Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history

[Armstrong]

For some one who claims to have represented the Muslims of India Jinnah actually had very little knowledge of Muslims in the country and how they lived and what they thought or wanted. He may have galvanized the ML into adopting the Pakistan idea but it is the Bengal Muslims who ran with it. The Two Nation theory does not belong to one man or country and involves the contribution of several people and finds best cause from the suffering of the Bengal Muslims at the hands of their Hindu overlords. Something the West Pakistanis never had to face but used as an excuse for partition. I agree with you that present day Bangladesh has lost much of its history through the deliberate machinations of India and the AL but the thesis still remains the same or otherwise the country would have been rendered a vassal state or protectorate of India soon after 1971. As for how Pakistan is doing we get the latest news about the dozens of bombings, massacres and terrorist acts on an almost weekly basis. Pakistan should sort its won problems out before blaming Muslim Bengalis for the mess of its own creation which is actually its diversion away from the Two Nation Theory as envisaged by Jinnah.

Indeed the Bengali Muslims played their due role but let us not get ahead of ourselves for they, like every other Muslim Group in the Indian Subcontinent, ran nowhere but in circles with their 'demand' because they, like everyone else, were a leaderless & rudderless ship !

It was Quaid-e-Azam who gave them direction, it was Quaid-e-Azam who was the embodiment of the will & wants of millions of Muslims & it was Quaid-e-Azam in whom Iqbal placed his trust ! Iqbal - who gave the 'idea' first, before any Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, Hyderabadi or Baluch had an inkling of it, in his Allahabad Address of 1930.

At any rate the birth of the Muslim League in Dhaka doesn't mean a thing except the continued perpetuation of a victim mentality ! The Lahore Resolution, the Allahabad Address & the subsequent Pakistan Resolution were all passed outside of Bengal along with most notables associated with the Muslim League at her inception (Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Sir Muhammad Shafi, Aga Khan III) & later on (Iqbal, Jinnah, the Ali Brothers etc.) were not just Bengalis so enough of this claim to a moral right that you do not have !

We have given ample sacrifices for the Pakistan Movement too & the fact that just because we weren't oppressed enough before the Congress Ministries Era & the events leading up to the Partition (10 or so years before Pakistan) doesn't automatically exclude us from the laurels that are associated with the Pakistan Movement & somehow the Muslims from the Muslim Minority Provinces & those of Bengal have some fictitious first movers advantage !

Whatever the thesis may or may not mean the ground realities show a different picture - Iqbal, Fatima Jinnah, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, other stalwarts of the Pakistan Movement etc. - Suffice it to say everyone who isn't a Bengali gets excluded from the National Narrative of Bangladesh where we - the West Pakistanis - are evil incarnate whilst you - the poor & oppressed Bengalis - are either the dove of peace or the golden goose whose being used & abused by West Pakistanis ! Where every story is a story of neglect, abuse & victimhood & all that went before '71, unless it can somehow be connected to that victimhood, isn't part of the story anymore !

As far as how Pakistan is doing right now - Thank You very much we're doing well enough ! Yes there are issues....grave issues but that is because of the security paradigm & historical continuity of the '70s & the '80s along with a belligerence of World Powers in the region along with our mistakes....grave mistakes !

But be that as it may where did any of us blame the Muslims of Bengal for anything that we're going through ? Contrary to popular opinion - No one really gives a foOk about that here !

Speaking of the Muslims of Bengal - You can ask those illegal Muslims of Bengal staying here in Pakistan who they find Pakistan & if things are that bad - massacres, bombings, etc on a weekly basis why don't they go back to the Promised Land - Bangladesh ?


' @Secur - Zindaaa bhhiii haaiii yaaa nahin ? Comment hiii nahin kartaaa !

 

[Dillinger]

Indeed the Bengali Muslims played their due role but let us not get ahead of ourselves for they, like every other Muslim Group in the Indian Subcontinent, ran nowhere but in circles with their 'demand' because they, like everyone else, were a leaderless & rudderless ship !

It was Quaid-e-Azam who gave them direction, it was Quaid-e-Azam who was the embodiment of the will & wants of millions of Muslims & it was Quaid-e-Azam in whom Iqbal placed his trust ! Iqbal - who gave the 'idea' first, before any Bengali, Punjabi, Sindhi, Hyderabadi or Baluch had an inkling of it, in his Allahabad Address of 1930.

