After Nawaz visit, Pak’s ‘real’ Sharif heads to US

[Barrel-Bomba]

WASHINGTON: Washington DC is not a very big city by world capital standards, but evidently this town ain't big enough for two Sharifs from Pakistan to visit at the same time. Three weeks after the country's enfeebled PM Nawaz Sharif visited the White House to meet President Obama, the nation's army chief General Raheel Sharif will arrive here on a trip where real business is expected to be conducted.

General Sharif will not be meeting President Obama, but there is little doubt that Washington regards him as the "real Sharif" and the "big Sharif", with whom it can do business, although it is not clear if he is seen as the better or worse of the two Sharifs.

READ ALSO: Nawaz Sharif made to listen more than talk when he met Obama — Daily

The US seldom sees an uniformed general it does not like, and the broad view in Washington is that Gen Raheel Sharif is still in his honeymoon phase with the US, where credulous spinmeisters weave yarns about the country's progressive and professional generals who will deliver results prescribed by America, the same way expectations were set up for Sharif's predecessors Kayani and Musharraf, before they were condemned.

The sheer chutzpah of an army shill announcing that the general will be holding meetings with the political leadership of a country he is visiting would be surprising anywhere except in the case of Pakistan where the khakhis have long called the shots behind a civilian facade.

The current military dispensation has been even more ruthless in asserting its primacy. Just days before PM Nawaz Sharif embarked on his visit to US last month, his NSA Sartaj Aziz was summarily relieved of his post and replaced with a retired three-star general, Naseer Khan Janjua. Janjua effectively became the civilian government's minder to ensure it did not cave into US pressure during the Washington visit.

READ ALSO: Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif heckled during speech in Washington

Such military oversight and control is now quite common across world capitals with Pakistan's khaki-designated minders even reporting to Rawalpindi's military intelligence establishment on the various ambassadors appointed by the civilian government, according to sources familiar with the workings of Pakistani embassies abroad. In fact, several key ambassadorships are held by retired military generals in an open display of who really calls the shots in a country that is only notionally a democracy. None of this has prevented any of the US administrations to continue the tedious facade of dealing with the powerless civilian governments.

After Nawaz visit, Pak’s ‘real’ Sharif heads to US - Times of India

 

[ito]

US can deal directly with the real Sharif...India does have that luxury of dealing with the real Sharif....Hence India and Pak relation are one step forward and five step backward. Ufa is a good example.

Until Pakistan Army is the real ruler of Pakistan, the state of Indo-Pak relations would not change.

 

[WishLivePak]

US can deal directly with the real Sharif...India does have that luxury of dealing with the real Sharif....Hence India and Pak relation are one step forward and five step backward. Ufa is a good example.

Until Pakistan Army is the real ruler of Pakistan, the state of Indo-Pak relations would not change.

or we can wait until army stop presenting itself as saviour of the country and so it knows best.

Granted army is doing good job at fighting domestic terrorism, but it was the army that created these terrorists under zia, then mush.

 

[Indika]

Until Pakistan Army is the real ruler of Pakistan, the state of Indo-Pak relations would not change.

Agreed, no use talking to dummies. Once military is in power they will have the responsibility and behave in a sane manner. Musharaf is a good example of that.

 

[ito]

or we can wait until army stop presenting itself as saviour of the country and so it knows best.

Granted army is doing good job at fighting domestic terrorism, but it was the army that created these terrorists under zia, then mush.

I would not like to comment on terrorism inside Pakistan...but Pakistan Army is the elephant in the negotiation room between India and Pakistan. India has no idea how to deal with that elephant as it doesn't enjoy direct relation with Pakistan's Army.

Agreed, no use talking to dummies. Once military is in power they will have the responsibility and behave in a sane manner. Musharaf is a good example of that.

That is why credible progress on Kashmir, however debatable his Kashmir formula was, has been made during Mush's tenure.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

Rahil Sharif is man to admire...
Now obama will heckled....

 

[Viper0011.]

WASHINGTON: Washington DC is not a very big city by world capital standards, but evidently this town ain't big enough for two Sharifs from Pakistan to visit at the same time. Three weeks after the country's enfeebled PM Nawaz Sharif visited the White House to meet President Obama, the nation's army chief General Raheel Sharif will arrive here on a trip where real business is expected to be conducted.

