Air Force Question Thread

[Talon]

Why don't BVR missiles have folding wings like on standoff bombs? Won't the resultant extra lift increase the flight time of the missile?

SOW are used against stationary or slow moving targets so even if the motor goes off or runs out of fuel the bomb will hit its target (if launched with correct procedures) but this is not the case for AA missile,the target aircraft will be cold and moving away from the missile so when the missile runs out of fuel its gliding capability will be useless..at least that's what I understand.

 

[untitled]

gliding capability will be useless.

I was thinking along the lines of having delta-wings to assist in mach 2+ plus speeds

 

[Jungibaaz]

Why don't BVR missiles have folding wings like on standoff bombs? Won't the resultant extra lift increase the flight time of the missile?

They do have wings and fins.

You’re right to ask about where the lift component of their flight characteristics comes from. It doesn’t seem obvious but at those higher supersonic speeds that these AAMs achieve, the body of the missile and those small wings generate a lot of lift compared to the small mass of the AAM.

Also, some missiles you’ll see like ASRAAM and that have no wings, just small fins for control. It’s been optimised for low drag, and at high speed, given even slight AoA, the body of the missile produces enough lift. For most missiles there’s a sweet spot for AoA and associated lift to drag ratio that’ll allow it to achieve maximum range.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

Why don't BVR missiles have folding wings like on standoff bombs? Won't the resultant extra lift increase the flight time of the missile?

no. Only missiles fires from canisters have fuddling fins/strakes. Others are all optimized for their flight envelope include, take off, ferry, launch, all the way to target.

 

[Talon]

I was thinking along the lines of having delta-wings to assist in mach 2+ plus speeds

Well in your previous post you talked about increasing flight time so I replied in that context

 

[PDF]

Controlled Flight Into Terrain

an accident in which an airworthy aircraft, under pilot control, is unintentionally flown into the ground, a mountain, a body of water or an obstacle

... And you can also imagine....

Clear night sky, full of stars with big moon..... That's in the sky, but then you see the same image in the sea, below the horizon as well....

So what you see is, stars all around you, two moons..... No horizon visible to naked eye..... That's where you've got to trust your instruments.

@gambit @Bilal Khan 777
Sirs, can you divulge up further on CFIT and any incidents that comes to your mind that you heard during your careers? Just thought ex fighter pilots' posts will be great to learn and hear from.

 

[faq]

Dear All,

I'm a researcher/producer whose developing a project concerning the 17th August 1988 plane crash that took the life of 30 people, most notably President Zia Ul-Haq and US Ambassador Arnold Raphael.

I've been looking into the crash for nearly 20 years and have spoken to various individuals who have knowledge of the crash as well as gaining access to thousands of pages of documentation that have never been seen before.

The goal is to produce a piece of work (either as a podcast and/or a book) that would examines all the theories surrounding the cause of the crash, carefully assessing the credibility of each one.

As part of this work, I'd like to speak to people who can volunteer what they saw or heard of the crash during this period.

Part of my work has led me to look at the theories that were put forward by a now deceased PAF officer, Zaheer Zaidi, who was part of the original crash investigation team.

Another is to look at former PAF officer, Akram Awan, alleged involvement in the crash. He was convicted of spying but stories have been published claiming he had some knowledge of it. There is not much known about either officer beyond what has been published in the Pakistan press at the time and has been repeated since. Most recently in Ejaz Ul Haq's interview to Turkish media in February 2020.

I understand that this story has attracted a great deal of theories, some of it easily dismissible, and it is my intention to try and produce a piece of work that lays to rest some of the misinformation surrounding it.

Did anyone here know what happened with this and the subsequent investigations looking into the crash? Who would it be worth me reaching out to? Is there documentation you would recommend I look at?

Some background about myself, I work as a writer/producer in the UK and US. Films I helped make include the Emmy and BAFTA award winning documentary, LEAVING NEVERLAND. The BAFTA winning feature, FOUR LIONS and the critically acclaimed satire, THE DAY SHALL COME. I've also worked on documentaries looking at the 2017 Manchester Arena bombing and the Grenfell Tower fire.

If you have any questions about myself or the project, I can be reached at faq@protonmail.com .

Sincerely,

Faisal A. Qureshi
-----------
This post was vetted by the Webmaster of the forum.

 

[V. Makarov]

There are some things, that happen in Pakistan, which suddenly disappear from everyday discussion. One such thing is also the OBL raid in Abbottabad. I hope you are able to compile and analyze new info regarding the 88' crash. I also think that someone should dive into the mystery that is the OBL raid, so that future Pakistani generation can know what went wrong.



sorry for derailing the thread a bit.

