Air Refuelling / Air Tankers

[Neo]

Initially four tankers will be acquired, delivery expected from 2008.

 

[Interceptor]

Why does Pakistan need them?

 

[Neo]

Why does any airforce need them? To extend (combat) flight endurance.

 

[Interceptor]

However, the Pakistani Planes are able to strike deep into India. Doesnt a Air Tanker make juicy target for an enemy.

 

[Neo]

However, the Pakistani Planes are able to strike deep into India.

No we lack that capacity. F-16, most advanced fighter in PAF inventory, is basically an airdefence and air superiority fighter. AQ-5 is the only dedicated plane for FGA role and it doesn't have the range.
Ballistic missiles are meant for deep peneteration and can reach large parts of India.

Doesnt a Air Tanker make juicy target for an enemy.

Yes they are but usually they're not flown into hostile territory. Same goes for the Awacs.

 

[Muradk]

However, the Pakistani Planes are able to strike deep into India. Doesnt a Air Tanker make juicy target for an enemy.

since an aircraft's maximum takeoff weight is generally less than the maximum weight with which it can stay airborne, this allows an aircraft to take off with only a partial fuel load, and carry additional payload weight instead. Then, after reaching altitude, the aircraft's tanks can be topped up by a tanker, bringing it up to its maximum flight weight.


Vietnam War
It was common for USAF fighter-bombers flying from Thailand to North Vietnam to refuel from KC-135s en-route to their target. Besides extending their range, this enabled the F-105s and F-4 Phantoms to carry more bombs and rockets. Tankers were also available for refueling on the way back if necessary. In addition to ferrying aircraft across the Pacific Ocean, aerial refueling made it possible for battle damaged fighters, with heavily leaking fuel tanks, to hook up to the tankers and let the tanker feed its engine(s) until the point where they could glide to the base and land. This saved numerous aircraft.

The US Navy frequently used carrier-based aerial tankers like the KA-3 Skywarrior to refuel Navy and Marine aircraft such as the F-4, A-4, A-6, and A-7. This was particularly useful when a pilot returning from an airstrike was having difficulty landing and was running low on jet fuel. This gave him fuel for more attempts at landing for a successful "trap" on an aircraft carrier. The KA-3 could also refuel fighters on extended Combat Air Patrol and E-2 Hawkeye Airborne Electronic Warning aircraft on extended patrol. USMC jets based in South Vietnam and Thailand also used USMC KC-130 Hercules transports for air-to-air refueling on missions.

Falklands War/South Atlantic War
Aerial refueling played a vital role in all of the Argentine successful attacks against the Royal Navy. The Argentine Air Force had only 2 KC-130H Hercules available and they were used to refuel both Air Force and Navy A-4 Skyhawks and Navy Super Etendards in their Exocet strikes, with the two models achieving almost all of the British ships sunk. The Hercules on several occasions approached the islands (where the Sea Harriers were in patrol) to search and guide the A-4s in their returning flights. On one of those flights (callsign Jaguar) one of the KC-130s went to rescue a damaged A-4 and delivered 39,000 lb of fuel while carrying it to its airfield at San Julian. On the other hand, the Mirage IIIs and Daggers lack of air refuelling capability prevented them from achieving better results. The Mirages were unable to reach the islands with a strike payload, and the Daggers could do so only for a 5 minute strike flight.

On the British side, air refueling was carried out by the Handley Page Victor K.2 and after the Argentine surrender by modified C-130 Hercules tankers. These aircraft aided deployments from the UK to the Ascension Island staging post in the Atlantic and further deployments south of bomber, transport and maritime patrol aircraft. The most famous refueling missions were the "Operation Black Buck" sorties which involved 14 Victor tankers refueling single Avro Vulcan bombers to attack the Argentine-captured airfield at Port Stanley on the Falkland Islands. They attempted to knock out the Port Stanley runway, blocking the Argentine C-130 Hercules re-inforcement operations. The raids were the longest-range bombing raids in history until surpassed by the B-52 in the 1991 Gulf War and later B-2 flights.

The Victor tankers, retired in 1993, were replaced in RAF service by Lockheed L-1011 and Vickers VC10 transports which were bought second-hand and fitted as tankers. The L-1011s, converted by Marshall Aerospace, and VC10s, converted by British Aerospace, can refuel any aircraft fitted with the NATO standard probe system.


Libya
During Operation El Dorado Canyon, several F-111 Aardvark fighter-bombers stationed in the United Kingdom utilized aerial refuelling to enable them to operate non-stop against targets in Libya. Since the aircraft were allowed to cross neither French nor Spanish airspace, they should make a detour around the Iberian Peninsula and stay above International waters during all transit.

 

[melb4aust]

since an aircraft's maximum takeoff weight is generally less than the maximum weight with which it can stay airborne, this allows an aircraft to take off with only a partial fuel load, and carry additional payload weight instead. Then, after reaching altitude, the aircraft's tanks can be topped up by a tanker, bringing it up to its maximum flight weight.

Well, thats a very good answer and very important point to note......which majority of us did'nt know about it.....thanks

 

[Nomi929]

PAF chief said in recent interview that PAC (Pakistan Aeronautical Complex) has fitted two Mirages with refueling Pods.

Ans Air refueling tankers will arrive by next month.

 

[Super Falcon]

i agree with you that chief of army staff said that soon PAF gonna get ari refuler.

and he sayed that the deal is under way with ukraine

 

[Kharian_Beast]

They are good to have, and the people wondering about them being easy targets, aren't PAF bases protected from aerial bombardment? Are SAM
s/AA, reinforced bunkers not part of the inventory?

 

[Munir]

How many planes will be having the option to be refueled by this plane at the moment? Or do we have IFR attached to JF17 at the moment?

 

[Nomi929]

How many planes will be having the option to be refueled by this plane at the moment? Or do we have IFR attached to JF17 at the moment?

Planes that will be manufactured from now on, will have air-refueling pods.

BTW PAF plans to equip 20-30 Mirages with Air-refueling pods.

 

[Munir]

We will get the first JF17's next year so why do we need the tanker now? Refitting the Mirages akes more then a few months. Or is needed cause we will add IFR and test it inhouse? I think so.

 

[Nomi929]

We will get the first JF17's next year so why do we need the tanker now? Refitting the Mirages akes more then a few months. Or is needed cause we will add IFR and test it inhouse? I think so.

PAF to BUY 4 or 6 refuelers from Ukraine. First of these aircrafts will reach Pakistan in month or so. AND rest of them will take time.

PAF will fit 30 mirages with refueling pod in pilot project.

ACM said that after getting hands on first refueler, there will be intensive testing of in-flight refueling on mirage aircraft. Possibly to pave the way for system to be installed on JF-17.

 

[Imran Khan]

we can refule f-16 also?