Ahl al-Hadith the emerging chaos among Bangladeshi muslim

[BLACKEAGLE]

Give me a reason why one would bother at all ... I haven't heard of anyone objecting to different ways of praying by Muslims around the world in Two Holy cities ... Who cares ? The God judges by the intentions , right ?

Yes, for instance few days ago, I prayed with a guy at work and I holded my hands together while holded his arms together, but both are correct, it shouldn't be called "differences".

that what i wrote. It doesn't invalidate prayer! And we were not fighting. Just discussing!

Answer my question man....

 

[Luftwaffe]

Do you people use your heads "madhab means religion", does it mean hanifi, shafi, jaffri are different religions. If you people read the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad PB.U.H the only religion he mentioned is Islam and the people following Islam are labelled as Muslims. There is no hanifi, jaffari and so on mentioned or fortold by The Final Prophet. Authentic Hadiths are there as references and guides you may not need 4 schools of thought. Why should you people call yourselves hanafi or jaffri or ah-e hadith this is correctly termed as sects and further deviation.

As for the Authentic Prayer Style there is only one don't be fooled by hundreds of books being sold mentioning prayer style.

http://www.islamicbook.ws/english/english-020.pdf

I find this video to the point and all clear. There should be no two difference of opinion.
Dr Azkir Naik about shia,sonni and wahabi - YouTube

 

[Moander]

So what about Imam Shaafi, Imam Hanbal? They also differ from each other!! How do you define that? imam hanifa is not wrong, his rules doesn't go against any fundamental principle of prayer, so our prayer is valid! I don't know who is following Prophet muhammad pbuh exactly! So i am stopping here. I am a proud Hanafi btw

Different Imams interpreted Quran and Hadith differently that's why there are difference among four Madhabs. If a person is Mujtahid he doesn't need to follow Madhab but for rest of us we don't have enough knowledge to interpret on our own that's why madhab is needed. Glad to hear that you are a Hanafi kabiraz.

 

[Hammer-fist]

1. Abu Hanifa predates Bukhari by about a century.

In any system of historical recording Abu Hanifa and the Kufan school would be given more weight in terms of accuracy than a much later source (Bukhari).

2. The salah according to the 4 Sunni schools of thought are all valid as their arkan (pillars) and fara'id are all the same, they only differ in furoo' (subsidiary issues) such as raising of the finger during tasshahud.

Groups like the "Salafees" (a.k.a "Wahabis) make this a big issue even though all Sunni variations of salah (namaz) are valid.

The Albanee way to pray is Nasirudeen Albanee's own personal ijtihad (opinion of a scholar derived through research and interpretation) and even other "Salafees" disagree with him on some issues e.g. Sheikh Muqbil.

However they both follow books of alleged ahadeeth written 2 centuries after the prophet 'alaihi salam.

Abu Hanifa was the main Imam in the Kufan school from Iraq who are said to be followers of the sahabi Abdullah bin Masud (radi'Allahu anhu). Abu Hanifa's "fatawa" are in fact not his personal legal opinions but the opinions of him and the 40 experts that sat with him in the main mosque in Kufa.

The majority of the Hanafi school and its rulings disagree with "Abu Hanifa's fatawa" (the Kufan school in reality) and are based on the fatawa of his two main students, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad As-Shaybanee.

The problem is the Salafee teachings and mentality is very confrontational and aggressive and preaches that only they are right and all others are deviants and in essence enemies of Islam.

They claim they are the "ta'ifatul mansoorah" (victorious group) or "firqah najiha" (saved sect) mentioned in some ahadeeth and the rest of the Muslims fall amongst the 72 "deviant" groups.

In parts of Africa there have been fistfights in mosques over the correct way to pray e.g. in the Ivory Coast the traditional Malikis leave their arms besides their bodies, whilst the Salafees go mad and say this is wrong and castigate them.

3. Salafiyaa is a national security threat to Bangladesh.

Salafism often leads to violent groups e.g. Salafi-J***di e.g. "Al-Qaeda" and we can see the effects of extremism in Pakistan.

They are intolerant of other Muslims and cause division.

Some ordinary Salafis are good and decent people believing they follow a pure form of Islam free of innovations, that is fine as long as they stay humble and seek to convince people of their ways politely and through evidence but not through insults, and coercion.

