Al-Rasub, new weapon in development?
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Riz
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I have read somewhere we are working a long range ground to air missile system in project AZM... @Bilal Khan (Quwa) sir its true???
Bilal Khan (Quwa)
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Riz
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Pak’s Indigenous Fifth Gen Fighter Completes Initial Conceptual Design Phase
Our Bureau
05:51 AM, October 14, 2019
4581
JF-17 Thunder
Pakistan’s “Project Azm” whose centrepiece involves development of its own fifth generation fighter has accelerated, with first of the four “conceptual design phase” cycles being concluded.
“First cycle of conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes,” Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production’s (MoDP) yearbook for 2017-2018, states.
Launched in 2017, Project Azm includes Islamabad’s fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program, a stealth-capable medium-altitude and long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (MALE UAV), new munitions and smart long-range surface-to-air missile systems.
In terms of the FGFA, in a recent interview with the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan, stated that he does not expect the FGFA to become operational for “another decade.”
“The design work of the MALE UAV is in its final stages,” PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman, had said in 2017.
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ter_Completes_Initial_Conceptual_Design_Phase
Bilal Khan (Quwa)
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hmmm...tbh, not sure where they got that info, I didn't come across it anywhere.Pak’s Indigenous Fifth Gen Fighter Completes Initial Conceptual Design Phase
Our Bureau
05:51 AM, October 14, 2019
4581
JF-17 Thunder
Pakistan’s “Project Azm” whose centrepiece involves development of its own fifth generation fighter has accelerated, with first of the four “conceptual design phase” cycles being concluded.
“First cycle of conceptual design phase has been completed. The first configuration that was designed based on the challenging performance requirements of Pakistan Air Force (PAF) will go through three more cycles within the conceptual design using higher fidelity analysis tools and codes,” Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production’s (MoDP) yearbook for 2017-2018, states.
Launched in 2017, Project Azm includes Islamabad’s fifth-generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) program, a stealth-capable medium-altitude and long-endurance unmanned aerial vehicle (MALE UAV), new munitions and smart long-range surface-to-air missile systems.
In terms of the FGFA, in a recent interview with the PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Mujahid Anwar Khan, stated that he does not expect the FGFA to become operational for “another decade.”
“The design work of the MALE UAV is in its final stages,” PAF Chief of Air Staff (CAS) Air Chief Marshal (ACM) Sohail Aman, had said in 2017.
https://www.defenseworld.net/news/2...ter_Completes_Initial_Conceptual_Design_Phase
Basel
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But it is said that US already have means to protect its systems from it, so India will also get that capacity as west is very cosy with them.
khanasifm
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Come on comparing USA and India a third world where there are not enough tv toilets
Please stop comparing third world to first there is 100 years to catch up thirteen trillion economy to few hundred billion which is more than next 10 or so first world counties
In fact even the EU cannot compete
WaLeEdK2
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We should work on Counter-EMP products.
EMP the EMP missiles before it EMP's us.
The pinnacle of thought
Khafee
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No mention of Pantsir-S1, already deployed in Multan?
Basel
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They have money and they are heavily investing it on military systems.
Rafeh
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In the first conceptual phase, they likely have selected set of configurations that satisfy broad aerodynamics, stealth and other requirements (depending on how Pakistan defines "conceptual phase")
In phase 2 or 3, Pakistan will likely construct simulation-based/surrogate models that can be used to later jointly optimize aerodynamics, and stealth subject to structural constraints (i.e. inverse design studies). or may be depending on computing power available jointly optimize aerodynamics, stealth and structural topology simultaneously (e.g. topology, that is shape and form of internal/external structures) along with combinatorial studies for appropriate materials selection and layering of such materials (say for example to create appropriate distributed dielectric characteristics for a set of components so that internal multi-path scattering leads to maximum absorption of incident radar energy, enhancing stealth significantly). Though with current mathematics its not possible to synthesis an entire aircraft by using some universal optimization approach. WE still have to work on various subsystem individually and in very ad hoc, mostly trial and error manner. Pakistan will have to do the same.
