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Ahl al-Hadith the emerging chaos among Bangladeshi muslim

...The four imams spent almost their entire life to make four Madhabs from Quran and Hadith. If every Muslim with there little knowledge start to buy hadith book and starts to follow their own interpretation think of the chaos it will create...
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Imams are the very reason we have sects & u want us to follow those who generated sects in the first place...!!! Reading Ahaddes urself will NOT create chaos, rather open up ur eyes, & u'd realizethat so-called scholars kept u in darkness about so many issues...

Quran:9:31:
They take their religious scholars and their anchorites to be their lords in derogation of Allah,...
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If we follow Quran & Hadees & NOT any particular Imaam there won't be any sects.

Many so-called scholars distort & cherry-pick things from Hadees & make their own sect, like Quran pointed out too.


Quran:30:31:
Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!
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جنہوں نے اپنے دین کو ٹکڑے ٹکڑے کر دیا اور کئی فرقے ہو گئے سب فرقے اسی سے خوش ہیں جو ان کے پا س ہے

So don't just make a separate sect based on FEW ahadees that ur so-called scholar knew... Read them & u'll find the flexibility that ur so-called scholar hid from u.


Prophet offered prayer differently at different times... All methods given in Ahadees are correct.

Prophet put his hand at different levels, below naval at naval above naval etc,,, all methods are correct.
Sometimes he would flick finger at "Ashadualaailaaha Illallah" & some times he keeps it raised , so both are correct.
Even wordings were different somewhat at different times. So all methods given in Ahadees are correct.




Quran:6:159:
As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah: He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
Quran:42:14:
And they became divided only after knowledge reached them― through selfish envy as between themselves. Had it not been for a Word that went forth before from thy Lord, (tending) to a Term appointed, the matter would have been settled between them:





... The new generation is becoming orthodox day by day! Though phobes here call this wahabism!!
Wahabis call them Wahabis & are just as wrong as Brailvis... Both gotfew parts of their approach correct & made aseparate sect based on those few things that they got right... Other sects got few otherthings right & decided to make another sect,,, so on... None of them is 100% correct as longas they identify themselves with a particular sect instead of identifying with just the Quran & Ahadees ...


Quran:30:31:
Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!
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جنہوں نے اپنے دین کو ٹکڑے ٹکڑے کر دیا اور کئی فرقے ہو گئے سب فرقے اسی سے خوش ہیں جو ان کے پا س ہے
 
Can somebody with koranic knowledge answer that as I am not well versed in classic arabic. Have to head to universitiè soon so I am thanking in advance.

Edit: Also I am not very religious to be honest, however I believe in God and the five pillars+koran. I haven`t read hadiths so I cannot comment on that but seriously I don`t participate in hitting myself for sahaba anniversary because I think its stupid that muslims do it.

Well Quran does not tell you method and steps to pray it is mentioned in hadith but the correct way to start would be here the most authentic book of salah for Muslims [this method is for msulims not those who follow a thousand sects].
http://www.islamicbook.ws/english/english-020.pdf
 
How we should be!
 
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Islam has failed to define many aspects clearly and gives an easy benefit of doubt. Prayer is one of those grey areas which are not defined clearly and that causes anyone to pick a few differences and then make a group of their own!
 
If we had every Tom,Dick and Harry pick up a hadith book and lay down their own interpenetration.We'd have thousands of sects with teenagers as scholars, each following it's own whims and desires.You heard the proverb:"Too many chiefs and not enough Indians"? Well it would be like that,but worse!

Everything has a procedure, and religion is no exception. The Imams being talked about based their entire lives around the study of Islam. Only then did they advocate ruling or pass on their knowledge.

Nowadays, too many Google shaikhs think just because they can gasp basic English and run through some articles;all of sudden they're knowledgeable to pass judgment on great personalities and derive Islamic ruling.

What a mock!
 
Clearly the most important issue plaguing Bangladesh and Muslims :disagree:
Lol,that's what I thought when I saw the title of the thread!I thought,really,BD was fine when i left.........and they are already in chaos about Ahl al Hadith!
 
Lol,that's what I thought when I saw the title of the thread!I thought,really,BD was fine when i left.........and they are already in chaos about Ahl al Hadith!

I meant in future, not already in chaos
 
Thankyou for explaining term madahab.

