Ahmadinejad says Iran building three-stage rocket

[Tshering22]

Theres no plans other then the War Game Plans that have pretty well done for ever possible situation that might ever take place. This is just a for fun what if.

Iran already has a missile armament capable of wreaking havoc, but its air, sea, and ground forces are out of date and badly in need of maintenance, according to a survey of websites devoted to military topics.

Jane’s Defense Weekly offers this overall assessment of Iran’s military:

"Iran’s armed forces are limited, despite their size, by a very poor maintenance record caused by lack of spare parts and very poor training, There is little doubt that, at the moment, Iran is not capable of presenting any credible external threat and conventional force projection is almost certainly limited to within its own borders."

GlobalFirepower, a military statistics website, which cites the CIA as one of its sources, ranks Iran 18th in military power worldwide behind Turkey (10), Israel (11), Pakistan (15), and Egypt (17) but ahead of Saudi Arabia (24), Iraq (37), Afghanistan (40),and Lebanon (42).

According to this site, Iran’s defense budget was $6,300,000,000 and it currently has 540,000 active military personnel.

I doubt if Irans missiles are any more dangerous then Saddams WMD.

I dont think people understand the power an force multiplier of smart bombs. Once Irans Air Power weapons like this would come into play.
CBU-105, is seeing its first action ever in combat, and according to the U.S. Air Force, it is especially deadly.

"It's a fearsome weapon," said John Pike, the head of globalsecurity.org and an ABC NEWS consultant. "If an armored convoy is moving down a road, an attack by this cluster bomb unit would basically stop that armored assault in its tracks."

Dividing and Dividing Again

As the bomb falls, it splits open in midair — and releases 10 smaller units, each of which descends under a small white parachute.

As they approach the ground, those units split as well, each one ejecting four armor-piercing explosives. The result, say sources: one bomb drop causes 40 explosions, spread out over 15 acres or more.

The CBU-105 is a heat-seeking weapon. Its sensors look for engines of tanks, personnel carriers and other sources of high temperature. As the bombs descend, they can be steered by small fins, to get closer to their targets, and to counteract the force of the wind. The bombs are less sophisticated than weapons guided by satellites or lasers, but analysts say they can do a lot more damage.

"With a cluster bomb like this," says Pike, "a single B-52 can destroy an entire armored division, whereas in the past you had to send out dozens of airplanes that might have to drop hundreds of bombs to achieve the same effect."

Targeting Tanks with Smart Cluster Bombs - ABC News

Their missiles are strong and no matter how many missiles people of West Asia make, they still cannot strike you. So naturally they'd want to take a look at your soft spots in the region especially when its Iran. They know your soft corner for Israel and they'd strike that (not like Israel will sit quiet or anything) but unfortunately for you bringing an anti-Revolution is a bit difficult right now.

Think about it buddy-- you've already wasted your resources in Iraq for no reason; your hands are still tried and are further going to be tied as NATO's other countries don't have any interest in the Afghanistan. You've slapped every sanction you could on the mulla regime you could and except for air and water, I don't think there's anything left for future sanctions.

Your possible unilateral assault in Iran would send fuel prices through the roof and that'd be disaster unless of course you make Iran an American territory (something not going to happen). All though I am not fond of the theocratic fundamentalists ruling the country, I must say that you can attack Iran-yes you can.. but only and only if you take a break from wars, get rid of your 100% economy debts, set your economy right, lighten up and then come back for round two.

Anyway Iran is not a problem now. Deal with what's the real problem right now--the Taliban in Afghanistan and its borders with Pakistan. They are a real threat to all the countries here.

 

[Jigs]

Theres no plans other then the War Game Plans that have pretty well done for ever possible situation that might ever take place. This is just a for fun what if.

Iran already has a missile armament capable of wreaking havoc, but its air, sea, and ground forces are out of date and badly in need of maintenance, according to a survey of websites devoted to military topics.

Jane’s Defense Weekly offers this overall assessment of Iran’s military:

"Iran’s armed forces are limited, despite their size, by a very poor maintenance record caused by lack of spare parts and very poor training, There is little doubt that, at the moment, Iran is not capable of presenting any credible external threat and conventional force projection is almost certainly limited to within its own borders."

GlobalFirepower, a military statistics website, which cites the CIA as one of its sources, ranks Iran 18th in military power worldwide behind Turkey (10), Israel (11), Pakistan (15), and Egypt (17) but ahead of Saudi Arabia (24), Iraq (37), Afghanistan (40),and Lebanon (42).