Still in 2 or 3 years we should know detailed shape of the aircraft pretty close to the final prototype. Since internal structural components and subsystems thanks to multi-path scattering and complicated interactions can cause significant rise in RCS in various sectors, the next phase will focus on enhancing stealth optimizing structural design along with material selections (using a combination of meta heuristic methods and along more rigorous classical optimization approaches, since that's best what current applied mathematics offers).
However, to validate rigorously and create trust worthy models that can be used to optimize stealth, Pakistan will need access to advanced Electromagnetic testing chambers (and open air ones too). One can in principle use extremely high resolution computational electrodynamics studies to develop very accurate simulation based models that can be used to say optimize shape of aircraft (for aerodynamics and stealth etc.) and its various components but that path requires advanced super-computing facilities requiring upgrade of our existing ones. At the end we would still need to validate our designs using experimental facilities anyway even when with very best super-computing facilities. Pakistan has such fundamental RCS testing facilities. But we would need need very high resolution one. May be china will give us access. Though Pakistan can quite easily upgrade our own facilities on its own as long as we have funds in the future. its basically about the money. Rest is all off the shelves and easily accessible. Turkey too has such facility. We can use that to save money.
At the end we would be also upgrading our existing super-computing facilities so that we can use computationally intensive high resolution time domain approaches along computationally less intensive frequency domain approaches on full scale aircraft for inverse stealth/aerodynamic optimization (i.e. to reduce RCS in various selected sectors for a given aerodynamic performance).
That would lead to true 5th generation high performance stealth aircraft. Since basically its about joint optimization at the end (ignoring flight control etc.) either based on exact fundamental laws (e.g. Maxwell's equations, navier stokes equations etc) or their approximations for a given configuration(s) (e.g. surrogate models etc.). Whether exact or approximate we would need decent high performance computing in material terms. That's something is well within our reach. Pakistan already has very decent cluster based high performance computing facilities. They are being used right now. some upgrade will help a long way.
It will likely take 2 more years of inverse aerodynamic/electrodynamics studies along with structural studies to come up with final optimized shape and form. Though Pakistan might take 3 depending on computing facilities.
Pakistan already has access to both commercial codes that can even deal with moving boundaries (e.g. time dependent scattering variations of moving components such as engines, flexible wings as they deform etc.) and I know for a fact that even NESCOM has developed its own in house, both time domain and frequency domain electromagnetic scattering analysis software. They can be configured to carry out inverse design studies (e.g. find the shape that restricts RCS in specified sectors to certain ranges while providing the required aerodynamics performance etc. ).
In Other words Pakistan has access to both general commercial and specialized software that it needs. That's what the defense department report was alluding to when it said that Pakistan would use high fidelity codes in phase 2 and later. Now its a matter of time and money. More money will shorten the development time and vice versa.
We don't need nor will acquire J-31 design (as some chinese and even some Pakistanis assume on this forum). The whole aim of project azm is to gain experience on a full scale stealth aircraft design. We already know how to jointly optimize something (i.e. design an aircraft). We need experience on a complex project like azm to apply such know how and further improve our expertise. The aim of project azm is to develop such expertise and become confident that we can do complex things. Pakistan intend to create real expertise via project azm.
Not the design and theoretical studies but its the specialized manufacturing where Pakistan needs to make progress in the next decade so that we can manufacture as much as possible in Pakistan. In some areas some help from Chinese industry might be needed towards that end. For the Engineering and analysis Pakistan has the expertise. In house manufacturing and certain specialized subsystem development will need focused work. That's what Pakistan air-force is working on. Everyone buys some subsystems from somewhere. Design or selection they do it themselves based on their fundamental engineering expertise. Pakistan will have to do the same at the end for some subsystems.
Overall however Pakistan has the expertise to design, optimize, validate and develop a true 5th generation stealth aircraft with some help in certain subsystems. Pakistan has been surprisingly a fast learner in many areas. Even in A.I. and nano technology we are moving in fast. Aircraft engineering is just one more of those areas where Pakistan is making rapid progress.