As for the rest of the post I am still correct regardless of who came first bukhari or all other imams. Under no circumstance can you call yourself or attach yourself to hanafi-salafi-malaki-hanbali-jaffri, the only term is "Muslim". When you say I am from fiqa hanafi or whatever it makes you declare another sect that is what Prophet of Islam asked to keep away from and prevent.

Here you messed it up when you said According to "sunni Islam" that is plain declaring sect, according to x according to y what are you people at. There should only be According to Prophet Muhammad as per guidance and ordained by Allah that is the bottom line so please stop twisting Islam as you said Islam is not complex so lets keep it simple.

I still strongly advise to read up the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H which is reference there is no mention of even sunni but "Be Muslim", neither did the 4 imams ever forced or declared to who ever follows me shall call themselves from hanafi, shafi, hanbali or so on madhab.

I said according to Sunni Islam as this is what the people who call themselves Sunnis practise, as opposed to those who call themselves Shia.

Of course we should just call ourselves Muslims, however the reality is there are different interpretations and followers of different interpretations (fatawa, ijtihidaat and madhahib).

Zakir Naik has done lots of good work but he is not an 'aalim or a faqih or mufti.
 
Anyway as the OP started thsi thread to talk about the impact this will have on our (Bangladeshis) country I'm going to ignore some of the comments here and address the OP and the topic, and just make the rest of my comments here Bangladeshi-centric.
@Moander

1. Ahlul Hadith and Salafis (similar but not the same) are not that big in our country. There are also enough qualified Hanafi ulama to counter their claims.

For example there is a Hanafi fiqh book called "Miraqul Falah" by an Egyptian scholar where he details the Hanafi fiqh in Salah with lots of adillah (evidence) and so on.

2. However the appeal of this group lays in the belief that they are teaching the pure Islam - free of innovations. Of course any sincere believer wants to follow the true Islam and not a distortion.

3. Many expat Bangladeshis in the GCC and particularly Saudi are influenced by the prevalent Salafi form of Islam there and adopt "Salafiya".

4. Saudi Arabia is a very respected and valued ally of Bangladesh so I do not want to be seen as Saudi-bashing, but the Saudi authorities believe that Salafiya is the correct and authentic Islam so they feel it is good to help promote the true form of Islam which is what they believe they are doing. They however have petro-dollars so can spread Salafiya.

The rise of Salafiya is partially linked to gulf petro-dollars, however the GCC economies are slowly but steadily declining (Bahrain is already post-oil peak and its economy is mainly finance and investment based, Qatar, UAE and Saudi are already diversifying....Omanis are seen as slightly inferior by the rest of the GCC Arabs as they have less money).

Salafiya and ostensibly ultra-orthodox interpretations of Islam are facing decline in the modern age. In Saudi, the homeland of Salafiya and the country many Salafis idealize, Salafi influence on political and social affairs are weakening. Saudi women are becoming more outspoken, challenging the conservative clergy etc. What this means is that though individual Salafis through out the world may practise Salafiya and in their minds ideally yearn for a Salafi state, in the real world Salafiyaa in politics and society is no longer a viable proposition as it has already failed and been rejected in its mother country.

The US agenda for Bangladesh includes the mass "emancipation" of women which is partially being done by putting hundreds of thousands, if not millions of them including in our garments industry. The females then becoming more educated, accustomed to working have greater aspirations and will not be happy living in a Taliban (Deobandi) or Saudi (Salafi) state, even Jamat would not be able to apply their more diluted form of an "Islamic republic".

Basically in religious circles Salafis may be obnoxious and a nuisance but they will never be able to pose the threat they have done in other Muslim countries including:

- Algeria: where Salafi-ji**dis engaged in violent rebellion against the state (maybe 100,000 if not more Algerians died)

Algerian Civil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Pakistan, where Lashkar i Tayyiba a Ahlul-Hadith group have been active and where other Salafi groups have killed Pakistani soldiers and civilians, the TTP insurgency against Pakistan has lead to 40,000 + deaths. The TTP has a Salafi component in its coalition.

- Iraq: al-Qaeda in Iraq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Saudi Arabia: Terrorism in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

- Egypt: Terrorism in Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As well as Indonesia, Yemen etc where they have been active.

Their involvement in Afghanistan is well known.