According to this site, Iran’s defense budget was $6,300,000,000 and it currently has 540,000 active military personnel.

I doubt if Irans missiles are any more dangerous then Saddams WMD.

I dont think people understand the power an force multiplier of smart bombs. Once Irans Air Power weapons like this would come into play.
CBU-105, is seeing its first action ever in combat, and according to the U.S. Air Force, it is especially deadly.

"It's a fearsome weapon," said John Pike, the head of globalsecurity.org and an ABC NEWS consultant. "If an armored convoy is moving down a road, an attack by this cluster bomb unit would basically stop that armored assault in its tracks."

Dividing and Dividing Again

As the bomb falls, it splits open in midair — and releases 10 smaller units, each of which descends under a small white parachute.

As they approach the ground, those units split as well, each one ejecting four armor-piercing explosives. The result, say sources: one bomb drop causes 40 explosions, spread out over 15 acres or more.

The CBU-105 is a heat-seeking weapon. Its sensors look for engines of tanks, personnel carriers and other sources of high temperature. As the bombs descend, they can be steered by small fins, to get closer to their targets, and to counteract the force of the wind. The bombs are less sophisticated than weapons guided by satellites or lasers, but analysts say they can do a lot more damage.

"With a cluster bomb like this," says Pike, "a single B-52 can destroy an entire armored division, whereas in the past you had to send out dozens of airplanes that might have to drop hundreds of bombs to achieve the same effect."

Targeting Tanks with Smart Cluster Bombs - ABC News

Well certainly Iran lacks in many areas. Yet the issue here is could the U.S. stand another insurgency. That is what will happen if a invasion of Iran occurs. I don't see the U.S. taking that risk. It would be best if they run a air campaign and maybe a naval assault to destroy Iran's nuclear capability and deal a heavy blow to their armed forces. As far as Iran's long range missiles that could reach Israel they would need substantial numbers to do any significant damage with a conventional payload since the accuracy would be quite bad. Overall though a non nuclear Iran isn't much of a threat to the rest of the world.

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

Well certainly Iran lacks in many areas. Yet the issue here is could the U.S. stand another insurgency. That is what will happen if a invasion of Iran occurs. I don't see the U.S. taking that risk. It would be best if they run a air campaign and maybe a naval assault to destroy Iran's nuclear capability and deal a heavy blow to their armed forces. As far as Iran's long range missiles that could reach Israel they would need substantial numbers to do any significant damage with a conventional payload since the accuracy would be quite bad. Overall though a non nuclear Iran isn't much of a threat to the rest of the world.

Remember this is just a pretend, There is a drawdown in Iraq, will only be about 50,000 troops there pretty soon, in a year a draw down in Afghanstan, since middle east is a hot spot I expect we leave some weapons there, we already have in Israel.

I would think in the event of a conflict with Iran we would offer separation of Khuzestan from Iran to the Kurds, perhaps as part of Iraq or their own seperate country, perhaps the same to the Arabs of Khuzestan, fragmenting Iran along regional, ethnic, and linguistic lines. Something the British considered. Some one blew up Mosque in Iran just recently, so every body is not happy there. Of course there would be a massive propganda campaign to convince the present disidents that we are just going to get rid of the present goverment and leave. I expect Iran would shoot missiles at Israel and try to stop the oil in the gulf but that did not work for Saddam. I doubt if oil prices would go up that bad or if they did it would not be much of a problem, because most people will figure it will be a short war. Irans air force would not last 24 hours. If the Iranian tanks massed, the smart cluster bombs will make short work of them. I doubt if the young people of Iran want to die for their Ayatollah's any more the people of Iraq wanted to die for Saddam.

Dont think its going to happen, but dont think the present Iranian goverment would last long if it did.

 

[gambit]

Well certainly Iran lacks in many areas. Yet the issue here is could the U.S. stand another insurgency. That is what will happen if a invasion of Iran occurs. I don't see the U.S. taking that risk. It would be best if they run a air campaign and maybe a naval assault to destroy Iran's nuclear capability and deal a heavy blow to their armed forces. As far as Iran's long range missiles that could reach Israel they would need substantial numbers to do any significant damage with a conventional payload since the accuracy would be quite bad. Overall though a non nuclear Iran isn't much of a threat to the rest of the world.

