ALH Dhruv Crashes At Ecuador Military Parade

[ouiouiouiouiouioui]

some people are happy.....but facts have to be digested ......there is still a chopper.....somewhere which is still flying..........

 

[Spitfighter]

The title doesn't reflect the true nature of the situation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the choppers and now that the cause of the crash has been determined there's no reason for Ecuador to return them. yet the thread started refuses to change the title, whatever, doesn't change reality now does it?

 

[baba firangi]

lets just say that international business dosen't work the way HAL does

Oh Comeon.. Then maybe the international business works the way Pak defence establishment do... 100 % rate of success... Not one Failure.. Surely You guys got a midas' touch.. Anything you do turns ito success.. Wonder why you dont control a good chunk of the international defence market.. Please dont bluff yourself.. If your government never discloses the other side of pakistani projects and their failure, it definitely shows weakness on their part.. In india HAL has a to be accountable to the Indian Republic.. And any Sensible person will say Success and failure go hand in hand.. Many of our defence projects are successful, which nobody here will acknowledge.. At the same time many of our projects are mired in failure.. Isnt that the most natural thing to happen when Thousands of projects run hand in hand in various agencies in this country..
Unfortunately people here have taken it to run the gauntlet that every thing that chrns out of indiaan workshop is a failure.. While we at India wonder how come every one of pakistani project is a grand success.. Seriously... Can any one here in this forum name a single pakistani defence project that officially failed??.. Anybody here can name hundreds of American, russian,european and thousands of Indian project that failed.. Hope somebody comes up with the list of ONE pakistani project that officially was a failure..

Anyways.. As far as international defence business is concerned, even F-16s have run into accidents.. Does that stop your government from drooling over every chance to acquiring more??.. Every Aircrafts (Yes helis are also aircrafts) meet with accidents(until and unless its a flying carpet).. And accidents are not one and all of the factors which determine an aircrafts acquision.. Quality and safety do..

 

[bigmoneymaker]

incredible india will achieve incredible world records!!!! i have faith in you!!

 

[amunhotep]

A cartoon of the DHRUV was printed in an ecuadorian newspaper


here is the link

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2009/11/dhruv-cartoon-in-ecuadorian-newspaper.html

 

[gogbot]

A cartoon of the DHRUV was printed in an ecuadorian newspaper


here is the link

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: Dhruv Cartoon In Ecuadorian Newspaper

Ya man its like a multi-role helicopter, it can do a lot of things
That's the brilliance of its Design, they are just acknowledging its multitude of capabilities.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Even an F22 Crashes.
But still no doubt, a crash means there is something to improve : Pilot or the Machine.

Same goes for ALH.

 

[navtrek]

 

[shravan]

lol. nice cartoon.

 

[RPK]

HAL will Prosecute those who question Dhruv purchase

No engine change

Juan Cortez, representative of the Indian company, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in Ecuador, denied yesterday that Dhruv helicopters are not capable of flying in Ecuador and said the ships were in "perfect condition" to operate.

Cortez said that the company will sue those who questioned the purchase of seven Dhruv helicopters conducted a year ago by the Ecuadorian Air Force (FAE).

The defendants said Assemblyman Fausto Cobo (PSP). For the year of manufacture of the engines of four of the five helicopters that were delivered in April, said that in the contract, specifying that it sought only FAE new helicopters. "It was noted in any of the terms of the contract, the year of manufacture of engines," he said.

The executive said the company did not breach the contract and explained that engines must be changed after 2 thousand flight hours. "At the moment these will not be changed," he said.

About the accident that one of the Dhruv suffered last Oct. 27, reported that technicians removed the HAL and voice recorders and data from ships, which will be reviewed by the Accident Investigation Board (IAEA).

Meanwhile, Defense Minister Javier Ponce, admitted yesterday that, in early September, he ordered an audit of the contract because it found that some helicopters did not meet the technical specifications set out therein. For his part, Rodrigo Bohorquez, commander of the SAF, blamed the National Defense Commission which negotiated the contract. (VYJ-MING)

HAL enjuiciará a quienes cuestionan compra Dhruv - Diario HOY|Noticias del Ecuador y del Mundo - Hoy Online

 

[PAFAce]

Anyways.. As far as international defence business is concerned, even F-16s have run into accidents.. Does that stop your government from drooling over every chance to acquiring more??.. Every Aircrafts (Yes helis are also aircrafts) meet with accidents(until and unless its a flying carpet).. And accidents are not one and all of the factors which determine an aircrafts acquision.. Quality and safety do..

The first part of your post is complete bull, so I won't reply to that. The second part is interesting in that you have compared a relatively new, low-cost, untested helicopter, designed by a company with relatively little experience in the sector, with one of the most successful aircraft designs, proven by combat experience and years of development, ever produced. You're not the only one to do so, others have done so as well. And then you guys all claim to be experts in how the "defence industry works". Well, I'm not an expert, but let me tell you how it works from personal experience.

The Aerospace industry, particularly defence and space related applications, have very high self-imposed standards and procedures (at least in North America and Europe), which is why you don't see any Russian or Chinese commercial aircraft in service in the West. These standards are there to ensure that accidents such as these do not happen, period. Systems that are critical for the aircraft to stay in the air are termed "Type A" systems in North America, and they undergo Verification & Validation of the most extreme nature. This includes layers upon layers of internal and external testing, reviews, analysis, audits, and so on. For a Type A system to fail, and cause the aircraft to crash, is an extremely big deal. I can't stress this enough, Aerospace engineers don't even like saying the word "crash". So please, stop downplaying the importance of this incident.