READ ALSO: Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif heckled during speech in Washington

After Nawaz visit, Pak’s ‘real’ Sharif heads to US - Times of India

This is the new Indian strategy I was referring to in my post in that other protocol thread. These guys now want to exploit weaknesses through people in Pakistan who don't like NS or the Military. In a recent meeting in New Delhi, one of the biggest concerns in "dealing with Pakistan" was the strongest ever Civil-Military relationship. It has caused India defeat and embarrassment on many fronts. Just as an example, the Russian decision to sell weapons to Pakistan, despite extremely strong protesting and anger shown by India, has hurt a LOT of Indian leaders very bad.

One of the only major counter option was to use people who hate NS or the military and exploit them through the social medial, print and electronic media and use exploitation techniques, against NS and RS. Resulting in a clash that would start to show how "RS" is gaining more power, and put NS on the defense. The result of all this, could be another coupe, destruction of the current system at the minimum, to a total collapse of the Pakistani state as a civil war would erupt if things go too far, IK's party will jump in too. All of this, will start from social media, then print and electronic media and then to everywhere, creating an environment filled with tension and hate, where no one would understand how so much misunderstanding took place and how it all started, and so quickly!!

First wave of this were the facebook and youtube / twitter videos of RS, followed by many articles by different media outlets in India (specifically), and in other places. And then, a very strong, and forceful propaganda on all mediums, leading to damage and destruction within the Pakistani system and a potential civil war as this time, people will be against the military rule, add IK's party wanting power, will add more issues, and this entire thing will damage Pakistan's current stability and all progress made, including the CPEC.

The above articles from Times of India, and many Social Media and Facebook posts on causing confusions between NS and RS are an example of this entire new strategy to damage Pakistan. The next step will be very intense media campaign.

So my Pakistani forum friends, this is the time, you should stand together for your country's growth and stability. NOT for NS or RS. Reject these separations and break these plans to damage Pakistan. There is a serious media trial coming up, the only way to get through is by rejecting divide and supporting Pakistan, not individuals or institutions.

@SipahSalar @TankMan @Horus @Slav Defence @MastanKhan @WebMaster , @Bratva, @I S I : guys, read above. This is why I was commenting that vs. thread on RS's visit to KSA. The above is as real as a live human can be. This entire media campaign has over $ 500 million funding to be spread across countries to create a serious break between Pakistan''s Civil and Military relationship. Please educate others so you know what's coming. Don't tell me I didn't warn you!!!

 

[Barrel-Bomba]

This is the new Indian strategy I was referring to in my post in that other protocol thread. These guys now want to exploit weaknesses through people in Pakistan who don't like NS or the Military. In a recent meeting in New Delhi, one of the biggest concerns in "dealing with Pakistan" was the strongest ever Civil-Military relationship. It has caused India defeat and embarrassment on many fronts. Just as an example the Russian decision to sell weapons to Pakistan, despite extremely strong protesting and anger shown by India, has hurt a LOT of Indian leaders very bad.

One of the only counter option was to use people who hate NS or the military, use social medial, print and electronic media and populate it with exploitation against NS and against RS. Resulting in a clash that would start to show how "RS" is gaining more power, and put NS on the defense. The result of all this, could be another coupe, destruction of the current system at the minimum, to a total collapse of the Pakistani state as a civil war would erupt if things go too far, IK's party will jump in too. All of this, will start from social media, then print and electronic media and then to everywhere, creating an environment filled with tension and hate, where no one would understand how so much misunderstanding took place and how it all started.

First wave of this were the facebook and youtube / twitter videos of RS, followed by many articles by different media outlets in India (specifically), and in other places. And then, a very strong, and forceful propaganda on all mediums, leading to damage and destruction within the Pakistani system and a potential civil war as this time, people will be against the military rule, add IK's party wanting power, it'll damage Pakistan's current stability and will damage all progress, including the CPEC.

