AirForce Monthly - 2 Chinese AESA radar competing for Block 3

[WarFariX]

Sir are you really not getting with @MastanKhan is asking or are just side stepping the question (it took lot ot pressing on his part to get a reply from your but your three replies to his question were all irrelevant and not addressing the point at hand. Eventually when it came, it was from @ziaulislam )
The question was, if it is true that Vixen was offered to us in the past, as it was, then what is this NEW CONCERN about the source codes? It must have been there in the start as well or may be THIS IS THE START!!
The weaponry is ONE reason. Other being more local input and assembly/maintenance/manufacturing rights. Something that we are actively looking to purse now.

.

i think i m not good at expressing my words clearly so to be precise , vixen offered by italy to paf is what is on news...paf never officially said that "vixen is our only hope" coz there were some arguments going on both side for source codes ...the concern isnt new rather from the time when paf actively negotiated for vixen in hope to get source codes...hoping that paf may get the codes would have settled the deal but neither side isnt ready for that...at ideas italy again displayed vixen with irst and background image of thunder indicating thta they r hopeful to secure order without giving up source codes of radar rather getting source code of thunder to program it for the weapons/sensors available....paf as a result gave up on vixen and never itself talked about vixen is final or else

Do not read too much into it as people here are dreaming about retractable IFR probes (not happening), AESA (not happening from the START at least), IRST (not likely) more hard points for weapon systems (not likely). There are SO MANY things people are dreaming about but as for the info coming about Blk III there are loads of things that are just dreams even though the Blk III will have improved performance.

han bhai ab itnay oonche khuwab bhi nai dekhne chahiye logon ko...as a light weight fighter , thunder will eveolve into a beast of its kind

 

[MastanKhan]

kamustas sanure.

" como estas senor "

Bien Bien

 

[Hassan Guy]

Good to know PAF has more options, the ACM said production of AESA radars is a goal of the PAC and it seems the Block 3 will lay the technological foundation for this industry.

 

[WarFariX]

kamustas sanure.

" como estas senor "

Bien Bien

No entiendo este idioma

 

[MastanKhan]

i think i m not good at expressing my words clearly so to be precise , vixen offered by italy to paf is what is on news...paf never officially said that "vixen is our only hope" coz there were some arguments going on both side for source codes ...the concern isnt new rather from the time when paf actively negotiated for vixen in hope to get source codes...hoping that paf may get the codes would have settled the deal but neither side isnt ready for that...at ideas italy again displayed vixen with irst and background image of thunder indicating thta they r hopeful to secure order without giving up source codes of radar rather getting source code of thunder to program it for the weapons/sensors available....paf as a result gave up on vixen and never itself talked about vixen is final or else

Hi,

It is difficult to comprehend that Vixen would hope to get the contract without releasing the source codes for weapons integration.

Or---maybe they were upfront about it and the Paf went along---in case the chinese option did not come upto par---they would take the Vixen option as is---.

Or they were so confident about their product---that they put those conditions---.

So---there is more to it than what meets the eye.

 

[Fledgingwings]

Doesnt matters either way its still AESA

 

[MastanKhan]

Doesnt matters either way its still AESA

Hi,

No---it is not as simple as that---. Vixen has a proven product with a known predictability rate of service---operation and maintenance.

 

[HAIDER]

Seems B will be mid size bomber. Two seater fatigue resistance seating , long range radar , changing payload configuration .... wait and see

 

[WarFariX]

Hi,

It is difficult to comprehend that Vixen would hope to get the contract without releasing the source codes for weapons integration.

Or---maybe they were upfront about it and the Paf went along---in case the chinese option did not come upto par---they would take the Vixen option as is---.

Or they were so confident about their product---that they put those conditions---.

So---there is more to it than what meets the eye.

i have a gut feeling that lets say vixen is dead . The route that paf will choose is the other radar in development poised to use GaN tech will land in block3 and future jf17B .. JF17b has a different and long nose. KLJ-7A might land as a mid life upgrade to block 1 and block 2 thunders in future .

 

[messiach]

No, not in the near future. Complicated engineering. Big stumbling block to block3

AVIC doesn't seem to have a marketable HMD/S yet.

It has been answered elsewhere.

@messiach disagrees.

 

[Dazzler]

i have a gut feeling that lets say vixen is dead . The route that paf will choose is the other radar in development poised to use GaN tech will land in block3 and future jf17B .. JF17b has a different and long nose. KLJ-7A might land as a mid life upgrade to block 1 and block 2 thunders in future .

Vixen was never in the race. Chinese were quite clear that theyll not share source codes of sd-10 and other advanced/ sensitive weapons. Otoh, Leonardo were also not willing to let the chinese have a glimpse of vixen up close.

The klj-j-7a was always and still is the forerunner. the new chinese radar will have to prove its worth and price to stay in the competition. The better than expected performance of klj-7 also played it's part in PAF's inclination towards NRIET radar.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

No, not in the near future. Complicated engineering. Big stumbling block to block3


It has been answered elsewhere.

So ... I take it we still don't have an HMD/S? I guess importing from Thales and BAE Systems is too costly or inaccessible? And trying a middleman to import the Elbit Targo or DASH is a non-starter. That basically leaves getting a competent party to develop one, but that will cost money...

 

[ziaulislam]

Do not read too much into it as people here are dreaming about retractable IFR probes (not happening), AESA (not happening from the START at least), IRST (not likely) more hard points for weapon systems (not likely)..

I think most important factor is cost
these things cost alot and PAF has to decide when and how many AESA equipped systems they can afford.
they need decide on usefulness of Pod vs an inbuilt IRST as well(again cost). than there is the question of airforce size (150 vs 250 thunders)

though i am still not sure why cannot another 1 or 2 hard-points be added under the fuselage especially under air intakes

personally I think PAF needs to forgo any spending on importing a new system and focus on getting AESA and IRST in these system, will be costly, but it has to, as even the LCAs will come with AESA equipped systems

alot will depend how much pak army can contain its "other" spending and realize that no amount of artillery or armored cores are useful without an airforce that can atleast deny air superiority to the opposition

army needs to become thinner, leaner and modernized

i personally never thought that SD 10 will work with Italian radar it had to be either full European package with BVRs or southafrican SRAAM/BVRs or a full Chinese system

SD 10 is most advance weapon Chinese are fielding, i doubt they would even export latest versions to anyone else besides pakistan, let alone allow code sharing

 

[messiach]

A prototype has been in development with starts and stops, we may see a test-type in third block but its development will definitely continue in FGF. No one will sell sensor deployment technology to us.

So ... I take it we still don't have an HMD/S? I guess importing from Thales and BAE Systems is too costly or inaccessible? And trying a middleman to import the Elbit Targo or DASH is a non-starter. That basically leaves getting a competent party to develop one, but that will cost money...

 

[Akasa]

Yea, but they seem to be in development. We don't have an actual product with a name and price-tag yet, hence my belief that this isn't a marketable product at the moment.

Are we sure they're still in development? To promote & exhibit such systems at trade shows seem to suggest that these HMDs are ready to go; this would also go hand-in-hand with the fact that the Chinese have been developing HMD systems for many years.