Air Force Question Thread

[Myth_buster_1]

The AAM acquisition plan has been addressed by PAF like MICA, SD-10, AIM-120, R-darter and A-darter...But other then Harpoon and Ra'ad CM at least i am not aware of any PAF plan for new AGM like anti-radiation anti-runway and guided missiles..
what are the chance of these AGMs in PAF?..
AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon
AGM-88E Advanced Anti Radiation Guided Missile
AGM Armiger Anti Radiation Missile with Intelligent Guidance & Extended Range
newer version of AGM-64..

 

[BATMAN]

Benazir finalized the deal with France for complete ToT on Agosta 90 submarines, why wasn't there any commissions and kick backs then, its inconsistent, and is a malice lie that always be a means to sling mud at Bhutto's.

Every deal in BB's era was subjected to 10% commission.
My company boss was a foreigner and he use to pay % plus foreign tours to various intermidiaries of Zardari. My boss use to disclose such details informally in office.
He also told us that our company heads came to Pakistan and met the govt. and offered to make Pakistan regional hub for services but the answer they got 'how it will help us (Zardari)'. Our company split there investment to Dubai and India and caio caio to Pakistan!
Why Kotecna inspection was mandatory for all import and exports? In reality no inspection was ever made and every thing was mere paper work? all money went ot Zardari's pocket.
Zardari got rich in couple of years, much faster than bil gates! where as he use to live in jail!

 

[fatman17]

The AAM acquisition plan has been addressed by PAF like MICA, SD-10, AIM-120, R-darter and A-darter...But other then Harpoon and Ra'ad CM at least i am not aware of any PAF plan for new AGM like anti-radiation anti-runway and guided missiles..
what are the chance of these AGMs in PAF?..
AGM-154 Joint Standoff Weapon
AGM-88E Advanced Anti Radiation Guided Missile
AGM Armiger Anti Radiation Missile with Intelligent Guidance & Extended Range
newer version of AGM-64..

there were reports of US releasing the JSOW but i guess they were in-correct. US could re-lease this AGM as they have done for Turkey in the recent past.. others u have mentioned i am not so sure.

 

[EagleEyes]

there were reports of US releasing the JSOW but i guess they were in-correct. US could re-lease this AGM as they have done for Turkey in the recent past.. others u have mentioned i am not so sure.

No.. we have the JSOW. More on order i believe.

Check the old thread: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...an-develops-joint-standoff-weapon-system.html

 

[blain2]

No.. we have the JSOW. More on order i believe.

Check the old thread: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...an-develops-joint-standoff-weapon-system.html

I concur. Pakistan did acquire the JSOW from US stocks right after we were granted MNNA status

i am not aware of any PAF plan for new AGM like anti-radiation anti-runway and guided missiles..

If you go back a while to maybe 2004/5 timeframe and pick up the AFM, it had AVM Shahid Latif's interview. He said that for ARM capability, PAF has the option to change the seeker on the SD-10 to get this capability. I suspect this is the way PAF will go as PAF has not really gone for any outside purchase from the west for this crucial capability.

In terms of anti-runway munitions, AWC's licensed production of Matra/now MBDA BLU-107 Durandal (known as HAFR-2 in Pakistan) is an effective anti-runway capability. It is still a current technology that does not require replacement (even the USAF uses the same French hardware for this purpose with the F-16 as the only platform capable of this payload).

Guided missiles can be in a plethora of categories. I think PAF has most of these covered. We are ok on the WVR but need 5th gen missiles so MBDA MICA and hopefully AIM-9x would fulfill this requirement, BVR has to become fully operational across the air force and SD-10 would ensure that along with AIM-120, standoff capability is afforded by various means such as LGBs, H2/H4, JSOW, Ra'ad and potentially even Babur (although an air platform has to be designated for its use).

 

[fatman17]

No.. we have the JSOW. More on order i believe.

Check the old thread: http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...an-develops-joint-standoff-weapon-system.html

this is good but i am confused - did PAF/PN acquire this capability indigenously or we were supplied the AGM-154 by the US.
webby the link was not clear on this point.
blain2 - can u pls provide me the month of the AFM magazine where this info was published.
thx a lot.

 

[blain2]

this is good but i am confused - did PAF/PN acquire this capability indigenously or we were supplied the AGM-154 by the US.
webby the link was not clear on this point.
blain2 - can u pls provide me the month of the AFM magazine where this info was published.
thx a lot.

The AGM-154 capability was acquired based on the disclosure made during the 95th Corps Commanders conference:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/milita...ps-joint-standoff-weapon-system.html#post6530

I will dig up the AFM.

 

[blain2]

Ok found it:

The following is a quote of then AVM Shahid Latif (now Air Marshal), former CPD JF-17 stated for AFM July 2004:

"I cannot give details of our plans for acquiring anti-radiation missile, but we could acquire a BVR and just change the seeker head".