At any rate the birth of the Muslim League in Dhaka doesn't mean a thing except the continued perpetuation of a victim mentality ! The Lahore Resolution, the Allahabad Address & the subsequent Pakistan Resolution were all passed outside of Bengal along with most notables associated with the Muslim League at her inception (Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Sir Muhammad Shafi, Aga Khan III) & later on (Iqbal, Jinnah, the Ali Brothers etc.) were not just Bengalis so enough of this claim to a moral right that you do not have !

We have given ample sacrifices for the Pakistan Movement too & the fact that just because we weren't oppressed enough before the Congress Ministries Era & the events leading up to the Partition (10 or so years before Pakistan) doesn't automatically exclude us from the laurels that are associated with the Pakistan Movement & somehow the Muslims from the Muslim Minority Provinces & those of Bengal have some fictitious first movers advantage !

Whatever the thesis may or may not mean the ground realities show a different picture - Iqbal, Fatima Jinnah, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, other stalwarts of the Pakistan Movement etc. - Suffice it to say everyone who isn't a Bengali gets excluded from the National Narrative of Bangladesh where we - the West Pakistanis - are evil incarnate whilst you - the poor & oppressed Bengalis - are either the dove of peace or the golden goose whose being used & abused by West Pakistanis ! Where every story is a story of neglect, abuse & victimhood & all that went before '71, unless it can somehow be connected to that victimhood, isn't part of the story anymore !

As far as how Pakistan is doing right now - Thank You very much we're doing well enough ! Yes there are issues....grave issues but that is because of the security paradigm & historical continuity of the '70s & the '80s along with a belligerence of World Powers in the region along with our mistakes....grave mistakes !

But be that as it may where did any of us blame the Muslims of Bengal for anything that we're going through ? Contrary to popular opinion - No one really gives a foOk about that here !

Speaking of the Muslims of Bengal - You can ask those illegal Muslims of Bengal staying here in Pakistan who they find Pakistan & if things are that bad - massacres, bombings, etc on a weekly basis why don't they go back to the Promised Land - Bangladesh ?


' @Secur - Zindaaa bhhiii haaiii yaaa nahin ? Comment hiii nahin kartaaa !

Oh so now you want to call in the cavalry ( @Secur ) to further torture my masoom bangla brothers! Haven't you already done enough, jalaad!?

 

[LaBong]

Couldn't agree more! It was Bengalis who created Pakistan, it was Bengalis who supported Pakistan but in return we only got betrayal! However, we have maintained our friendly gesture towards Pakistan by granting Bangladeshi citizenship to the 3 million Pakistani refugees and allowing hundreds of Pakistani students every year to study in our country.



I've already agreed to that bold part in my earlier post, Jinnah always tried to have the strongest possible Pakistan against India but he didn't care a whit if his plans would hurt of some of his fellow Muslims or not. Nevertheless, in the post I tried to imply that even though Jinnah was considered a supreme leader of the Muslims of the subcontinent, his works couldn't justify his position at all.



In 2012 West Bengal's per capita income was 34,229 Rs or 622 USD (1 USD = 55 Rs) with a growth rate of 7.06. At this growth rate, it won't be more than 700 USD in 2013 while the per capita income of Bangladesh is 1,047 USD, big difference!

http://pbplanning.gov.in/pdf/Statewise%20GSDP%20PCI%20and%20G.R.pdf

According to your link India's per capita income is Rs 38000 which is around 690 dollars with a conversion rate of 55 Rs = 1 dollar which is 300 dollar less than Bangladesh.

Please don't waste my time by comparing West Bengal's per capita income in constant rate with BD per capita income in current rate, you seem to have taken a leaf out of CaPtAiN_pLaNeT's book.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-02-07/news/36972679_1_constant-prices-income-in-real-terms-capita-income

 

[LaBong]

And also GNI is not correct measure of economic prosperity. For example if IBM opens a shop in West Bengal, the profit will be added to US GNI (since its a US based company) and West Bengal GDP. Thats why GDP is always proffered over GNI.

Anyway let's not digress anymore.

 

[Secur]

@Armstrong If you want my reply , please from next time , leave something for me to reply .

