Al-Khalid tank (Type 90-IIM / MBT-2000) Information Pool

[alimobin memon]

the gun pressure of older gun was 5750

the new one being 50 cal. will have a pressure of 6250

we need a much powerfull gun with atleast 7000bars pressure

nabil bro can put light on this

6250 bar pressure is not enought for pentrating armour? isn't muzzle velocity the main reason of power of force to impact.

 

[farhan_9909]

IDEAS 2002

 

[VelocuR]

Al Khalid tank busy attacking on terrorists.

 

[alimobin memon]

Al Khalid tank busy attacking on terrorists.

That is Type 59 man not alkhalid

 

[Arsalan]

well from an indian member i heard that There T-90 dnt have any LTS as of now..nor the latest ERA.

and he said apart from trishol you wont find any other source to prove the latest ERA claim

Its possible, i saw Indian army documentary Indian T-90s don't even have air condition.

yes no air condition as well

i forgot the APS as well

these things are just in the list bt nt present on t90 bhisma

no offense brothers but lets try and keep this out of this thread.
the thread is well on track and is INFORMATION pool and bring up such points will make the Indian do what they do the best..
lets try and avoid trolling

regards!

 

[Dazzler]

In China, seems to be an MBT 2000/ AK variant with a modified/ enlarged turret, could be for PAk (unlikely as we are making them on our own) or BD?

 

[Dazzler]

6250 bar pressure is not enought for pentrating armour? isn't muzzle velocity the main reason of power of force to impact.

Exactly, AK gun pressure is enough to tear almost every mbt armour in existence out there, during trials, it ripped ERA equipped undisclosed mbt! No further details can be given but gun pressure is more dependant on shell velocity and 6250 is excellent pressure by any standards.

Here is an interesting post from Methos from defence forum india that sheds more light on the subject....


Read what I wrote above in post #2092. BM-42 has large caliber fins and an overall greater diameter -> this will lead to more friction/drag -> higher loss of velocity during flight. BM-42 has a fin diameter of 125 mm, while 120 mm APFSDS have allways less than 100 mm fin diameter.

"Also as written in "Kampfpanzer Entwicklungen der Nachkriegszeit" monobloc penetrators have a higher penetration capability - DM 33 is monobloc, BM-42 uses a two-part tungsten core.

In my opinion the problem with WITU is that they base their "facts" probably at different sources. I.e. Jane's claims that DM 43 has a pressure value of 5500 bar (550 MPa), while U.S. sources attribute the same round with a chamber pressure of 5800 bar... because they probably use another base for their values. Rheinmetall stated in the old DM 63 article that DM 53/63 has a chamber pressure of 5500 bar at 15°c (the same as DM43). It has been claimed on German forums that at very hot climates (60-70°c) DM 53 is coming very close to the peak pressure of the shorter L/44 gun (7100 bar). So unless the Americans can't fire their APFSDS in hot climates (like Egypt, Afghanistan or Iraq) - which has been proven to be wrong - the U.S. use another base pressure values at least on a different situation (maybe also for velocity, but we don't know anything more detailed about it). So the 5800 bar for M829A2 in the image in post #2094 above could be practical 5500 bar at 15°c as for DM43.
One indicator that the U.S. might base their pressure values on another situation is the testing of KEW-A2 rounds in Leopard 2 tanks - there on page 14 is a graph about the performance of KEW-A2 regarding the dependency of speed on temperature: Jane's claimed that KEW-A2 has a muzzle velocity of 1,700 m/s - this is reached at ~22-23°c (~75°F) and not at 15°c! At 15°c the muzzle velocity is only ~1,675 m/s."

 

[Mav3rick]

Guys, I just read about the TROPHY Armour Protection System for TANKS, used by Isreali Tanks. What are we doing for protection of our Al-Khalid Tanks?

 

[XYON]

Good Question!! We are doing absolutely NOTHING!!! Other than ERA, the tanks have no Laser Threat Sensors or any early warning systems that could give a chance for the crew to survive while being lazed in the battlefield. Until a round comes and hit the outer walls, the tank crews are literally sitting ducks in the modern battlefield. Thanks to the really ill-visioned leadership at the helm of affairs in the Armoured Corps Directorate at GHQ.

