere to hide in Xinjiang, that's why they have to go to Syria or Afghanistan to fight, but not Xinjiang.

 

[Rasengan]

YI could tell from their tone on writing tbh again I still think he is Pakistani from the way he writes

Of course, I'm a Pakistani. I am a proud Ghakhar. I don't need a certificate from @Dubious or @Indos or any other person on this forum. I have plenty of family members who have given their service to the country and are currently active. I joined this forum in 2013, not once did a moderator ask me where do I come from. My opinion is different from most Pakistani's because I have lived in China, I haven't sat behind a computer reading articles to judge the country.

In regards to @Dubious he can't handle alternative facts or a difference of a opinion. Notice how he uses personal attacks on @beijingwalker insulting him on his command of the English language. He doesn't read my post properly and is prone to an emotional outburst. Therefore, I refuse to entertain such a person. Him crying on the situation of Xinjiang doesn't change anything.

 

[Yankee-stani]

This is from Indonesian delegation and Indonesian media:

After Visiting Xinjiang Muslims, This is the Step of the Indonesian Delegation

The Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) and Nahdlatul Ulama (NU) and Muhammadiyah visited the Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region Province, China, last week. The visit provided a perspective and hope regarding freedom of worship for Uighur Muslims.

"After we visited, heard, watched and interacted with the local community, especially those who participated in vocational activities concluded, among others, the constitution of the Republic of China is very secular, meaning giving freedom to citizens to practice religion or not," said Chairman of the Foreign Affairs Division, Muhyiddin Junaidi when contacted, Tuesday (2/26/2019).

"Second, he separates religion from government issues. So religion is a personal matter, this public business has no business with religion," he continued.


While in China, the Indonesian delegation was given the opportunity to hold a series of meetings with clerical leaders, community leaders, and visits to the Xinjiang Islamic Institute along with several mosques. The delegation also visited the vocational training center in Xinjiang.

"This training center is alleged to be a concentration camp or re-education center," he said.

Junaidi saw the attitude of the Chinese government was inseparable from the trauma of the terror that occurred in the Bamboo Curtain country. The training center contains men and women who are allegedly exposed to radicalism.

"Broadly speaking, it is understood that the Chinese constitution is very easily misinterpreted. So Muslims should not apply their religion well in the public space. So they are not allowed to wear headscarves or prayers in public spaces. If found, put in radical groups. Then put in The vocation camp, not considered nationalist," Junaidi said.

This training center is filled with Uighur Muslims. They were given skills training there. The facts obtained there, the trainees were unable to worship freely in public spaces including the training center.

"If people fast, pray, are considered radical. It is not permissible in the camp. They can only offer prayers, read the Koran if they have returned to their homes. The issue of religion is a personal matter, it should not be shown in the public," he said.

If you violate these rules, the potential to be included in the radical category until it is put into the training center. Junaidi found that freedom of worship for Muslims can be done in a special Muslim educational institution or mosque.

This condition certainly makes a Muslim very limited in worship. He said if this continued, the silencing of religious faiths happen.

"But what happens if this continues? Silencing the faith. Because religion will be uprooted from its roots. Especially in China it is determined that parents cannot force religious children unless it is 18 years old. In Islam it is recommended to teach children from an early age," he said .

Junaidi believes, wisdom is needed to understand this condition. Because, when compared to the constitution in Indonesia, the situation of religious freedom is truly in contrast.

According to him, a persuasive approach is needed so that the Chinese government can provide better worship space for Muslims who are there. In addition, he hopes religious institutions will also be involved in providing 'radical' interpretations.

"We hope that the Chinese government will give Muslims the opportunity to perform ritual worship on the sidelines of their training. Participants are also entitled to Muslim food. Secondly, the CIA (China Islamic Association) is included in the process of issuing fatwas about radicalism, religious viewpoints. ask and hope that the Chinese Government does not generalize Muslims who carry out worship related to radicalism, "Junaidi said.

The same thing was expressed by PBNU Chairperson Robikin Emhas. Robikin hopes that religious organizations and other relevant parties will be involved in setting indicators of 'extremism' and 'radical'. So that there is no person who practices religion well but is categorized as radical.