But , honestly Bengalis are mistaken in both cases - neither they are hated in today's Pakistan nor are relevant or considered important as per the popular thought . A common Pakistani today doesn't care about Bangladesh . The fact that they have omitted the leaders of United Pakistan from their own history and lives speaks volumes about the loyalty to " Two Nation Theory " . On the other hand , Maulvi Fazlul Haq , Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy , Khawaja Nazimuddin amongst others still are revered people of East Pakistan in Islamabad's territory . Millions of Bangladeshi citizens who came illegally after the formation of their country live peacefully and without discrimination here , can I say the same about the " stranded Pakistanis " living under their rule ?

 

[Dillinger]

@Armstrong If you want my reply , please from next time , leave something for me to reply .

But , honestly Bengalis are mistaken in both cases - neither they are hated in today's Pakistan nor are relevant or considered important as per the popular thought . A common Pakistani today doesn't care about Bangladesh . The fact that they have omitted the leaders of United Pakistan from their own history and lives speaks volumes about the loyalty to " Two Nation Theory " . On the other hand , Maulvi Fazlul Haq , Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy , Khawaja Nazimuddin amongst others still are revered people of East Pakistan in Islamabad's territory . Millions of Bangladeshi citizens who came illegally after the formation of their country live peacefully and without discrimination here , can I say the same about the " stranded Pakistanis " living under their rule ?

STOP picking on my cousins! OR ELSE......

 

[Secur]

Can anyone tell me what happened on August 15, 1975??

Some say that the date of Mujib's assassination was a well thought and carefully chosen one intended to give a message . Maybe , it is true .

 

[Armstrong]

@Secur - Phir Uncle sei kubbb PDF peiii Mulakaaat karvaa rahaa haiii ?

I'm sure he cut through the 'narratives' as if they were made up of butter !













Sh*t....butter ke reference neiii bhoook lagaaa diii !

 

[Saiful Islam]

@Armstrong If you want my reply , please from next time , leave something for me to reply .

But , honestly Bengalis are mistaken in both cases - neither they are hated in today's Pakistan nor are relevant or considered important as per the popular thought . A common Pakistani today doesn't care about Bangladesh . The fact that they have omitted the leaders of United Pakistan from their own history and lives speaks volumes about the loyalty to " Two Nation Theory " . On the other hand , Maulvi Fazlul Haq , Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy , Khawaja Nazimuddin amongst others still are revered people of East Pakistan in Islamabad's territory . Millions of Bangladeshi citizens who came illegally after the formation of their country live peacefully and without discrimination here , can I say the same about the " stranded Pakistanis " living under their rule ?

I agree with you 100%, I have family in Karachi who are living peacefully, although they are recent to Pakistan's Bangladeshi community. Regarding your statement about Pakistani's not caring about Bangladeshis, yes that's true but Bangladeshi's also don't care about Pakistanis. In the western world where this a lot of Pakistani and Bangladeshi diaspora both communities mingle together a lot which have resulted in stereotypes, although they are purely banter. Bangladeshis are always asking why Bangladeshis and Pakistanis are always deemed into the same group, why we have to associate with them etc?

Bangladeshi's don't like being associated with Pakistanis or Indians or want to be deemed as "desi" infact. Sorry I'm going off note but desi is a recent phenomenon in Bangladesh and have only found out what desi means, I would think desi refers more Central/North Indians and Pakistanis.

This is not a hate reply, I'm simply stating what based on anecdotal/life experiences.

@Armstrong If you want my reply , please from next time , leave something for me to reply .

But , honestly Bengalis are mistaken in both cases - neither they are hated in today's Pakistan nor are relevant or considered important as per the popular thought . A common Pakistani today doesn't care about Bangladesh . The fact that they have omitted the leaders of United Pakistan from their own history and lives speaks volumes about the loyalty to " Two Nation Theory " . On the other hand , Maulvi Fazlul Haq , Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy , Khawaja Nazimuddin amongst others still are revered people of East Pakistan in Islamabad's territory . Millions of Bangladeshi citizens who came illegally after the formation of their country live peacefully and without discrimination here , can I say the same about the " stranded Pakistanis " living under their rule ?

And tbh, new generations Bangladeshis have no hate towards Pakistanis, most case they've never met a Pakistani. I've lived in a Pakistani and Bangladeshi area and can tell differences from a mile away. Bangladeshis are more football lovers, while the Pakistani youth love Cricket. Pakistanis are more established in the Grocery business, while Bangladeshis are established in the restaurant business that's not to say Pakistanis don't have restaurants because they do. Bangladeshis are more Deobandi, although the Bengali's don't regard this Deobandi/Brelvi stuff that much it's more prevalent in the Pakistani masjids. Both communities are at peace, who ever is trying to cause disunity amongst is it's the Indians where letting mushreek ***** us over...Even now on this very forum.

