Ah memories! :D

[Trucker]

]

He is as neutral about Pakistan as you indians or Israeli brothers

i am serious..if you dont like then nothing to say.
but i mostly like his post even in favour of pakistan

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

i am serious..if you dont like then nothing to say.
but i mostly like his post even in favour of pakistan

Can you give us favour and quote any of his post in favour of Pakistan?

 

[VelocuR]

i am serious..if you dont like then nothing to say.
but i mostly like his post even in favour of pakistan

We don't know who are you? Are you little kid here?

How come many new members to thank VCheng's posts since you join recently?

 

[VCheng]

Some are blind lovers and some are blind haters D

which one is better? lol

I think very few Pakistani are blind patriot here.

Blind is blind, and they all fall over the proverbial cliff.

 

[Trucker]

We don't know who are you? Are you little kid here?

How come many new members to thank VCheng's posts since you join recently?

i have read entire thread and thanked his post too

 

[Trucker]

Can you give us favour and quote any of his post in favour of Pakistan?

he earlier said that he doesn't support the boundary violation by america or by some one else..

now happy

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agno got caught out ..

Caught out about what?

 

[VCheng]

Caught out about what?

It was not Agno, I interpreted his question too generally.

 

[VelocuR]

Blind is blind, and they all fall over the proverbial cliff.

Are you saying our Moderators are blind and fall ? Are we blind except you (super god) only ?

 

[VCheng]

Are you saying our Moderators are blind and fall ? Are we blind except you (super god) only ?

That is not what I said.

Blind patriotism is just as harmful as blind hatred, no matter what it is about, and no matter who does it.

 

[karan.1970]

Caught out about what?

The answer is simple - Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and a host of other countries point the way.

The answer to 'when is military intervention by a foreign entity justified' is NEVER - there is no need for a qualified answer

We can talk a LOT about this, but would you consider the Kargil operation by the same yardstick? Be honest and fair now.

I owe no loyalty to India, unlike both our situations WRT the US and Pakistan.

And the Indian and Pakistani interventions in each others nations go far back in history to the creation of both nations - India intervening in Jungadh for example.

The last post ended up qualifying something you mentioned never needs a qualified answer....

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

he earlier said that he doesn't support the boundary violation by america or by some one else..

now happy

Are you sure Vcheng dont blame Pakistan for American violation of its sovereignty ?

---------- Post added at 01:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 AM ----------

That is not what I said.

Blind patriotism is just as harmful as blind hatred, no matter what it is about, and no matter who does it.

yes you are 100 percent correct but what about those who think that you also have blind criticism for Pakistan in your posts ?

 

[VCheng]

...................

yes you are 100 percent correct but what about those who think that you also have blind criticism for Pakistan in your posts ?

They have every right to think whatever they want to think. My criticisms are not made lightly. It is just that they are realistic, and reality right now is simply too unpalatable for most. Everybody knows it, some are better at denial than others, that is all.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And look, even you realize that unless something changes, Pakistan will remain subservient. We only disagree on what to do, that is all.

'Disagreement over what to do' it is, but there are some positions that are simply unacceptable, such as foreign military intervention, overt or covert, in Pakistan.

For example, what did IK's dharnas achieve, the ones that you were so vociferous about?

Why give up so quickly? How long did it take to move from 'slavery to segregation to legal freedom and acceptance' in the US?

I have never made that argument. If law and order continue to deteriorate at the rate they are, then there will be no need to bomb Pakistan. We will do the job of our destruction by own own hands.

The problem is the lack of statements on your part taking a consistently clear position against drone strikes (if unsanctioned by the Pakistani authorities, secretly or otherwise), releasing Raymond Davis, limiting US intelligence and military personnel, Abbotabad raid and others like it etc.

Yes. Then why has not all this been done? Forget FATA, the judge in the Qadri case was forced to leave the country.

The current situation hardly allows for constitutional processes to be applied. That said, the bombings, covert US military operations and threats to do so only make the process of normalization in FATA that much harder, and therefore Asim's point is correct that US actions and policies in FATA and Afghanistan are exacerbating the situation, not improving it.

Why would I expect them to give up the fight? The FATA crowd will fight, and it is up to us to fight back. The better side will win. Simple. If the FATA crowd rule Lahore and Islamabad and Karachi, it won't be palatable to most of us, I assure you.

The FATA crowd will fight for what is theirs against a foreign foe - that is their right. The US has no moral or legal right to be doing anything in response so long as it continues Afghan occupation and military strikes in FATA.

And if Pakistanis want the Mullahs to rule Pakistan, that too is their choice and their right. Western paranoia and intolerance cannot be used as preemptive justification for attacking Pakistan to enable 'regime change' in such a situation.

The perceived threat of a few hundred being killed in some potential terrorist attack is not justification for the deaths of hundreds of thousands, as we have seen the US do/cause in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan.

---------- Post added at 04:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:48 PM ----------

The last post ended up qualifying something you mentioned never needs a qualified answer....

As clarified to VCheng, the discussion was in the context of Pakistan, and not a hypothetical discussion about military interventions in general.

 

[MastanKhan]

Is becoming a Think Tank member that important here? That by not getting the title one should get so worked up about it. I mean you know who you are, right? Your education, your experience, your field of work will speak about you in your posts more than the title under your name.

Hi,

For those who just want to post---it means nothing---it is just for show and ego---but for those---who want to take it to the next level up---it gives them a massive launch pad----. Which mean to get to speak at public forums---possibly through the media as well---TV, newspaper---oppurtunites could be endless----.

It surprises me pakistanis don't think in this manner----but then a nation who believes and is waiting for someone----WE NEED SOMEBODY LIKE JINNAH AND IQBAL TO LEAD US---not realizing that it is they who are going to do it---it is them who are the Iqbal's and Jinnah's of 21st century---it is they who are he saviours of the nation----.

Look at the most progressive pakistani operated website---and what is the thinking of the management---no different than that of Zardari and co in some ways----"let them complete their term"---wait a minute---we wanted to bring change and think different---we can't even jump over the little hurdle---then how can we bring change---if we can't change outr thinking.

Hi,

All we are waiting for is HOME RUNS----4's and 6's---ie JINNAJS & IQBALS---but if you don't have the base hits in between---you won't have the 4's and 6's either----. 4's and 6's are individual performance----base hits---1's and 2's are an everyday performance----. The bottomline is to get to the promised land---so what difference does it make if you can get there with ordinary people leading the way.

Also a very sad part----after OBL scenario----nobody was capable to lead the charge for a place in the media from this board to project pakistan---nobody bothered to----.

I want to ask the management----why did you not reach out to have designated spokes people to do the job---not your favourites---not those who had been posting their wrong analysis that got smacked at their faces that day-----.

In the need of that desperate hour----when the ADMINS on his board had the oppurtunity of becoming extra-ordinary---to protect the honor of pakistan---they chose to stay ordinary----. When the honor of pakistan was being pummelled around the world----they were busy in their petty issues here of democracy and TT's constitution----.

This 40000 member strong board----could it have leveraged some air time at any media channel during the hour of the need to respond in kind----. It was a state of emergency for the nation----was their any urgency felt on this board----to respond in a tactical manner rather than acting mad and blowing froth----.

The powers to be failed to do the right thing at that critical time----you know why----a lack of experience---and believing too much in their beliefs---.