Bangladesh has a different social structure to the above societies and Bangladeshis have a different mentality to Islam. Our security services monitor militants, (even Jamat are apparently controlled by the DGFI but allowed to appear as if they run themselves) and will never allow extremists to flourish in Muslim Bangladesh with its millions of Hindus, Buddhists and Christians.
 
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So what about Imam Shaafi, Imam Hanbal? They also differ from each other!! How do you define that? imam hanifa is not wrong, his rules doesn't go against any fundamental principle of prayer, so our prayer is valid! I don't know who is following Prophet muhammad pbuh exactly! So i am stopping here. I am a proud Hanafi btw
No Sir when you have authentic Hadees you have to follow hadees question is not about so called Fundamental but Imam Abu Hanifa is not the final authority the final authority is Quran and Hadees and what Sahabs did as a whole and when you have authentic Hadees you have to follow Hadees that is why Imam Abu Hanifa and all the Imams said if you get authentic Hadees and their opinion is not according to that Hadees than follow Hadees not the Imam opinion

Islam has failed to define many aspects clearly and gives an easy benefit of doubt. Prayer is one of those grey areas which are not defined clearly and that causes anyone to pick a few differences and then make a group of their own!
No Sir prayer has been clearly defined in Hadees you have to follow Hadees their is no question of so called choice here
 
Keep fighting Muslims ! Over anything and everything ... The God isn't interested in the manner of your praying , idiots , he can be workshipped in many ways ... Anyways religious threads are banned in this forum fortunately ...
@Aeronaut please close the thread
ALLAH is interested in how we pray that is why he sent HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW to tell us how we should perform everything including Salah and his sayings are known as Hadees in which details of most orders are their
 
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Praise be to Allaah.

Imam Abu Haneefah is the great faqeeh and scholar of Iraq, Abu Haneefah al-Nu’maan ibn Thaabit al-Taymi al-Kufi. He was born in the year 80 AH, during the lifetime of some of the younger Sahaabah and saw Anas ibn Maalik when he came to them in Kufa. He narrated from ‘Ata’ ibn Abi Rabaah, who was his greatest Shaykh, and from al-Shu’bi and many others.

He was concerned with seeking reports and he traveled for that purpose. With regard to fiqh and examining and analyzing reports, he was the ultimate and people depended on him in that, as Imam al-Dhahabi said: “It would take two volumes to tell the story of his life, may Allaah be pleased with him and have mercy on him.”

He was an imam who was eloquent and well spoken. His student Abu Yoosuf described him as follows: “He was the most well-spoken of the people and the most clear in expressing himself. He was pious and very protective with regard to transgression of the sacred limits of Allaah. He was offered worldly gains and a great deal of wealth, but he turned his back on it. He was whipped to force him to accept the position of judge or controller of the bayt al-maal (treasury of the Islamic state) but he refused.

Many people narrated reports from him, and he died as a martyr of dropsy in 150 AH at the age of seventy. (Siyar A’laam al-Nubala’, 6/390-403; Usool al-Deen ‘inda al-Imam Abu Haneefah, p. 63).

The Hanafi madhhab is one of the four well-known madhhabs, and it was the first of the fiqhi madhhabs. It was said that “The people are dependent on Abu Haneefah with regard to fiqh.” The origin of the Hanafi madhhab and all the other madhhabs is that these four imams – I mean Abu Haneefah, Maalik, al-Shaafa’i and Ahmad – made the effort to understand the evidence of the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and they issued fatwas to people based on the evidence that had reached them. Then the followers of these imams took their fatwas and conveyed them and issued other fatwas based on them, and derived principles from them, and they set out guidelines for understanding the texts and reaching conclusions. Thus the fiqhi madhhab was formed, and the Hanafi, Shaafa’i, Maaliki and Hanbali madhhabs, and other madhhabs such as those of al-Awzaa’i and Sufyaan, but these latter madhhabs were not destined to continue.

As you can see, what these schools of fiqh are based on is following the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

With regard to the ra’y and qiyaas adopted by Imam Abu Haneefah, what this means is not opinion based on whims and desires, rather it is an opinion based on the evidence, or analogies, or following the general principles of sharee’ah. The salaf used to describe ijtihaad in difficult issues as ra’y (lit. opinion). Many of them used to say when commenting on a verse of the Book of Allaah, “This is my opinion (my ijtihaad) concerning it,” but that does not refer to opinion based on whims and desires, as stated above.