 

[Secur]

@Saiful Islam

Thank you , mate . My father - a Bihari personally has friends from the former East Pakistan who either migrated before creation of Bangladesh or after it , he still gets some discount from his old tailor in Orangi Town , Karachi speaking fluent Bengali . In my personal opinion , East Bengal should have been a separate country from the start as envisioned by our great leaders . The younger generation is different , too different , I agree . We simply do not care about anyone's race/ethnicity/religion compared to our elders . I am glad to hear that the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities peacefully coexist in Western countries/abroad . I am aware of the fact that this isn't a " hate reply " , the tone and the language speaks for itself , my friend .

 

[extra terrestrial]

@Armstrong If you want my reply , please from next time , leave something for me to reply .

But , honestly Bengalis are mistaken in both cases - neither they are hated in today's Pakistan nor are relevant or considered important as per the popular thought . A common Pakistani today doesn't care about Bangladesh . The fact that they have omitted the leaders of United Pakistan from their own history and lives speaks volumes about the loyalty to " Two Nation Theory " . On the other hand , Maulvi Fazlul Haq , Huseyn Shaheed Suhrawardy , Khawaja Nazimuddin amongst others still are revered people of East Pakistan in Islamabad's territory . Millions of Bangladeshi citizens who came illegally after the formation of their country live peacefully and without discrimination here , can I say the same about the " stranded Pakistanis " living under their rule ?

Those illegal Bangladeshis also include the Biharis who were repatriated after 1971.

Much of the Bangladeshi-origin population also includes the thousands of stateless Biharis (called Stranded Pakistanis) who were allowed resettlement in Pakistan after the 1971 war in Bangladesh.

Bengalis in Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

About the condition of the stranded Pakistanis (many of whom have their roots in present day Pakistan), it would be a mixed review. Most of them have accepted the Bangladeshi citizenship and are living quite peacefully. However, some (about 400,00) still refuse to accept the citizenship and hence found their way in those refugee camps. But it's beyond doubt that they are living in a far better condition than their counterparts in Pakistan.

Bihari Colony is now a slum where most of the apartments are occupied by local Punjabis. Three narrow lanes are still inhabited by the Biharis. And many of the houses on those streets are in ruins.

Repatriated or stranded in Bangladesh, Biharis still divided and without a home | The National

Some Pakistani Biharis also started to migrate to Bangladesh because of the poor living conditions there.

Samad said that he found a place on the outskirts of Karachi, and a job. But the money was not enough to live on. Neither did he feel welcome in the southern port city where simmering ethnic tensions among different migrant communities have repeatedly erupted in gun battles that have killed several thousands and brought Pakistan's economic life to a standstill.

His illusions about a better life in Pakistan shattered, he has come back to Bangladesh, and is desperately hunting for some work.

Rediff On The NeT: Bangla Biharis weary of wait to migrate to Pakistan

 

[Saiful Islam]

@Saiful Islam

Thank you , mate . My father - a Bihari personally has friends from the former East Pakistan who either migrated before creation of Bangladesh or after it , he still gets some discount from his old tailor in Orangi Town , Karachi speaking fluent Bengali . In my personal opinion , East Bengal should have been a separate country from the start as envisioned by our great leaders . The younger generation is different , too different , I agree . We simply do not care about anyone's race/ethnicity/religion compared to our elders . I am glad to hear that the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities peacefully coexist in Western countries/abroad . I am aware of the fact that this isn't a " hate reply " , the tone and the language speaks for itself , my friend .

Haha, Bangladeshis are very good tailors especially our Granddads! In the UK we have more things to worry about than old quarrels in the past, we have threats such as the far right English Defence League who march into Muslim dominated areas chanting anti-Islamic things, attacking our Muslimah, attempting to attack our Masjids, thus making the Bengali and Pakistani youth stick together to beat them up. Maybe where not ready now, but I still believe in a Caliphate state, one ummah under the banner of Islam. Even though we say it was for the better Pakistan splitting, we have to acknowledge that it was a serious blow to the ummah. A country of more than 300 million muslims, I think it's wrong to say that a 2 nation theory wouldn't work, why won't it work? If we have Islam, then it shouldn't and that's what we were all lacking.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

At any rate the birth of the Muslim League in Dhaka doesn't mean a thing except the continued perpetuation of a victim mentality ! The Lahore Resolution, the Allahabad Address & the subsequent Pakistan Resolution were all passed outside of Bengal along with most notables associated with the Muslim League at her inception (Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, Sir Muhammad Shafi, Aga Khan III) & later on (Iqbal, Jinnah, the Ali Brothers etc.) were not just Bengalis so enough of this claim to a moral right that you do not have !