I did not want to engage in speculation, not because I am afraid of being flamed by those who know little about the procedures, but because it would be unfair to your engineers. However, all this hooting and hollering about "great design! pilots safe! no fire! let's call it a day!" has forced me to speculate. Eye-witness accounts say that flames were seen coming from the engine bay. Pilot error cannot be blamed for flames emanating from the engine. Maybe this was caused, somehow, due to the steep banking at low level (FOD maybe?), but whatever it was, I am certain Ecuador and all other potential customers would want it to be rectified ASAP. Dhruv fleet will be grounded, no doubt, until it is determined, without a shadow of a doubt, that aircraft system(s) had nothing to do with the crash. For a new helicopter trying to make it into a new market, this is bad publicity. This is nothing like an F-16 crash in 2009, the F-16 has earned its trust over many years, the Dhruv hasn't. HAL engineers will have no such fantasies, I can assure you.

 

[baba firangi]

The first part of your post is complete bull, so I won't reply to that.

I admit to that.. Got too carried away..

The second part is interesting in that you have compared a relatively new, low-cost, untested helicopter, designed by a company with relatively little experience in the sector, with one of the most successful aircraft designs, proven by combat experience and years of development, ever produced.

Here I beg to differ.. While ALH may be a relatively new, low-cost helicopter, its definately not an untested one.. It does service at the highest battlefield in the world- Siachen..

You're not the only one to do so, others have done so as well. And then you guys all claim to be experts in how the "defence industry works". Well, I'm not an expert, but let me tell you how it works from personal experience.

Personal experience... I see..

The Aerospace industry, particularly defence and space related applications, have very high self-imposed standards and procedures (at least in North America and Europe), which is why you don't see any Russian or Chinese commercial aircraft in service in the West. These standards are there to ensure that accidents such as these do not happen, period. Systems that are critical for the aircraft to stay in the air are termed "Type A" systems in North America, and they undergo Verification & Validation of the most extreme nature. This includes layers upon layers of internal and external testing, reviews, analysis, audits, and so on. For a Type A system to fail, and cause the aircraft to crash, is an extremely big deal. I can't stress this enough, Aerospace engineers don't even like saying the word "crash". So please, stop downplaying the importance of this incident.

Great analysis.. Extremely informative.. But then even western systems have crashed in their early phases.. As a matter of fact F-16, which you yourself consider a most tried and combat proven fighter, crashed in october 1979, barely an year after its formal introduction into the USAF, due to engine failure.. You see, even the most regourous testings may not be enough at times and some flaws escape undetected.. Its the continous stremlining and improvemets in design over time that leads to a battle-tested machine.. And attaining that status takes a long long time.. ALH similarly is not flawless.. But it would be very unfair to dismiss it ooff so early in its life-cycle.. Give it time.. It will grow..

I did not want to engage in speculation, not because I am afraid of being flamed by those who know little about the procedures, but because it would be unfair to your engineers. However, all this hooting and hollering about "great design! pilots safe! no fire! let's call it a day!" has forced me to speculate.

Ok.. So that was just your personal speculation??.. No problems.. You can speculate your heart out.. That is what is an essence of a democratic discussion.. We have no objections.. Your speculation can in no way be unfair to our engineers.. Its just your speculation after all..

Eye-witness accounts say that flames were seen coming from the engine bay. Pilot error cannot be blamed for flames emanating from the engine. Maybe this was caused, somehow, due to the steep banking at low level (FOD maybe?),

End of your speculation i suppose..

but whatever it was, I am certain Ecuador and all other potential customers would want it to be rectified ASAP.

Rectified ASAP??.. Maybe.. But before that they really need to fiund out where the problem originated from.. Wether it was a human error, or there really was something wrong with the mechanics.. And for that reason, its the Enquiry into the accident that needs to be completed ASAP..

Dhruv fleet will be grounded, no doubt,

Where did you get that idea from?.. Aircrafts arent grounded until a structural flaw is glaringly visible or there is too much of ambiguity regarding the possible causes of mishap, which in this case seems to point more towards a pilot error.. But then, everything is under scanner right now.. Only after the Commision reaches its conclusion can something be said in concrete..

until it is determined, without a shadow of a doubt, that aircraft system(s) had nothing to do with the crash. For a new helicopter trying to make it into a new market, this is bad publicity. This is nothing like an F-16 crash in 2009, the F-16 has earned its trust over many years, the Dhruv hasn't. HAL engineers will have no such fantasies, I can assure you.

So very true mate.. We all agree.. The going just got tougher for HAL...

 

[paritosh]

well let me update you

after the crash the ecuadorians have gone for 2 new Mi-17Es, instead of 2 new DHRUVs

the link in my first post says it all

Mi-17s are heavy lift helis...while ALH dhruvs are not.
you can't compare a Chinook to an allouette.

 

[RPK]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: PHOTOS: Dhruv Flights Resume In Ecuador

These are the latest photos of Dhruv flights resuming in Ecuador. More shortly.

 

[RPK]

LiveFist - The Best of Indian Defence: 'Dhruvs Best In Their Class, No Question Of Returning Them' - Ecuador's Defence Minister

'Dhruvs Best In Their Class, No Question Of Returning Them' - Ecuador's Defence Minister

While providing testimony to an Assembly Committee on International Affairs analysing the Dhruv helicopter crash of October 27, Ecuador's Defence Minister Javier Ponce yesterday called the Dhruv the best choice for the country's air force, and ruled out returning the remaining helicopters to India as a consequence of the accident.

"There is no reason to return the machines. There was a very clear decision that this was the best choice and the best offer. The helicopters will be back to full operational status after Accident Investigation Board delivers its report on November 26," he said.