Robikin who also participated in the delegation said that he was happy because the Chinese government was committed to anti-radicalism and anti-terrorism. He also supports the deradicalisation program being implemented. Even so, he hopes the Chinese government guarantees freedom of worship.

"We sincerely hope that the constitutional guarantee of citizens to embrace religion can carry out their worship according to their respective religions. We understand that the Chinese government separates religion and state. But because the freedom of religion is guaranteed by the constitution, it is hoped that citizens are also given the freedom to worship," Robikin said.

https://news.detik.com/berita/d-4447233/usai-kunjungi-muslim-xinjiang-ini-langkah-delegasi-indonesia

There is two Indonesian orgs out there one has competing narrative one says rights are being violated other says no in fact the Malaysian Interior Minister was in the PRC and some other group saw no issues in the Xinjiang region but Some Malaysian politicians were critical of reports you see the problem is the two competing narratives obviously rival powers and their drums of media influence will try to inflame or break relations I think Muslims should be careful we saw the same thing with Yugoslavia in the 90s,Iraq in 03,Syria on 2011 too many examples of competing narratives worst part instead of helping this causes further instabilty and more harm

So ruling party cannot be Muslims.

For some strange reason, students are forbidden to practice their religion.

These are violations of human rights and religious rights.

Why should they not strive for independence in this case?

There was an SCMP article a week back about two Indonesian groups competing for legitimacy again not taking sides here the domestic politics in Indonesia is kinda tight rope their President Jokowi had go through a nasty campaign with rivals slinging him as a non Muslim or of Chinese origin remember back in 1998 there was mass ethnic riots between the Indonesians and Ethnic Chinese during the downfall of The Suharto Govt and post 97 economic crisis Indonesia still going through issues tho I hope tensions will cool down

 

[Rasengan]

The fact that he hide his IP mean he may write in PDF from China.

You should mind your own business, you are nobody to question whether I'm a Pakistani.

 

[beijingwalker]

I don't think any people would try to rebel against a govenment which provides them with prosperity and great opportunities, most people are selfish, that's human nature, their first focus is almost always on their personal and family well being, as long as the Chinese government can provide this, it will be always supoorted by its people.

 

[Rasengan]

I don't think any people would try to rebel against a govenment which provides them with prosperity and great opportunities, most people are selfish, that's human nature, their first focus is almost always on their personal and family well being, as long as the Chinese government can provides this, it will be always supoorted by its people.

Most of these people are ignorant, there is no point in trying to debate them, its a waste of time brother. We both know what the ground reality is, so why do you need the approval of someone living outside of China. This is why I said to you before, the boss of both our countries wants a relationship, they don't listen to people on this forum.

 

[Yankee-stani]

You should mind your own business, you are nobody to question whether I'm a Pakistani.

This is stupid recent phenomenon here to claim someone is not the nationality they are with just cause some Mod or member has a grudge I had a Arab troll here call me a Iranian false flagger recently this is ridiculous the whole fourm intellectuals have left and are mostly on Discord like myself I occasionally post here or reply but sheese so many kids who think they know everything here and overt emotional grow up 99 percent have no connections to the PAF,CPC,Or any Government don't take things seriously sheesh

 

[Rasengan]

@OsmanAli98

Ask yourself this very important question. In one shape or form, the Pakistani Army and its intelligence service have been involved in Jihad across the world. We have never remained silent when zulm has occurred against the Muslim's. Therefore, do you think for one second that members of this forum have more knowledge than our military top brass? They would have questioned their Chinese counterpart and not allowed CPEC to take off.

 

[Indos]

There is two Indonesian orgs out there one has competing narrative one says rights are being violated other says no in fact the Malaysian Interior Minister was in the PRC and some other group saw no issues in the Xinjiang region but Some Malaysian politicians were critical of reports you see the problem is the two competing narratives obviously rival powers and their drums of media influence will try to inflame or break relations I think Muslims should be careful we saw the same thing with Yugoslavia in the 90s,Iraq in 03,Syria on 2011 too many examples of competing narratives worst part instead of helping this causes further instabilty and more harm

If you read carefully, all mentioned organizations which are MUI, Muhammadiyah and PBNU criticized Chinese handling in Xin Jiang. But PBNU is more soft on its opening statement due to its liberal tendency of Islam. But PBNU did criticize freedom to worship in Xin Jiang, radicalism interpretation by Chinese official, and acknowledge that pious Muslim may end up staying in the camp.