Imam Abu Haneefah followed ra’y and qiyaas a great deal in matters other than hudood punishments, expiations and other shar’i issues, and the reason for that is that he had fewer ahaadeeth at his disposal than other imams, because he came before the other imams and was very strict about accepting ahaadeeth, as false reports were so widespread in Iraq at that time and there was a great deal of tribulation.

It should be noted that not all the opinions and views of the Hanafi madhhab that is named after Imam Abu Haneefah are the words of Abu Haneefah himself, or can be correctly attributed to him. Many of those views go against what Imam Abu Haneefah himself said, but they were regarded as part of his madhhab because they were worked out according to the guidelines of the madhhab which is derived from the other texts of the imam. Similarly the Hanafi madhhab may adopt the view of a student of the imam such as Abu Yoosuf and Muhammad, and it also includes the ijtihaad of students of the imam, which subsequently became part of the madhhab. This does not apply only to the madhhab of Abu Haneefah, rather the same may be said of all the well-known madhhabs.

If it is said: If the four madhhabs are based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah, why do we find differences of opinion between them on matters of fiqh?

The answer is: Each imam issued fatwas on the basis of the evidence that reached him. A hadeeth may have reached Imam Maalik on the basis of which he issued fatwas, that did not reach Abu Haneefah, so he issued fatwas stating something different, and vice versa. Similarly a hadeeth may have reached Abu Haneefah with a saheeh isnaad so he issued fatwas on that basis, and the same hadeeth may have reached Imam al-Shaafa’i with a different isnaad that was da’eef (weak), so he did not issue fatwas based on it, or he may have issued a fatwa saying something that went against the hadeeth based on the conclusion he reached. This is why differences arose among the scholars, but ultimately the point of reference is the Qur’aan and Sunnah.

In fact, Imam Abu Haneefah and other imams followed the texts of the Qur’aan and Sunnah, even if some of their fatwas were not based on that, the reason being that all four imams stated that if a hadeeth was saheeh, then that was their madhhab, that is what they followed, on what they based their fatwas and from what they derived their evidence.

Imam Abu Haneefah said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh then that is my madhhab.” And he said: “It is not permissible for anyone to follow what we say if they do not know where we got it from.” According to another report he said: “It is haraam for the one who does not know my evidence to issue a fatwa based on my words.” And according to another report he added: “We are human, we may say something today and retract it tomorrow.” And he said: “If I say something that goes against the Book of Allaah or the report of the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), then ignore what I say.”

Imam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “I am only human, sometimes I make mistakes and sometimes I get things right. Look at my opinion and whatever is in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah, take it, and whatever is not in accordance with the Qur’aan and Sunnah, ignore it.” And he said: “There is no one after the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) whose words cannot be taken or left, apart from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).”

Imam al-Shaafa’i (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “There is no one who will not be unaware of some of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). Whatever I say or whatever guidelines I establish, if there is a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) which is different to what I said, then what matters is what the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said, and that is my opinion.”

Imam Ahmad said: “Do not follow me blindly and do not follow Maalik or al-Shaafa’i or al-Awzaa’i or al-Thawri blindly. Learn from where they learned.” And he said: “The opinion of al-Awzaa’i and the opinion of Maalik and the opinion of Abu Haneefah are all mere conjecture and it is all the same to me. Rather evidence is to be found in the reports – i.e., in the shar’i evidence.”

This is a brief look at Imam Abu Haneefah (may Allaah have mercy on him) and his madhhab. In conclusion, the Muslim cannot but acknowledge the status and position of these imams, but that should not lead us to give precedence to their views over the Book of Allaah and the saheeh reports from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), because in principle we should follow the Qur’aan and Sunnah and not the opinions of men; any man’s opinion may be taken or left, except the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him),as Imam Maalik (may Allaah have mercy on him) said
Islam Question and Answer - Brief overview of the madhhab of Imam Abu Haneefah
 
ALLAH is interested in how we pray that is why he sent HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW to tell us how we should perform everything including Salah and his sayings are known as Hadees in which details of most orders are their

Yes , every other version and in this case manner of praying except yourself of course is wrong ... Perhaps you are happy now ? :azn: ... Do you people even run out of things to fight on ?

@mods @Aeronaut @nuclearpak @Elmo close the thread please ...
 
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