Guys, I just read about the TROPHY Armour Protection System for TANKS, used by Isreali Tanks. What are we doing for protection of our Al-Khalid Tanks?

 

[farhan_9909]

ERA over the top of turret.the ERA seem different than the older..might be the Local AORAK

 

[Anotherangle]

Guys, I just read about the TROPHY Armour Protection System for TANKS, used by Isreali Tanks. What are we doing for protection of our Al-Khalid Tanks?

Wikipedia says there is an advanced system present although it is not a comprehensive system like T90 tanks defense:
Al-Khalid tank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[DARKY]

In China, seems to be an MBT 2000/ AK variant with a modified/ enlarged turret, could be for PAk (unlikely as we are making them on our own) or BD?

Turret is of the same size... there's an extra armor module instead of ERA... as on ZTZ-99.

 

[alimobin memon]

Alkhalid tank does not only have era , it has laser threat warning system and active protection system too ... Dont underestimate the tank However I have one question that Alkhalid AA gun can be operated from inside but i dont see the gun to be mounted on any rolling system rather than a small poll fixed :/ any one knows something about it ?

Good Question!! We are doing absolutely NOTHING!!! Other than ERA, the tanks have no Laser Threat Sensors or any early warning systems that could give a chance for the crew to survive while being lazed in the battlefield. Until a round comes and hit the outer walls, the tank crews are literally sitting ducks in the modern battlefield. Thanks to the really ill-visioned leadership at the helm of affairs in the Armoured Corps Directorate at GHQ.

Please first research than say so ALKHALID is well protected with other systems too...

 

[MilSpec]

Exactly, AK gun pressure is enough to tear almost every mbt armour in existence out there, during trials, it ripped ERA equipped undisclosed mbt! No further details can be given but gun pressure is more dependant on shell velocity and 6250 is excellent pressure by any standards.

Here is an interesting post from Methos from defence forum india that sheds more light on the subject....


Read what I wrote above in post #2092. BM-42 has large caliber fins and an overall greater diameter -> this will lead to more friction/drag -> higher loss of velocity during flight. BM-42 has a fin diameter of 125 mm, while 120 mm APFSDS have allways less than 100 mm fin diameter.

"Also as written in "Kampfpanzer Entwicklungen der Nachkriegszeit" monobloc penetrators have a higher penetration capability - DM 33 is monobloc, BM-42 uses a two-part tungsten core.

In my opinion the problem with WITU is that they base their "facts" probably at different sources. I.e. Jane's claims that DM 43 has a pressure value of 5500 bar (550 MPa), while U.S. sources attribute the same round with a chamber pressure of 5800 bar... because they probably use another base for their values. Rheinmetall stated in the old DM 63 article that DM 53/63 has a chamber pressure of 5500 bar at 15°c (the same as DM43). It has been claimed on German forums that at very hot climates (60-70°c) DM 53 is coming very close to the peak pressure of the shorter L/44 gun (7100 bar). So unless the Americans can't fire their APFSDS in hot climates (like Egypt, Afghanistan or Iraq) - which has been proven to be wrong - the U.S. use another base pressure values at least on a different situation (maybe also for velocity, but we don't know anything more detailed about it). So the 5800 bar for M829A2 in the image in post #2094 above could be practical 5500 bar at 15°c as for DM43.
One indicator that the U.S. might base their pressure values on another situation is the testing of KEW-A2 rounds in Leopard 2 tanks - there on page 14 is a graph about the performance of KEW-A2 regarding the dependency of speed on temperature: Jane's claimed that KEW-A2 has a muzzle velocity of 1,700 m/s - this is reached at ~22-23°c (~75°F) and not at 15°c! At 15°c the muzzle velocity is only ~1,675 m/s."

very informative..... excellent post

 

[Rafi]

Solid State Autoloader

Modern warfare demands installation of robust control systems in main battle tank to enhance firepower and maneuverability. CARE has developed Solid State Autoloader for Pakistan Army main battle tank MBT Al-Khalid, replacing the Chinese Autoloader. The auto-loading mechanism consists of two subsections, the Motorized Mechanical Subsystem consisting of carousel magazine, hoister mechanism, ejection frame and window assemblies etc. Driven by several high power motors and solenoids along with mechanical proximity switches. The other part is the electric control subsystem, responsible for coordinated control of various operations carried out by the mechanical subsystem.