I could say more but won't.

Hizbut Tahreer are another deviant group who are hated by Salafis and who hate Salafis too. They claim their founder Taqiuddeen Nabahani was a Mujtahid mutlaq (absolute jurist) so on the same legal level as the founders of the four madhahib (Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi' and Ahmad) and Nabahani even had his own "salah" (similar to the Shafi school but with some alterations).

Ahlul Hadith are similar to Salafis but differ as Ahlul Hadith think Salafis have an inclination for the Hanbali madhab (true) whilst Ahlul Hadith believe in following Bukhari's ahadeeth (2 centuries after the prophet 'alaihi salaam).

Salafis are the followers of Abdul Wahab, a Hanbali scholar from the Najd, Saudi Arabia who in turn was influenced by scholars such as Abu Hayat as Sindhi (a Sindhi scholar from modern day Pakistan) whose scholastic lineage is from other scholars such as Shah Waliullah and Ahmed Sirhindi.
@Moander, this isn't a good forum to ask such questions as you have many bigots and Bangladesh-haters on this forum, who swear, insult and gang up on anyone who disagrees with them.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Do you people use your heads "madhab means religion", does it mean hanifi, shafi, jaffri are different religions. If you people read the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad PB.U.H the only religion he mentioned is Islam and the people following Islam are labelled as Muslims. There is no hanifi, jaffari and so on mentioned or fortold by The Final Prophet. Authentic Hadiths are there as references and guides you may not need 4 schools of thought. Why should you people call yourselves hanafi or jaffri or ah-e hadith this is correctly termed as sects and further deviation.

As for the Authentic Prayer Style there is only one don't be fooled by hundreds of books being sold mentioning prayer style.

http://www.islamicbook.ws/english/english-020.pdf

I find this video to the point and all clear. There should be no two difference of opinion.
Dr Azkir Naik about shia,sonni and wahabi - YouTube

1. Madhab comes from the root verb "dhahaba" meaning "he went" or "to go" i.e it means the way/path someone followed/went in relation to an issue.

It does not mean religion.

2. Abu Hanifa, Shafi', Ahmed ibn Hanbal and Malik all predate Bukhari, Muslim who are all collectors of ahadeeth who came 2 centuries after the prophet.

Latter day figures such as Al-Albanee and Muqbil disagree with Bukhari on some issues and say some of his hadeeth are weak.

Al-Albanee also claimed at one point that wearing gold was haram for women.

The most important thing for a Muslim is Tawhid (belief and worship of Allah alone) Iman (belief in the creed) and to have good akhlaq (character) which entails humility and patience.

Islam is not as complex as some people make it out to be.

Zakir Naik is not a scholar of Islam who has legal training in fiqh (jurispudence).

According to Sunni Islam we are permitted to have difference of opinion in the furoo' (subsidiary) but not in the fundamentals of course (e.g. belief in the 6 pillars, the necessity of the 5 pillars etc).

 

[Moander]

1. Abu Hanifa predates Bukhari by about a century.

In any system of historical recording Abu Hanifa and the Kufan school would be given more weight in terms of accuracy than a much later source (Bukhari).

2. The salah according to the 4 Sunni schools of thought are all valid as their arkan (pillars) and fara'id are all the same, they only differ in furoo' (subsidiary issues) such as raising of the finger during tasshahud.

Groups like the "Salafees" (a.k.a "Wahabis) make this a big issue even though all Sunni variations of salah (namaz) are valid.

The Albanee way to pray is Nasirudeen Albanee's own personal ijtihad (opinion of a scholar derived through research and interpretation) and even other "Salafees" disagree with him on some issues e.g. Sheikh Muqbil.

However they both follow books of alleged ahadeeth written 2 centuries after the prophet 'alaihi salam.

Abu Hanifa was the main Imam in the Kufan school from Iraq who are said to be followers of the sahabi Abdullah bin Masud (radi'Allahu anhu). Abu Hanifa's "fatawa" are in fact not his personal legal opinions but the opinions of him and the 40 experts that sat with him in the main mosque in Kufa.