The above articles from Times of India, and many Social Media and Facebook posts on causing confusions between NS and RS are an example of this entire new strategy to damage Pakistan. The next step will be very intense media campaign. So my Pakistani forum friends, this is the time, you should stand together for your country's growth and stability. NOT for NS or RS. Reject these separations and break these plans to damage Pakistan. There is a serious media trial coming up, the only way to get through is by rejecting divide and supporting Pakistan, not individuals or institutions.

@SipahSalar @TankMan @Horus @Slav Defence @MastanKhan @WebMaster , @Bratva : guys, read above. This is why I was commenting that vs. thread on RS's visit to KSA. The above is as real as a live human can be. This entire media campaign has over $ 500 million funding to be spread across countries to create a serious break between Pakistan''s Civil and Military relationship. Please educate others so you know what's coming. Don't tell me I didn't warn you!!!

That article speaks the truth, in Pakistan, the military calls all the shots, it's an open secret.

and is Pakistan really that fragile ? I mean it is a fragile state as noted in the index:

but you're genuinely concerned that print and social media commentary can actually cause a full breakdown of the state machinery and throw it into a state of civil war ?

I think you're being a bit paranoid.

 

[Syed_Adeel]

or we can wait until army stop presenting itself as saviour of the country and so it knows best.

Granted army is doing good job at fighting domestic terrorism, but it was the army that created these terrorists under zia, then mush.

It was the politicians too who robbed the country when ever they got chance, they destroyed the institutions otherwise these terrorists would not have gained so much power.

 

[MilSpec]

great to see our resident chicken little is already screaming conspiracy here. Cool

 

[Viper0011.]

That article speaks the truth, in Pakistan, the military calls all the shots, it's an open secret.

and is Pakistan really that fragile ? I mean it is a fragile state as noted in the index:

but you're genuinely concerned that print and social media commentary can actually cause a full breakdown of the state machinery and throw it into a state of civil war ?

I think you're being a bit paranoid.

1) What I wrote, wasn't a "mind extraction". In fact it was details I had gathered from a few good sources on stuff in New Delhi, and what was going on. I have friends from India, who have parents at current and ex-general level. So I know what's up. So I shared. I'll stop at that.

2) Pakistan isn't that fragile right now. But a massive campaign that has a phase II and III (which my source didn't disclose), cold break a country if enough chaos has already been created and there is an internal civil war going on, with major institutes gone or suffering. It'll be like Syria. If you turn Pakistan through this type of a mess............nothing is really left in a country, BUT just lines on a map, referring to GPS coordinates. The nation inside the boundaries is gone.

3) Majority of the wars have been executed based on some propaganda and media, WWII is an example. Hitler's gang did so much propaganda against Jews and the Europeans that a smart nation like the Germans, bough into what they were told. And for the past 80 years, they've been sorry for the mess they made!!

So yes, in today's warfare, the first thing you do, is to run so much media that you brain wash people, create opinions and divide opinions if need be. And then, take the next steps and do the final deed !!

Last, India failed in sabotaging progress in the CPEC project. The PM and other leaders are VERY pissed at Mr. Doval, etc. This new campaign, they MUST succeed in as I've heard. And I can understand that using common sense too!

 

[mourning sage]

or we can wait until army stop presenting itself as saviour of the country and so it knows best.

Granted army is doing good job at fighting domestic terrorism, but it was the army that created these terrorists under zia, then mush.

If i were to blame these military govt, it wouldn't be on the creation of these terrorists. When created, they werent terrorists. Where the military is to be blamed is that it failed to uncover Indian designs and became so complacent that it totally ignored the possibility of RAW exploiting rogue elements amongst the ranks of these freedom fighters. Had musharaff not been an idiot and power worshipper, indians would have gotten a good whooping.

 

[Albatross]

US can deal directly with the real Sharif...India does have that luxury of dealing with the real Sharif....Hence India and Pak relation are one step forward and five step backward. Ufa is a good example.

Until Pakistan Army is the real ruler of Pakistan, the state of Indo-Pak relations would not change.

Just a small correction.

Until kashmir dispute is resolved and kashmiries gets right to self determination as per UN resolutions the state of Indo-Pak relations would not change .

PA will ensure India is always pressurized into solving this dispute and hence Indian baseless Atoot ang rhetoric and aggression in Kashmir is the main hurdle between our relations not PA.