In phase 2 or 3, Pakistan will likely construct simulation-based/surrogate models that can be used to later jointly optimize aerodynamics, and stealth subject to structural constraints (i.e. inverse design studies). or may be depending on computing power available jointly optimize aerodynamics, stealth and structural topology simultaneously (e.g. topology, that is shape and form of internal/external structures) along with combinatorial studies for appropriate materials selection and layering of such materials (say for example to create appropriate distributed dielectric characteristics for a set of components so that internal multi-path scattering leads to maximum absorption of incident radar energy, enhancing stealth significantly). Though with current mathematics its not possible to synthesis an entire aircraft by using some universal optimization approach. WE still have to work on various subsystem individually and in very ad hoc, mostly trial and error manner. Pakistan will have to do the same.
Still in 2 or 3 years we should know detailed shape of the aircraft pretty close to the final prototype. Since internal structural components and subsystems thanks to multi-path scattering and complicated interactions can cause significant rise in RCS in various sectors, the next phase will focus on enhancing stealth optimizing structural design along with material selections (using a combination of meta heuristic methods and along more rigorous classical optimization approaches, since that's best what current applied mathematics offers).
However, to validate rigorously and create trust worthy models that can be used to optimize stealth, Pakistan will need access to advanced Electromagnetic testing chambers (and open air ones too). One can in principle use extremely high resolution computational electrodynamics studies to develop very accurate simulation based models that can be used to say optimize shape of aircraft (for aerodynamics and stealth etc.) and its various components but that path requires advanced super-computing facilities requiring upgrade of our existing ones. At the end we would still need to validate our designs using experimental facilities anyway even when with very best super-computing facilities. Pakistan has such fundamental RCS testing facilities. But we would need need very high resolution one. May be china will give us access. Though Pakistan can quite easily upgrade our own facilities on its own as long as we have funds in the future. its basically about the money. Rest is all off the shelves and easily accessible. Turkey too has such facility. We can use that to save money.
At the end we would be also upgrading our existing super-computing facilities so that we can use computationally intensive high resolution time domain approaches along computationally less intensive frequency domain approaches on full scale aircraft for inverse stealth/aerodynamic optimization (i.e. to reduce RCS in various selected sectors for a given aerodynamic performance).
That would lead to true 5th generation high performance stealth aircraft. Since basically its about joint optimization at the end (ignoring flight control etc.) either based on exact fundamental laws (e.g. Maxwell's equations, navier stokes equations etc) or their approximations for a given configuration(s) (e.g. surrogate models etc.). Whether exact or approximate we would need decent high performance computing in material terms. That's something is well within our reach. Pakistan already has very decent cluster based high performance computing facilities. They are being used right now. some upgrade will help a long way.
It will likely take 2 more years of inverse aerodynamic/electrodynamics studies along with structural studies to come up with final optimized shape and form. Though Pakistan might take 3 depending on computing facilities.
Pakistan already has access to both commercial codes that can even deal with moving boundaries (e.g. time dependent scattering variations of moving components such as engines, flexible wings as they deform etc.) and I know for a fact that even NESCOM has developed its own in house, both time domain and frequency domain electromagnetic scattering analysis software. They can be configured to carry out inverse design studies (e.g. find the shape that restricts RCS in specified sectors to certain ranges while providing the required aerodynamics performance etc. ).
In Other words Pakistan has access to both general commercial and specialized software that it needs. That's what the defense department report was alluding to when it said that Pakistan would use high fidelity codes in phase 2 and later. Now its a matter of time and money. More money will shorten the development time and vice versa.
We don't need nor will acquire J-31 design (as some chinese and even some Pakistanis assume on this forum). The whole aim of project azm is to gain experience on a full scale stealth aircraft design. We already know how to jointly optimize something (i.e. design an aircraft). We need experience on a complex project like azm to apply such know how and further improve our expertise. The aim of project azm is to develop such expertise and become confident that we can do complex things. Pakistan intend to create real expertise via project azm.
Not the design and theoretical studies but its the specialized manufacturing where Pakistan needs to make progress in the next decade so that we can manufacture as much as possible in Pakistan. In some areas some help from Chinese industry might be needed towards that end. For the Engineering and analysis Pakistan has the expertise. In house manufacturing and certain specialized subsystem development will need focused work. That's what Pakistan air-force is working on. Everyone buys some subsystems from somewhere. Design or selection they do it themselves based on their fundamental engineering expertise. Pakistan will have to do the same at the end for some subsystems.