The majority of the Hanafi school and its rulings disagree with "Abu Hanifa's fatawa" (the Kufan school in reality) and are based on the fatawa of his two main students, Abu Yusuf and Muhammad As-Shaybanee.

The problem is the Salafee teachings and mentality is very confrontational and aggressive and preaches that only they are right and all others are deviants and in essence enemies of Islam.

They claim they are the "ta'ifatul mansoorah" (victorious group) or "firqah najiha" (saved sect) mentioned in some ahadeeth and the rest of the Muslims fall amongst the 72 "deviant" groups.

In parts of Africa there have been fistfights in mosques over the correct way to pray e.g. in the Ivory Coast the traditional Malikis leave their arms besides their bodies, whilst the Salafees go mad and say this is wrong and castigate them.

3. Salafiyaa is a national security threat to Bangladesh.

Salafism often leads to violent groups e.g. Salafi-J***di e.g. "Al-Qaeda" and we can see the effects of extremism in Pakistan.

They are intolerant of other Muslims and cause division.

Some ordinary Salafis are good and decent people believing they follow a pure form of Islam free of innovations, that is fine as long as they stay humble and seek to convince people of their ways politely and through evidence but not through insults, and coercion.

I could say more but won't.

Hizbut Tahreer are another deviant group who are hated by Salafis and who hate Salafis too. They claim their founder Taqiuddeen Nabahani was a Mujtahid mutlaq (absolute jurist) so on the same legal level as the founders of the four madhahib (Abu Hanifa, Malik, Shafi' and Ahmad) and Nabahani even had his own "salah" (similar to the Shafi school but with some alterations).

Ahlul Hadith are similar to Salafis but differ as Ahlul Hadith think Salafis have an inclination for the Hanbali madhab (true) whilst Ahlul Hadith believe in following Bukhari's ahadeeth (2 centuries after the prophet 'alaihi salaam).

Salafis are the followers of Abdul Wahab, a Hanbali scholar from the Najd, Saudi Arabia who in turn was influenced by scholars such as Abu Hayat as Sindhi (a Sindhi scholar from modern day Pakistan) whose scholastic lineage is from other scholars such as Shah Waliullah and Ahmed Sirhindi.
@Moander, this isn't a good forum to ask such questions as you have many bigots and Bangladesh-haters on this forum, who swear, insult and gang up on anyone who disagrees with them.

Thanks that's very informative article and also thanks for the heads up lol.

 

[Hammer-fist]

Yes, for instance few days ago, I prayed with a guy at work and I holded my hands together while holded his arms together, but both are correct, it shouldn't be called "differences".



Answer my question man....

1. Many Muslims don't even pray (in fact outside of the khaleej and some African countries most Muslims don't pray 5 x a day, my Sudanese friend was surprised when I told him that).

So the fact that at least someone prays is a good thing in itself!

2. As long as you pray and you fulfil the basic pillars (takbeer, qiyam, rukn, sajda etc) then your salah is valid and the most important thing is to have khushoo' (attention) in our salah as we are standing in front of the master of the universe and must be respectful.

So Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi', Hanbali it's all fine!

There are many people who pray and have beards, but backbite, cheat, rude manners and you will see they even have major problems in their life. There are others who are clean shaven with good hearts, who pray, don't preach/lecture to people and have success in their lives due to their salah and du'a being accepted by Allah and their good akhlaq.

3. Some "religious" people are jealous of people who are successful professionals (don't know if you are one) so seek to compensate by trying to act superior by giving them religious lectures and admonition.

However more important than which school of thought you pray is "tajweed" correct recitation and this is something that all Muslims (obviously non-Arabs but even some Arabs e.g. Moroccans say "tumma" instead of "thumma") have to learn and implement.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Zakir Naik is not a scholar of Islam who has legal training in fiqh (jurispudence).

According to Sunni Islam we are permitted to have difference of opinion in the furoo' (subsidiary) but not in the fundamentals of course (e.g. belief in the 6 pillars, the necessity of the 5 pillars etc).

Thankyou for explaining term madahab.

As for the rest of the post I am still correct regardless of who came first bukhari or all other imams. Under no circumstance can you call yourself or attach yourself to hanafi-salafi-malaki-hanbali-jaffri, the only term is "Muslim". When you say I am from fiqa hanafi or whatever it makes you declare another sect that is what Prophet of Islam asked to keep away from and prevent.