Junaidi himself as the person that is being quoted in the first writing said "we" instead of "I" so what he said is actually a joint statement from MUI (Indonesian Ulama Council), Muhammadiyah, and PBNU. There is no contradictory if you read it carefully.

 

[Rasengan]

This is stupid recent phenomenon here to claim someone is not the nationality they are with just cause some Mod or member has a grudge I had a Arab troll here call me a Iranian false flagger recently this is ridiculous the whole fourm intellectuals have left and are mostly on Discord like myself I occasionally post here or reply but sheese so many kids who think they know everything here and overt emotional grow up 99 percent have no connections to the PAF,CPC,Or any Government don't take things seriously sheesh

When I originally joined this forum, there were many intellectual people from all nationalities. But they have disappeared. Look at the language used in these debates. The worst is between Iranians and Arabs, now its between Chinese and Pakistani's I only come to this forum to read the news on Pakistan because it's compiled in one place.

 

[Yankee-stani]

If you read carefully, all mentioned organizations which are MUI, Muhammadiyah and PBNU criticized Chinese handling in Xin Jiang. But PBNU is more soft on its opening statement due to its liberal tendency of Islam. But PBNU did criticize freedom to worship in Xin Jiang, radicalism interpretation by Chinese official, and acknowledge that pious Muslim may end up staying in the camp.

Junaidi himself as the person that is being quoted in the first writing said "we" instead of "I" so what he said is actually a joint statement from MUI (Indonesian Ulama Council), Muhammadiyah, and PBNU. There is no contradictory if you read it carefully.

Of course you being being Indonesian your views would differ okay but like you said the two groups disagree on what they see or what was infer which makes it hard for views to be taken seriously I am not taking sides with no one here but folks are coming with different reports from all over and thiss reeks of past failed humanitarian interventions we have seen in two decades where we seen stability in many parts of the Islamic world fray for benefit of various powers and interests

When I originally joined this forum, there were many intellectual people from all nationalities. But they have disappeared. Look at the language used in these debates. The worst is between Iranians and Arabs, now its between Chinese and Pakistani's I only come to this forum to read the news on Pakistan because it's compiled in one place.

Its become a circus it was always a circus when I was a lurker for several yeara but its been progressively getting worse you did have arguements on Xinjiang and harsh rebukes from all types of matters but it was occassionally I feel something is up one thing I am glad its mostly a diaspora fourm so expats have no influence on Pakistani policy be it domestic or foreign affairs

 

[Indos]

You should mind your own business, you are nobody to question whether I'm a Pakistani.

You should read this if you are a Muslim Pakistani

The believing men and believing women are allies of one another. They enjoin what is right and forbid what is wrong and establish prayer and give charity and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah will have mercy upon them, for Allah is Almighty and Wise.

Surat al-Tawba 9:71

The Muslims are like a single man. If the eye is afflicted, then the whole body is afflicted. If the head is afflicted, then the whole body is afflicted.

Source: Ṣaḥīḥ Muslim 2586, Grade: Sahih

“A Muslim is a brother of another Muslim, so he should not oppress him, nor should he hand him over to an oppressor. Whoever fulfilled the needs of his brother, Allah will fulfill his needs; whoever brought his (Muslim) brother out of a discomfort, Allah will bring him out of the discomforts of the Day of Resurrection, and whoever screened a Muslim, Allah will screen him on the Day of Resurrection . “

(Sahih al-Bukhari, Kitab al-Muzalim)

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I don't think any people would try to rebel against a govenment which provides them with prosperity and great opportunities, most people are selfish, that's human nature, their first focus is almost always on their personal and family well being, as long as the Chinese government can provide this, it will be always supoorted by its people.

All this is meaningless without freedom of religion.

You don’t understand the Islamic mindset, esp of Turks and Pakistanis, who view Islamic heritage as a source of pride.

Rights to perform the obligatory actions in Islam must be allowed, otherwise Xinjiang will split from China.

It is for your own country’s benefit to moderate your approach to your Islamic population to save your country.