 

[Pakistanisage]

After Nawaz visit, Pak’s ‘real’ Sharif heads to US - Times of India


After Nawaz visit, Pak’s ‘real’ Sharif heads to US
Chidanand Rajghatta| TNN | Nov 9, 2015, 03.03 AM IST
HIGHLIGHTS
• Pakistan army chief General Raheel Sharif will be visiting US next week where he will discuss security issues.

• He will hold meetings with the political and military leadership of the US on different issues.

• He will also brief the US officials about efforts being made for peace in Afghanistan.

Pakistan army chief General Raheel Sharif. (File photo)
WASHINGTON: Washington DC is not a very big city by world capital standards, but evidently this town ain't big enough for two Sharifs from Pakistan to visit at the same time. Three weeks after the country's enfeebled PM Nawaz Sharif visited the White House to meet President Obama, the nation's army chief General Raheel Sharif will arrive here on a trip where real business is expected to be conducted.

General Sharif will not be meeting President Obama, but there is little doubt that Washington regards him as the "real Sharif" and the "big Sharif", with whom it can do business, although it is not clear if he is seen as the better or worse of the two Sharifs.

READ ALSO:Nawaz Sharif made to listen more than talk when he met Obama — Daily

The US seldom sees an uniformed general it does not like, and the broad view in Washington is that Gen Raheel Sharif is still in his honeymoon phase with the US, where credulous spinmeisters weave yarns about the country's progressive and professional generals who will deliver results prescribed by America, the same way expectations were set up for Sharif's predecessors Kayani and Musharraf, before they were condemned.

The Pakistani military itself has made no secret of the fact that it is the real power in the country. It (the military) made the announcement about General Sharif's visit, with the army PR, three-star Lt Gen Asim Bajwa, tweeting that "#COAS will visit USA from 15-20 Nov. Will hold mtngs with mil and political leadership on wide ranging security issues."

The sheer chutzpah of an army shill announcing that the general will be holding meetings with the political leadership of a country he is visiting would be surprising anywhere except in the case of Pakistan where the khakhis have long called the shots behind a civilian facade.

The current military dispensation has been even more ruthless in asserting its primacy. Just days before PM Nawaz Sharif embarked on his visit to US last month, his NSA Sartaj Aziz was summarily relieved of his post and replaced with a retired three-star general, Naseer Khan Janjua. Janjua effectively became the civilian government's minder to ensure it did not cave into US pressure during the Washington visit.


READ ALSO:Pakistani PM Nawaz Sharif heckled during speech in Washington

Such military oversight and control is now quite common across world capitals with Pakistan's khaki-designated minders even reporting to Rawalpindi's military intelligence establishment on the various ambassadors appointed by the civilian government, according to sources familiar with the workings of Pakistani embassies abroad. In fact, several key ambassadorships are held by retired military generals in an open display of who really calls the shots in a country that is only notionally a democracy. None of this has prevented any of the US administrations to continue the tedious facade of dealing with the powerless civilian governments.
TopComment
Pakistan is a regional beggar. Dey beg frm enemies as well no shame respect dignity. Dez words r so alien to them. Beggi...Read MoreAbhi KsP
READ ALSO:Pakistan commits to act against LeT, Hafiz Saeed

Over the weekend, the New York Times essayed yet another tired editorial on Pakistan's runaway nuclear programme, nothing that while the country cannot provide adequate services for its citizens because it spends about 25% of its budget on defence, the army says it needs still more nuclear weapons to counter India's conventional arsenal.

But there is no sign from Washington that it has any ideas or plans to change this during its engagement with the real power in Pakistan.

 

[ito]

Just a small correction.

Until kashmir dispute is resolved and kashmiries gets right to self determination as per UN resolutions the state of Indo-Pak relations would not change .

PA will ensure India is always pressurized into solving this dispute and hence Indian baseless Atoot ang rhetoric and aggression in Kashmir is the main hurdle between our relations not PA.

But why would India want to engage Pakistan on Kashmir. India wants Pakistan to remain hostage to Kashmir so that Pakistan remain underdeveloped and a hub for terrorists.