Overall however Pakistan has the expertise to design, optimize, validate and develop a true 5th generation stealth aircraft with some help in certain subsystems. Pakistan has been surprisingly a fast learner in many areas. Even in A.I. and nano technology we are moving in fast. Aircraft engineering is just one more of those areas where Pakistan is making rapid progress.
Last edited:
xyx007
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Al Rasub may be hypersonic missile to balance the power in region
India will have the capability and confidence to conduct a counterforce strike against Pakistan. The plan could be to launch a speedy attack against Pakistan, and by using its ballistic missile defenses, India will shoot down incoming missiles. What if Pakistan launches a preemptive strike to avoid India’s first strike? We are poor country and it require lot of money in hypersonic missle research but we have Allah blessing to achieve our target . We will eat grass but make our weapons precision accurate to stand soils on our defence . No compromise on defence . If someone still not believe on Allah blessing on Pakistan , look corno virus spreading very slowly almost like negligence as compare to other side world .
China also admitted and now spreading Quran copies to Muslims.
In South Asia Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle is at infancy level but South Asia is an equally relevant and important region in this regard. Hypersonic technologies have already begun proliferating in the region. For instance, India tested its indigenous Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV) on June 12. It is also developing the BrahMos-2 hypersonic missile with Russia’s help. It aims to produce a scramjet engine capable of flying faster than Mach 5. These developments will not only destabilize the already precarious state of strategic stability in South Asia, but will also increase the risks of inadvertent escalation.
our Pak Army is Allah big blessing and understand this threat to Pakistan and they are taking serious measurement to counter this threat from our neighbor.
India will have the capability and confidence to conduct a counterforce strike against Pakistan. The plan could be to launch a speedy attack against Pakistan, and by using its ballistic missile defenses, India will shoot down incoming missiles. What if Pakistan launches a preemptive strike to avoid India’s first strike? We are poor country and it require lot of money in hypersonic missle research but we have Allah blessing to achieve our target . We will eat grass but make our weapons precision accurate to stand soils on our defence . No compromise on defence . If someone still not believe on Allah blessing on Pakistan , look corno virus spreading very slowly almost like negligence as compare to other side world .
China also admitted and now spreading Quran copies to Muslims.
In South Asia Hypersonic Weapons and the Changing Calculus of Battle is at infancy level but South Asia is an equally relevant and important region in this regard. Hypersonic technologies have already begun proliferating in the region. For instance, India tested its indigenous Hypersonic Technology Demonstrator Vehicle (HSTDV) on June 12. It is also developing the BrahMos-2 hypersonic missile with Russia’s help. It aims to produce a scramjet engine capable of flying faster than Mach 5. These developments will not only destabilize the already precarious state of strategic stability in South Asia, but will also increase the risks of inadvertent escalation.
our Pak Army is Allah big blessing and understand this threat to Pakistan and they are taking serious measurement to counter this threat from our neighbor.
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Foxtrot Delta
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better keep it quiet and low profile till time comes. Hypersonic glide weapons can attract too much attention if announced publically. Shh.
Kompromat
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1: You don't need a "bomb" to carry a TEMP charge.
2: TEMP charge can be carried on existing vehicles like Raad-2. So no need for an "EMP bomb". A.I can enable Raad-2 to achieve persistent loitering and stalking capability. That's what's required to properly deploy TEMP.
3: Al-Rasaub will most likely be an offensive weapon system. It has to offer a significant leap in capability to justify its name.
4: It could be an HGV device or a nuclear powered, nuclear armed submarine.
2: TEMP charge can be carried on existing vehicles like Raad-2. So no need for an "EMP bomb". A.I can enable Raad-2 to achieve persistent loitering and stalking capability. That's what's required to properly deploy TEMP.
3: Al-Rasaub will most likely be an offensive weapon system. It has to offer a significant leap in capability to justify its name.
4: It could be an HGV device or a nuclear powered, nuclear armed submarine.
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