 

[fatman17]

Ok found it:

The following is a quote of then AVM Shahid Latif (now Air Marshal), former CPD JF-17 stated for AFM July 2004:

"I cannot give details of our plans for acquiring anti-radiation missile, but we could acquire a BVR and just change the seeker head".

ok thx - i remember it now - sold!

 

[shehbazi2001]

Alternatives for Runways

While I think PAF is doing well in protecting its aircraft, the issue of runway apparently remains unsolved (at least as I know).

Call it alternatives for runways or Plan-B,C,D etc for making aircraft take off and land in case the runways are either damaged by bombing or sabotage activity of special forces.

First the Arab Air forces and then Pakistan have seriously suffered because the runways were put out of use by enemy action. Unable to take off or land, the consequences were fatal.

I was just thinking whether we have a Plan-B or Plan-C or alternatives to make aircraft take off and land in case the runways are damaged.

Do we have the systems of make-shift or temporary runways???? A demonstration of such capabilities shall surely act as deterrent.

and is this scenario made part of PAF excercises?? after all we have suffered seriously due to runway destruction.

In my opinion the runway repair teams should be given real exercises where a small concrete runway be destroyed by different munitions like Durandals, 2000 lb iron bombs and special penetration munitions like BLU-109s and then repair teams sent to see that how long it takes to repair them after the attack of a specific weapon.

The weapons to be used in runway attack exercise should be according to the real threat that we face.

An option which came into press was the usage of Motorway but even for this, the aircraft support infrastructure like re-arming and refueling should be there to use the motorway as runway.

I would stress that we explore or invent new runways alternatives. Even mechanical runways can be tried. Army uses bridge vehicles that lay mechanical bridges within minutes for other vehicles to pass. By using almost the same technique, mechanical runways can be tested for feasibility.

Satellite technology shall almost in real time verify it to the enemy whether the runway has again been repaired or not.........and we should not rely on concrete runways alone.

Mechanical runway can even be folded again in case of enemy attack and pushed inside hardened shelters (may be, depends on design). Mechanical runways can even be coated with rubber for increased braking efficiency.

 

[Muradk]

That is why they deployed 3 Sqd on different parts of the motor way to see if it will work or not and it did. 4 C130 were deployed with them and it took PAF one night to move them with full equipment. Impressive this way we keep 3 fighters on ADA at the bases let the attacker go for the base if those 3 can take off well and good if not the same SQD will take care of the attacker by attacking them from the motor way.
If the move changes and the attackers go for the motor way the ADA will get them.
I cant say were but if you are driving on a motor way you will notice that the texture for a mile or so that is because it has 4 inches of concrete under it and the then the road.

 

[shehbazi2001]

Runway Intersections and Junctions

During the Arab-Israeli 1967 war and even later the planning was done to hit the "Intersection point" of two runways. If the pilot delivers his bombs accurately, he puts out of action both the runways.

If runways are builts like runway 27 and runway 18, they are likely to cross each other if not far enough, making a point of intersection. This junction of both runways is bombed during war to disable both runways.

Here we need to see that how many of PAF base runways actually have these intersection points and if bombed then how much it shall reduce the operational capability of the base. This study can even be done on google earth.

For example, as seen from google, the runway 14 and 24 at sargodha are making intersections but
the runway layout of masroor seems to be good enough, with runways 27 and 22 not making intersections.

PAF should study these runway junctions and in my opinion should try to make one runway completely independent of the other, if not so already.

 

[shehbazi2001]

As I discussed runway numbers in the last mail, I wanted to give an explanation for those who might not know.

Runway 27 means that its at 270 degrees from the North. Similarly runway 14 means that its at 140 degrees from North. This is what I understand, someone may correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

 

[Muradk]

As I discussed runway numbers in the last mail, I wanted to give an explanation for those who might not know.

Runway 27 means that its at 270 degrees from the North. Similarly runway 14 means that its at 140 degrees from North. This is what I understand, someone may correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

no you are righ I thing chaklala is L24 AND R29 I THINK.

 

[x_man]

As I discussed runway numbers in the last mail, I wanted to give an explanation for those who might not know.

Runway 27 means that its at 270 degrees from the North. Similarly runway 14 means that its at 140 degrees from North. This is what I understand, someone may correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

Shehbazi you are right, just to add few bits, when we say runway 27 , it means that once lined up or coming to land on the runway 27, your aircraft heading will be 270 …

Although very rare but has happened, runway directions can be confusing, especially if you are going to an airfield for the first time….many times pilots came for the landing from the opposite direction and ended up head-on to the aircraft that were taking-off….

Sir Murad, Chaklala is 12/30..