Here you messed it up when you said According to "sunni Islam" that is plain declaring sect, according to x according to y what are you people at. There should only be According to Prophet Muhammad as per guidance and ordained by Allah that is the bottom line so please stop twisting Islam as you said Islam is not complex so lets keep it simple.

I still strongly advise to read up the last sermon of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H which is reference there is no mention of even sunni but "Be Muslim", neither did the 4 imams ever forced or declared to who ever follows me shall call themselves from hanafi, shafi, hanbali or so on madhab.

 

[animelive]

Read Quran and Hadith, and follow the instructions as you see it right.

I am a proud Hanafi btw

I thought you were Muslim

 

[Anubis]

So what about Imam Shaafi, Imam Hanbal? They also differ from each other!! How do you define that? imam hanifa is not wrong, his rules doesn't go against any fundamental principle of prayer, so our prayer is valid! I don't know who is following Prophet muhammad pbuh exactly! So i am stopping here. I am a proud Hanafi btw

You can follow other madhabs too.......as far as I know the scholars agree on the fundamentals........you can be a Hanafi and follow elements of the other madhabs if you wish.........as for salah what are the differences are you guys talking about??Is it the takbeer before the ruku and sizdah??

 

[Luftwaffe]

Read Quran and Hadith, and follow the instructions as you see it right.


I thought you were Muslim

Haha PDF scholars declare zakir to be wrong and themselves to be right height of ignorance, never the less zakir has 30 Years under his belt regarding islamic studies and can be qualified as at least student of fiqa jurisprudence. If he chose to call himself student of islamic studies that is a humble way instead of considering himself better then everyone unlike scholars in saudi arabia.

 

[animelive]

Haha PDF scholars declare zakir to be wrong and themselves to be right height of ignorance, never the less zakir has 30 Years under his belt regarding islamic studies and can be qualified as at least student of fiqa jurisprudence. If he chose to call himself student of islamic studies that is a humble way instead of considering himself better then everyone unlike scholars in saudi arabia.

I have seen a few shows of Zakir. To me, he sounds like a sincere and knowledgable Muslim, whether he had LEGAL(wut?) training or not.

 

[Anubis]

Haha PDF scholars declare zakir to be wrong and themselves to be right height of ignorance, never the less zakir has 30 Years under his belt regarding islamic studies and can be qualified as at least student of fiqa jurisprudence. If he chose to call himself student of islamic studies that is a humble way instead of considering himself better then everyone unlike scholars in saudi arabia.

Zakir Naik is an expert Thelogian......Not a student of fiqh........you cannot give fatwas on these issues unless you are qualified and have studied under proper authority.........have you ever heard anyone calling Zakir Naik ,Sheikh Naik........no he makes it very clear when he says,'I am a student of comperative religion' over and over again in his lectures!

 

[liontk]

good day gentleman

I thought the prayer was about self analysis of ones deeds and actions and praying to allah to keep us on the righteous path of those that he has placed heaven upon atleast thats what my father told me(sura fateha). Is praying with your hands down not allowed or something and does it really make a difference. Can somebody with koranic knowledge answer that as I am not well versed in classic arabic. Have to head to universitiè soon so I am thanking in advance.

Edit: Also I am not very religious to be honest, however I believe in God and the five pillars+koran. I haven`t read hadiths so I cannot comment on that but seriously I don`t participate in hitting myself for sahaba anniversary because I think its stupid that muslims do it.

 

[Luftwaffe]

Zakir Naik is an expert Thelogian......Not a student of fiqh........you cannot give fatwas on these issues unless you are qualified and have studied under proper authority.........have you ever heard anyone calling Zakir Naik ,Sheikh Naik........no he makes it very clear when he says,'I am a student of comperative religion' over and over again in his lectures!

Hi, why do people declare everyone else kafir and themselves as muslims is it not up to sheikh ul islam with completely authority and figa to pass fatwa, we see people daily passing fatwa on people around us.

What sort of qualifications does zakir lack for the past 30 Years surely he chose not to opt for that position or line. Have you read my post I said can be qualified but chose not to and have to read my posts that zakir calls himself student of islamic studies, I am still correct.