The solid state Autoloader developed by CARE has eliminated the need for relay and utilizes the latest solid-state electronic devices to provide the control functionalities hence leading to most reliable system.

Completely solid-state design with NO RELAYS
Design based on programmable logic, processor and FPGAs
100% compatible with Tank's existing mechanical design / mounting as well as the wiring harness and connectors
Bi-directional carousal motion leading to substantial reduction in the maximum loading time for the farthest ammo
Simultaneous display of the number of each ammo type (i.e. HE/HA/AP) present in carousel magazine along with the number of empty trays

http://www.carepvtltd.com/cms.php?id=Solid_State_Autoloader

Network Centric System

The NCS consists of a number of hierarchical command posts that receive and process information from different sensors. Timely availability of this information along with orders from the Command Post down to the weapon posts designated to engage a potentially hostile target is of prime importance.

NCS caters for effective and secure command & control of weapons and resources. NCAWS enhances the decision-making ability and agility of Command by providing:

Real time consolidated and fused situation awarness display at all command levels
Guaranteed communication between all nodes through a robust Auto-healing Data Communication Network
GIS based User Interface displaying information from the sensors and weapon inventory
Threat Evaluation and Weapons Assignment (TEWA) for effective firing
SConfigurable and customizable operation and administration order flow
Automatically compiled Reports at every level of command hierarchy


Utilizing all possible information sources integrated into NCAWS helps the Commander to:

Plan and execute operations using the decision-aiding tools
Shorten operations planning time
Automatically record and replay all command, order and status data from any previous engagement for optimum analysis and review
Improve target detection probability, and
Utilize effective sensor data at all tiers for threat neutralization


GIS Based User Interface

In this NCW System, target are displayed at each tier of the command and control hierarchy. The tracks are disseminated and displayed according to the Area of Responsibility of the particular command and reporting unit. A Graphical User Interface (GUI) provides Geographical Information System (GIS) based multi-layer display capabilities, with the provision to enable/disable each layer independently.

Sensor Data Xtracter & Target Tracking System

To extract target information from different types of sensor, CARE has developed Sensor Data Extractor & Trackers for variety of sensors.

Horus

Horus is an integrated vehicle management system comprising of vehicle mounted GPS-based tracking devices, communicating over multiple networking technologies (GSM,GPRS, V-UHF, Satellite) in a hybrid environment and versatile multi-tier command and control infrastructure. It comprehensively addresses the problems of managing, tracking, monitoring and assisting any number of vehicles registered within the system.

Components
Horus allows integration of different kinds of communication infrastructure including GPRS/SMS, HF/VHF/ UHF and Satellite modems for relaying GPS coordinates of a vehicle. This unique capability enables supervisor to monitor vehicle in all terrain and geographical location. The system comprises of wired and wireless gateways for consolidation, display and management of information. The system supports a multi-tier command and control infrastructure and provides authenticated access control at different level of echelons for operational purposes. Horus vehicle management system consists of the following components,
Central Command and Control Center
Static and Mobile Management Center
Tracking Device

Features
The system comes with host of configurable features. Any capability defined below can be disabled using system configuration utility at installation time from the command console.

Situation awareness
Displaying GPS based update s and display of the registered vehicles to respective management center and central command and control center
Real-time status and generation of triggers for matters of concern
Tracking Device
Vehicle Management
Database for Recording and Replaying vehicles routes
Reports and returns with data fusion and consolidation
Preformatted and format free massages
Command and Control Console
Add-Del registration of vehicles in the system
Create multiple Domains and associate different vehicles to appropriate domain
Diversion and situational alerts
Geo-fencing defining, downloading and enforcing
Geographical Information System
Multi layers of Electronic Maps
Map manipulation Features
Zoom in, out, Pan, Rotate e.t.c
Navigation help with distance and speed calculation
Security
Multi Layers of security with state of the art encryption, authentication and key generation protocols

http://www.carepvtltd.com/cms.php?id=Horus

Elint

CARE has developed ELINT Threat Perception and Identification System for All kinds of Emitters offering:
Broadband Coverage
High accuracy and sensitivity
Automatic and manual operating modes
Classifier for Automatic Emitter Recognition
GUI based Electronic Order of Battle