This consistency about an 'invasion' of Iran reveals many misunderstanding about US political and military plans for Iran. Everyone knows that we do not need to 'invade' in order to retard Iranian nuclear weapons program. We do not need to destroy the entire program structure. The fact that the program is spread out is just as much a liability as it is a strength. The distributive structure make the program resilient but also time consuming and financially expensive whenever multiple points are damaged or destroyed. Keep bringing up an 'invasion' as if it is a requisite tells more about the commentator's desire to exaggerate Iranian military capabilities than it is about understanding the issue.

 

[KSRaj]

I doubt if Irans missiles are any more dangerous then Saddams WMD.

Which one of Saddams WMD?

 

[gambit]

Which one of Saddams WMD?

This one...

Amazon.com: The Bomb in My Garden: The Secrets of Saddam's Nuclear Mastermind (0723812697502): Mahdi Obeidi, Kurt Pitzer: Books

How Close Did Iraq Come?

In The Bomb in My Garden: The Secrets of Saddam's Nuclear Mastermind (Wiley, $24.95), a former Iraqi nuclear scientist, Mahdi Obeidi, describes in jaw-dropping detail how Iraq acquired the means to produce highly enriched uranium, the key ingredient to building a nuclear weapon, by the eve of the first Gulf War. Had Saddam Hussein not made the fatal mistake of invading Kuwait in August 1990, he probably would have possessed a crude atomic bomb by 1992 or 1993, insulating his regime from the threat of foreign invasion.

Relatively unknown in the West until recently, Obeidi was the Iraqi scientist responsible for developing a gas centrifuge, the most direct and efficient route to enriching uranium. After U.N. arms inspectors forced Iraq to close its nuclear weapons program following the 1991 Gulf War, he buried a prototype of his centrifuge in his backyard in Baghdad (hence his book's title). After the fall of Baghdad in April 2003, Obeidi turned over this last remnant of the Iraqi nuclear program to the United States and teamed up with American reporter Kurt Pitzer to write this book.

The result offers insights into how a determined dictator, backed by sufficient resources, can come within reach of acquiring the world's most horrific weapons. It is a tale of cruelty and ruthlessness on the part of Hussein but also of naiveté and greed on the part of Western scientists who enabled Iraq to take shortcuts toward becoming a nuclear power. Obeidi's early centrifuge experiments ended in failure in January 1988. But with the help of American, French and above all German scientists, he was able to create a reliable prototype by the spring of 1990, paving the way to mass production of enriched uranium. One German scientist, Bruno Stemmler, sold Iraq samples of many of the components of a centrifuge for just over a million dollars. A mysterious English-Pakistani businessman identified only as Malik agreed to provide 100 tons of high-grade hardened steel for $7 million. By Obeidi's calculations, this was enough steel to produce sufficient enriched uranium for 10 Hiroshima-type bombs a year. If a relatively well-off German scientist was willing to sell the key components of a centrifuge for $1 million, imagine how little it costs to bribe a desperately poor Russian or Ukrainian.

Obeidi approved the invasion and overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

 

[ARSENAL6]

This one...

Amazon.com: The Bomb in My Garden: The Secrets of Saddam's Nuclear Mastermind (0723812697502): Mahdi Obeidi, Kurt Pitzer: Books

Obeidi approved the invasion and overthrow of Saddam Hussein.

Nice try

The Next Hurrah: The Incredible Story of Mahdi Obeidi, Conclusion

Depiction of Threat Outgrew Supporting Evidence



and I love this part:

The Bomb In My Garden is not documented with sources,.....

. As to the future, Obeidi warns the reader that “nuclear programs share a common weak spot: they need international complicity” to succeed, .

REALLY WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO ISRAEL AND PAKISTAN


and you, gambit wanted your post to be credible LOL.

FAIL !

 

[gambit]

Nice try

The Next Hurrah: The Incredible Story of Mahdi Obeidi, Conclusion

Depiction of Threat Outgrew Supporting Evidence



and I love this part:





REALLY WHAT EVER HAPPEN TO ISRAEL AND PAKISTAN


and you, gambit wanted your post to be credible LOL.

FAIL !

Read that before and I doubt that you actually do the same because if you did, you would have found this bit in the conclusion...