And this omission to suitably give recognition to the Bengal Muslims still rancours today ... Why were not the important decisions made in Bengal where the urgency for Pakistan was greatest?

We have given ample sacrifices for the Pakistan Movement too & the fact that just because we weren't oppressed enough before the Congress Ministries Era & the events leading up to the Partition (10 or so years before Pakistan) doesn't automatically exclude us from the laurels that are associated with the Pakistan Movement & somehow the Muslims from the Muslim Minority Provinces & those of Bengal have some fictitious first movers advantage !

The movement for Pakistan in Bengal arose from real grievances and not politically opportunistic demands made in the West.

Whatever the thesis may or may not mean the ground realities show a different picture - Iqbal, Fatima Jinnah, Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah, other stalwarts of the Pakistan Movement etc. - Suffice it to say everyone who isn't a Bengali gets excluded from the National Narrative of Bangladesh where we - the West Pakistanis - are evil incarnate whilst you - the poor & oppressed Bengalis - are either the dove of peace or the golden goose whose being used & abused by West Pakistanis ! Where every story is a story of neglect, abuse & victimhood & all that went before '71, unless it can somehow be connected to that victimhood, isn't part of the story anymore !

That is a position I do not subscribe to and have never advocated.

But be that as it may where did any of us blame the Muslims of Bengal for anything that we're going through ? Contrary to popular opinion - No one really gives a foOk about that here !

And thats why you spend so much time arguing over this issue on PDF???

Speaking of the Muslims of Bengal - You can ask those illegal Muslims of Bengal staying here in Pakistan who they find Pakistan & if things are that bad - massacres, bombings, etc on a weekly basis why don't they go back to the Promised Land - Bangladesh ?

I hear the most qualified are going to India. Isn't there a thread about doctors from Sindh emigrating to India?

 

[Armstrong]

And this omission to suitably give recognition to the Bengal Muslims still rancours today ... Why were not the important decisions made in Bengal where the urgency for Pakistan was greatest?

What decision did you want to be made in Bengal ? This ludicrous centricism of 'me....me....me' is what harmed the country in the first place !

The movement for Pakistan in Bengal arose from real grievances and not politically opportunistic demands made in the West.

Real Grievances ? Real Grievances as in you hadn't any land & were discriminated against at ? What do you think happened in Sindh & in other Muslim Minority Provinces ? What do you think happened in the Punjab where most of the Intelligentsia & most certainly the Business Class wasn't from amongst us !

There is a historical context to the Bengal thing starting from the Partition & then the Reversal of Bengal's Partitioning in the early 1900s when real bona fide political awakening kicked in but to assert that somehow because the Bengalis were worse-off in their own land...the rest of us used to bathe in milk & honey every day & any demand from us was mere political opportunism is naivete at best or a toxic & most assuredly false vaingloriousness at the very worst !

That is a position I do not subscribe to and have never advocated.

If only exceptions were the rule !

And thats why you spend so much time arguing over this issue on PDF???

I didn't open a single thread on this issue but in my time here I've seen a thread on it popping up every now & then & not many of them are by Pakistanis !

At any rate if my Motherland is talked about with toxic aspersions cast against it - Then its personal !

However show me a single Bengali that I quoted here on this thread where I've initiated the conversation ? I quoted a Pakistani.

I hear the most qualified are going to India. Isn't there a thread about doctors from Sindh emigrating to India?

Yes apparently some Hindu Doctors from Sindh are fleeing the country, however that is true or otherwise is moot ! But I certainly wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be true - Wars & at that wars with significant religious overtones have a habit of doing that to the minorities - Deplorable & Most Condemnable !

But none of the Pakistani Hindus from Sindh are one of the 2 million plus Illegal Bengalis in Pakistan !

 

[Vinod2070]

Ladai ladai maaf karo...

Doggy ki **** saaf karo.