Ah memories! :D

[VCheng]

I disagree. There's always a favorite one. And I have heard that sheepish confession from quite a few mothers.

I am no "mother" but we can agree to disagree here.

(Hint: It requires discipline to be FAIR.)

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

In that case, let me assure you that it is people like me who can help ensure such a scenario NEVER happens. I can do far more good here very effectively than you or anybody else can suspect. I have openly declared my love EQUALLY for both countries many times, and thus will NEVER chose one over the other.

So you would never support any US aggression or hostility towards Pakistan, such as any attempt to bring about 'regime change', 'secure Pakistani nukes', 'carry out unilateral military operations in Pakistan ala the Abbottabad raid'?

 

[gubbi]

To be frank with you, it isn't your views, but the concerns that you would choose the US over Pakistan in any hypothetical US-Pak confrontation at any time in the near future.

Shouldn't your loyalties lie where lies your citizenship? Its a choice one makes afterall, right?

---------- Post added at 09:31 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:30 AM ----------

I am no "mother" but we can agree to disagree here.

(Hint: It requires discipline to be FAIR.)

How can you bring 'Discipline' in matters of the heart?

 

[VelocuR]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/137477-yo-memories-d.html#post2233474

 

[VCheng]

Shouldn't your loyalties lie where lies your citizenship? Its a choice one makes afterall, right?

Exactly. Why do you think countries allow dual citizenship?

How can you bring 'Discipline' in matters of the heart?

I graduated from a military school. Discipline is in everything I do.

 

[MastanKhan]

Is becoming a Think Tank member that important here? That by not getting the title one should get so worked up about it. I mean you know who you are, right? Your education, your experience, your field of work will speak about you in your posts more than the title under your name.

Hi,

For those who just want to post---it means nothing---it is just for show and ego---but for those---who want to take it to the next level up---it gives them a massive launch pad----. Which mean to get to speak at public forums---possibly through the media as well---TV, newspaper---oppurtunites could be endless----.

It surprises me pakistanis don't think in this manner----but then a nation who believes and is waiting for someone----WE NEED SOMEBODY LIKE JINNAH AND IQBAL TO LEAD US---not realizing that it is they who are going to do it---it is them who are the Iqbal's and Jinnah's of 21st century---it is they who are he saviours of the nation----.

Look at the most progressive pakistani operated website---and what is the thinking of the management---no different than that of Zardari and co in some ways----"let them complete their term"---wait a minute---we wanted to bring change and think different---we can't even jump over the little hurdle---then how can we bring change---if we can't change outr thinking.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Shouldn't your loyalties lie where lies your citizenship? Its a choice one makes afterall, right?

It becomes more complicated when one is a naturalized citizen.

One cannot, and should not, ignore the land of ones birth and upbringing - that land of ones birth and upbringing is a key part of ones development and how an individual is shaped, and possibly a key part of that individual existing in the first place.

Our identity is the sum of all our experiences, and the land where one was born and brought up cannot be simply ignored over a piece of paper allowing certain rights in a different nation than that one was born in.

 

[VCheng]

So you would never support any US aggression or hostility towards Pakistan, such as any attempt to bring about 'regime change', 'secure Pakistani nukes', 'carry out unilateral military operations in Pakistan ala the Abbottabad raid'?

As long as Pakistan is capable of doing these things, and I am sure that it is, I can categorically state that I would not support any of those things. They are wrong.

My fear is insidious collapse of institutions, economy and civil society over years, and the only reason for the qualification I give above.

Hence all my efforts would be to prevent any of those scenarios from ever happening, and to oppose them effectively on both sides.

I hope I am able to explain my thought process as honestly and fairly as it appears in my mind.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

which military school???

 

[VCheng]

which military school???

Does it matter?

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Yes.

It does.

 

[VCheng]

Yes.

It does.

I think we will have a nice chat over coffee at some point. Can you wait for that please?

 

[MastanKhan]

I know him and his struggles well, even played Scrabble with him once.

(Your pontification is totally unnecessary and off base.)

And he is not the only one, I know of many, many others in DTD, NESCOM, KRL, etc. etc. much better that you could ever suspect.

Trust me, I did not run away. That is all I have to say here.



In that case, let me assure you that it is people like me who can help ensure such a scenario NEVER happens. I can do far more good here very effectively than you or anybody else can suspect. I have openly declared my love EQUALLY for both countries many times, and thus will NEVER chose one over the other.

I can explain myself even further if you wish, but I will not be insinuated as a traitor-in-waiting. I trust I make myself clear.

And I intend to try again for the TT if allowed to in due course.

Hi,

Like I have learnt---you too need to learn---that us pakistanis our own worst enemies---. It is just their egos that don't allow anyone else to come and take charge---.

If it was any other progressive ethnic group---a group of white people---jews---they would have said---yeah---you can---come on in and show us what you can do---and here is the pedastal that you wanted to stand on---.

What does TT mean to some of these kids---who are either still in school ( univ ) or doing their job---other than to strut amongst friends---hey I am TT----.

Evene some of the super mods over here had their ideas of their own greatness---but they got smashed during the OBL scenario---.

You played scrabble with him---I enjoyed his chicken---whe we were his neighbours---.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As long as Pakistan is capable of doing these things, and I am sure that it is, I can categorically state that I would not support any of those things. They are wrong.

My fear is insidious collapse of institutions, economy and civil society over years, and the only reason for the qualification I give above.

Hence all my efforts would be to prevent any of those scenarios from ever happening, and to oppose them effectively on both sides.

I hope I am able to explain my thought process as honestly and fairly as it appears in my mind.

I understand your concern over the collapse of society and institutions, but 'when' such a 'collapse' is achieved is a subjective matter, and 'how' such a collapse is brought about (perhaps with the participation of the US) very relevant.

There are some in the US who argue that the time for 'military intervention in Pakistan' is now, and that doing so would advance US objectives in the region and assist in 'stabilizing Pakistan'. Who determines when there is truly a need for 'intervention'?

And even if there is need for 'intervention', what will the costs of military intervention be, and will the US have played a part in bringing the situation to a point where intervention is justified?

There are too many variables here, too many undefined 'what ifs', and, therefore, a 'qualified answer' such as the one you offered, is not really adequate.

 

[VCheng]

Hi,

Like I have learnt---you too need to learn---that us pakistanis our own worst enemies---. It is just their egos that don't allow anyone else to come and take charge---.

If it was any other progressive ethnic group---a group of white people---jews---they would have said---yeah---you can---come on in and show us what you can do---and here is the pedastal that you wanted to stand on---.

What does TT mean to some of these kids---who are either still in school ( univ ) or doing their job---other than to strut amongst friends---hey I am TT----.

Evene some of the super mods over here had their ideas of their own greatness---but they got smashed during the OBL scenario---.

You played scrabble with him---I enjoyed his chicken---whe we were his neighbours---.

I am a perpetual student, I am still learning.

This thread is proof that even on PDF, content loses out to perceived identity. I'd rather not have to expose my identity anymore than I have to, but if that is what it takes then so be it.

I could be out having a very nice time, but the only reason I am here is because I think PDF is that important, for it has potential to effect positive changes. It is just that realizing potential takes hard work, not just words, just like Thar Coal and Reko Diq Copper!