The Next Hurrah: The Incredible Story of Mahdi Obeidi, Part Six

When Obeidi turned over the centrifuge, it was the closest anyone ever came to finding real evidence of ongoing WMD intent. Clearly controlling his interrogation would enable an agency to pitch their own efforts to find WMDs in the best light. Thus, the reason for the competition between the agencies for control over Obeidi.

Conclusion

In any case, it's clear that, when Obeidi decided to come forward with his centrifuge, he walked into a swirling power struggle. Both DIA and CIA wanted credit for and the ability to spin the Obeidi story themselves. And the CIA had already proved its willingness to go to great lengths to maintain its explanation of the aluminum tubes in spite of pre-existing evidence and Obeidi's testimony. The stakes surrounding Obeidi's were high. Which might explain some of the inconsistencies with it.

Essentially...Whoever this 'emptywheel' character is, he is not disputing the fact that Obeidi had at the very least 'something' significant to Iraq's WMD program. He combed through Obeidi's life regarding this issue and found some inconsistencies that does nothing to negate the fact that this 'something' is vital to any uranium enrichment program. All that effort wasted. Scott Ritter does not dispute the facts that he was a hawk in Iraq when he was with the inspection team and that Obeidi met and exposed him for the bully that he was.

The crux of the issue here is the definition of 'WMD' independent of its politicization. Critics of the Iraq invasion consistently failed to explain why does the UN/IAEA have a hostile present there in the first place. If 'WMD' is to mean a functional nuclear device, then the absence of a test detonation absolves Iraq of any charge and the IAEA have no good cause to be in Iraq, let alone the US invasion, and that would mean Saddam would still be alive and in power in Iraq, waiting for an opportunistic moment for a test detonation. India and Pakistan had clandestine nuclear weapon programs that ended with test detonations. Where was Iraq's?

But the UN/IAEA did have a hostile presence in Iraq in the absence of any test detonation. That mean the initials 'WMD' cannot be, and never did have, as simplistic an interpretation as a functional nuclear device as you and others would like to believe. A nuclear explosive device can be as large as a room with all the components laid out, connected and ready to go 'KABOOM'. That is what the Manhattan Project back in WW II was all about. The 'weaponization' process is when the material 'fat' are trimmed from the device and packaged into a deliverable container and that process gave US 'Fat Man' and 'Little Boy'.

As far as the UN/IAEA is concerned, the initials 'WMD' encompasses everything from the uranium enrichment process up to the time when the program can lay out and connect the components that would end up 'KABOOM', not the weaponization process because by that time, it would be too late, too redundant and the world might as well threw up its hands and accept the uncomfortable fact that there is now another nuclear weapons power.

 

[gambit]

Nice try

The Next Hurrah: The Incredible Story of Mahdi Obeidi, Conclusion

I like this part in this supposedly 'investigation' into Obeidi's book...

The Next Hurrah: The Incredible Story of Mahdi Obeidi, Part Three

What I find implausible is the rest of the scenario. Obeidi dug the four foot hole, packed the barrel, then lowered his full 50-gallon barrel into the hole himself.

He did this without wrenching his back out.

Right...So according to this emptywheel character, the proper sequence is:

- Dig hole.
- Fill barrel.
- Bury heavy barrel.

Then wrench out one's back in the process.

Ever heard of watering plant by burying a terra cotta pot?

Environmental Restoration: Buried Clay Pot Irrigation

Buried clay pot irrigation uses a buried, unglazed clay pot filled with water to provide controlled irrigation to plants grown near it. A standard red clay pot with the hole plugged works fine. The seedling or seed should be placed in the area wetted by the pot. The water seeps out through the clay wall at a rate that is influenced by the plant's water use.

So if we go by this emptywheel character though process, we are supposed to:

- Dig hole.
- Fill pot with water.
- Bury heavy pot.

We are not supposed to:

- Dig hole.
- Bury empty pot.
- Fill empty pot with water.

Obeidi, who was a scientist, cannot bury documents and nuclear enrichment parts this way:

- Dig hole.
- Drop empty barrel into hole.
- Fill barrel.

And do not wrench out his back in the process.

There are no shortage of illogical thinking and baseless assumptions, beside this one, with this 'investigation' into Obeidi's story. Any wonder why this sort of crap is ignored?