 

[faq]

There are some things, that happen in Pakistan, which suddenly disappear from everyday discussion. One such thing is also the OBL raid in Abbottabad. I hope you are able to compile and analyze new info regarding the 88' crash. I also think that someone should dive into the mystery that is the OBL raid, so that future Pakistani generation can know what went wrong.

The information I have uncovered so far does correct some aspects of the crash that have been accepted as facts. For example, it tends to be reported that the US ambassador and general were last minute guests of Zia Ul-Haq. In fact they had been booked in advance. Another is the missing flight recorder whereas the plane had no such device which was not unusual.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Dear All,

I'm a researcher/producer whose developing a project concerning the 17th August 1988 plane crash that took the life of 30 people, most notably President Zia Ul-Haq and US Ambassador Arnold Raphael.

I've been looking into the crash for nearly 20 years and have spoken to various individuals who have knowledge of the crash as well as gaining access to thousands of pages of documentation that have never been seen before.

The goal is to produce a piece of work (either as a podcast and/or a book) that would examines all the theories surrounding the cause of the crash, carefully assessing the credibility of each one.

As part of this work, I'd like to speak to people who can volunteer what they saw or heard of the crash during this period.

Part of my work has led me to look at the theories that were put forward by a now deceased PAF officer, Zaheer Zaidi, who was part of the original crash investigation team.

Another is to look at former PAF officer, Akram Awan, alleged involvement in the crash. He was convicted of spying but stories have been published claiming he had some knowledge of it. There is not much known about either officer beyond what has been published in the Pakistan press at the time and has been repeated since. Most recently in Ejaz Ul Haq's interview to Turkish media in February 2020.

I understand that this story has attracted a great deal of theories, some of it easily dismissible, and it is my intention to try and produce a piece of work that lays to rest some of the misinformation surrounding it.

Did anyone here know what happened with this and the subsequent investigations looking into the crash? Who would it be worth me reaching out to? Is there documentation you would recommend I look at?

Some background about myself, I work as a writer/producer in the UK and US. Films I helped make include the Emmy and BAFTA award winning documentary, LEAVING NEVERLAND. The BAFTA winning feature, FOUR LIONS and the critically acclaimed satire, THE DAY SHALL COME. I've also worked on documentaries looking at the 2017 Manchester Arena bombing and the Grenfell Tower fire.

If you have any questions about myself or the project, I can be reached at faq@protonmail.com .

Sincerely,

Faisal A. Qureshi
-----------
This post was vetted by the Webmaster of the forum.

moved to Air Force questions thread

 

[truthfollower]

You’re right to ask about where the lift component of their flight characteristics comes from. It doesn’t seem obvious but at those higher supersonic speeds that these AAMs achieve, the body of the missile and those small wings generate a lot of lift compared to the small mass of the AAM.

Also, some missiles you’ll see like ASRAAM and that have no wings, just small fins for control. It’s been optimised for low drag, and at high speed, given even slight AoA, the body of the missile produces enough lift. For most missiles there’s a sweet spot for AoA and associated lift to drag ratio that’ll allow it to achieve maximum range.

why russian missiles have these odd looking fins in the middle?

 

[Trailer23]

Q. How do Wings work in the PAF?

So far i've seen Three Colors being used.

Anyone who reaches the rank of Wing Commander, gets the Red Crescent & Star.

Officers upto the rank of Squadron Leader wear the Blue Crescent & Star.

Q. What about the White Crescent & Star?

​

@Hodor @Raider 21 @airomerix

 

[airomerix]

Q. How do Wings work in the PAF?

So far i've seen Three Colors being used.

Anyone who reaches the rank of Wing Commander, gets the Red Crescent & Star.

Officers upto the rank of Squadron Leader wear the Blue Crescent & Star.

Q. What about the White Crescent & Star?

View attachment 680401

View attachment 680404

View attachment 680405

View attachment 680406
​

@Hodor @Raider 21 @airomerix

Ranks have nothing to do with color of the wings. You will see certain 1/2/3 star's with a blue wings too. It is all about the flying hours.

White: 0-1500 hrs
Blue : 1500-2500 hrs
Red: +2500 hrs

 

[Trailer23]

White: 0-1500 hrs
Blue : 1500-2500 hrs
Red: +2500 hrs

[Kya baat hai aap ki, Sir jee]

Thank you.

If it weren't for individuals like yourself, the ignorant would assume...kay [shayed rung pasand par hota ho ga] .

 

[Raider 21]

Ranks have nothing to do with color of the wings. You will see certain 1/2/3 star's with a blue wings too. It is all about the flying hours.

White: 0-1500 hrs
Blue : 1500-2500 hrs
Red: +2500 hrs

View attachment 680422

Seen 3 at home. The red one I clearly remember. And yes the mentioned categories are correct.