 

[Jigs]

This consistency about an 'invasion' of Iran reveals many misunderstanding about US political and military plans for Iran. Everyone knows that we do not need to 'invade' in order to retard Iranian nuclear weapons program. We do not need to destroy the entire program structure. The fact that the program is spread out is just as much a liability as it is a strength. The distributive structure make the program resilient but also time consuming and financially expensive whenever multiple points are damaged or destroyed. Keep bringing up an 'invasion' as if it is a requisite tells more about the commentator's desire to exaggerate Iranian military capabilities than it is about understanding the issue.

Which is exactly what i said on page two. U.S. probably won't invade for a number of reasons. I am not saying the U.S. can't invade Iran of course they could if they wanted and defeat the army. The issue is Iraq all over again. Defeat the government reform in a democratic way. The one other issue is that there are a substantial number of people that support this regime and this all would poss problems. I am not saying Iran's military is enough to force the U.S. to a specific strategy . Only imo an air campaign would be the best to solve the problem. Sanctions+nuclear+blow to military infastructure capability would take Iran a very very long time to recover.

 

[nightcrawler]

@Arsenal
I have read the book refer to
http://www.defence.pk/forums/947064-post65.html

Some of the important text that I leeched out from the book
http://dc125.*******.com/img/106604698/22e1baea/Abstracts_Bomb_Courtyard.pdf

 

[CAPTAIN AMERICA]

I am not sure anyone in the Bush administration ever said or thought Saddam had nuclear weapons, of course there was never any question that Saddam had WMD he used WMD on the Kurds and Iranians and a few others.
The only question is what he had at the time of the Iraq War. There were a number of reasons for the IRAQ war, WMD was one part of a number of reasons for the war.

 

[Pasban]

@ Aspahbod, shoma farsi harf mizanid?

I don't see how you could equate an Iranian space program to radicalization. Apart from the other general benefits of a space program, the Iranian program will in turn create thousands of jobs for related-industries and disciplines such as metallurgy and various machining, nanotechnologies, for a multitude of engineering disciplines, optics, electronics, plastics, chemistry, physics, and for the military as well to point out a few. The new expertise that would be obtained would in turn create further jobs with new products for later years. The return on such investment could be very beneficial in the long run. Short-term benefits would be little though. I'm all up for a very dedicated Iranian space program. Obviously, a manned program as such, benefits aside, is very costly and equally a strategic choice as much as one of return on investment. The day a fazanavard reaches space due to Iran's own efforts, would be a great day for our people. During the initiation of the Cold War space race, the US too at the time was besieged by poverty in parts, unemployment in others, and so on and so forth. Yet, the program was continued. The United States has benefited much more from it's space endevours than what even most ordinary Americans realize. I'm not equating the two nations, as that would be ludicrous, but rather scientific ambition. What is dislike though are such outbursts by our government. I'd rather they accomplish first and report later.

 

[Aspahbod]

Bale pasban jan farsi harf mizanam.

The problem with the Space Programs is that they are very similar in the field of technology with ICBMs. That will grow the tensions a lot. Because using a conventional warhead on an ICBM isn't beneficial. They need Nuclear warheads to be so.

 

[Fighter488]

@ Aspahbod, shoma farsi harf mizanid?

I don't see how you could equate an Iranian space program to radicalization. Apart from the other general benefits of a space program, the Iranian program will in turn create thousands of jobs for related-industries and disciplines such as metallurgy and various machining, nanotechnologies, for a multitude of engineering disciplines, optics, electronics, plastics, chemistry, physics, and for the military as well to point out a few. The new expertise that would be obtained would in turn create further jobs with new products for later years. The return on such investment could be very beneficial in the long run. Short-term benefits would be little though. I'm all up for a very dedicated Iranian space program. Obviously, a manned program as such, benefits aside, is very costly and equally a strategic choice as much as one of return on investment. The day a fazanavard reaches space due to Iran's own efforts, would be a great day for our people. During the initiation of the Cold War space race, the US too at the time was besieged by poverty in parts, unemployment in others, and so on and so forth. Yet, the program was continued. The United States has benefited much more from it's space endevours than what even most ordinary Americans realize. I'm not equating the two nations, as that would be ludicrous, but rather scientific ambition. What is dislike though are such outbursts by our government. I'd rather they accomplish first and report later.

I think this is right on the spot answer. Thus is what this program is meant for and must be pursued in that interest exclusively. Chest beating on the success of these program is NOT exclusive to Iran. Any country who accomplishes some thing of value in space program always have show-it-to-the-world attitude.