Afghans can’t forget Pakistani support during Jihad: Prof Rabbani

[ای ایران]

Prof Burhanudin Rabbani was the overall political leader of the so called Northern Alliance, the same alliance which Pakistan supported their opponents(arming them) including the Taliban and Gulbudin Hekmatyar, i wonder why he has some change of tone with regards to pakistan now.

If true then its opportunism but also you never take literally what politicians say when it comes to things like this. You need to take a nuanced approach to understand diplomatic speech and also to know and place things in their context. This is where much of the media, in particular the media from certain countries, often fails its reader-ship to report news correctly. They do this either by miss-quoting, misinterpreting or not understanding things in their context - leading sometimes to unintended controversies (perhaps even deliberate ones) caused by the media.

Also i seem to remember reading a joke/spoof somewhere about the Pakistani media's reporting on issues relating to diplomacy. There is a trend in Pakistani newspapers, when reporting on diplomats/notables from countries like Afghanistan, Iran, Turkey and some others in the Middle East, to attribute to them something along the lines of "X said that [X] and Pakistan share deep-rooted bonds of history, culture........ etc" - You can look-up any news report from a Pakistani newspaper going back several years and you will always see that same sentence attributed to an Iranian, Afghan, Turkish etc dignitary to Pakistan by the Pakistani media. The joke/rib is tho that Iranians, Afghans etc do not feel this way towards Pakistanis and neither do they make such remarks in their press conferences. These remarks are virtually always a fabrication of the Pakistani media when reporting on such issues. It is actually only ever the Pakistani dignataries to countries like Iran, Turkey, Afghanistan etc who occasionally, make such remarks. But the statements are generally not reciprocated unless it would be undiplomatic and rude not to under certain circumstances.

I cant remember where i read the spoof but it was really funny. I'll try and find it and post it here. Some of the Pakistanis who feel embarrassed by their media when it comes to this issue might like reading over the spoof on their papers' falsely attributed nonsense like this:

Talking to APP, Prof Rabbani said both the countries have historical relations and shared deep-rooted bonds of history, culture, geography, customs, languages, literature and faith.

Yeah sure... As if a Tajik is going to feel that way towards a very different race and culture like Pakistan..

 

[kidwaibhai]

Now that is bull crap when it comes to turkey when their prime minister came to Pakistan he said that Pakistan and Turkey are like brothers. The Afghan president said that Pakistan and Afghanistan are like twin (so there is another one). I was watching an interview of your ambassador to pakistan a while ago, he was giving it in urdu by the way which i liked he said the whole brotherly thing also.

Now if you dont feel that way its all good but please dont make stuff up like this.

 

[PakistaniPacifist]

We supported the people who were being killed by the Taliban. Pakistan doesn't know what its interests are, it doesn't think ahead for more than a few months. The same people you were helping are now blowing up buildings in Pakistan.

Totally agree with that statement and what’s happening in Pakistan is a testament to that.

You have no idea what you're talking about. We let millions of them in during the imposed war when we are at war with the world, they weren't "caged outside of cities" and millions are still in Iran.

Having spoken to some Hazaras and from interacting with them most of them speak with a great deal of animosity towards the Iranian government and their people, not being able to be enrolled into School as well as racism from local Iranians due to their Chinese features and those that were educated were being denied job opportunities based on their ethnicity.

lol, it's sad how ignorant you are, it is truly sad how easily Saudis manipulated Pakistanis into believing this bullshit. I was going to say that Wahhabism ruined Pakistan.

Wahhabism has ruined and plagued our land. During Bhuttos reign our country had a constitution and where blessed with nuclear power, he was heavily responsible for forging strong bonds with our Chinese neighbours. Our people were once proud of our great land and many Pakistanis where enthuastic about our countries future even my own parents who were kids at the time would make a journey of 8 hours from villages in the far North of the country just to get a glimpse of him whenever he visited Jhelum. Everything changed when Gen Zia took charge ( a well known wahhabi fanatic) who turned the clocks back on our great land and it's down to his fanatical ideas and vision of Pakistan that were are still suffering even to this day.

but that would be false because there has never been anything to ruin, it's always been the way it is now and it's just getting worse.

Dude if you think our country is a barren wasteland and our people are suffering from an indentity crisis, why bother interact with us and share your thoughts on a Pakistani forum?!

By the way, why does Pakistan think they have a lot in common with Afghanistan? They call you Indian Muslims. You guys are the same people and it's pathetic how you try to distance yourself from Indians and try to pretend you have a lot in common with Persians and Arabs.

Go out much? Please refer to where someone in this thread has claimed to have something in common with Afghans? Don’t forget 30 million Pashtuns have a lot in common with their Afghan brothers on the other side of the border.

Just speak to a Pakistani (Non-Pashtun) in U.K and ask him about Afghanistan and their culture, i'm sure you’ll find the answer to your question. As ordinary Pakistanis we wish the best for our Afghan brothers and hope that the Afghans can have a prosperous and stable life.

Three out of five of Pakistan’s provinces share nothing with the Indians culturally, ethnically or linguistically. The other two provinces are Punjab that makes up around 50% of Pakistan and Sindh. Punjab on the Indian side makes up for 1% of their population. The only muslims on the Indian side we have anything in common with is our Kashmiri brothers.

Look your entitled to your opinion and what you believe but most Pakistani have their own identity and most will admit to the fact we are not similar to Iranian, Afghan or Indians.

Admittedly some Pakistanis do act and pretend to be like Arabs but they are just the wahhabified ones, whom are a disgrace to all Pakistanis. I’ve never come across a Pakistani who pretends to be Iranian, most are honestly clueless about Iran and Iranians although most non-wahhabi Pakistani's have a postivie view on them unlike our wahabbi counterparts. Even my own Iranian mates think we’re a bunch of racists and harbour prejudicial thoughts against Iranian.

Dude you’ve got a chip on your shoulder and seem as if someone has ruffled your feathers, I think its time you had a kit-kat.

 

[r3alist]

Dude you’ve got a chip on your shoulder and seem as if someone has ruffled your feathers, I think its time you had a kit-kat.

i think this guy is trying to come across as some sort or iranian supremacist and say that we pakistani's are basically the self loathing iranian wannabes - which is quite cute because almost every iranian in the west is trying to distance themselves from their iranian identity, so chill out huh, whats the beef?

 

[FireFighter]

We supported the people who were being killed by the Taliban. Pakistan doesn't know what its interests are, it doesn't think ahead for more than a few months.

Taliban were not aliens from outer space nor were they Arab Wahhabis, they are ordinary Sunni Tribal Afghans, so by saying that Iran supported other groups against them, you admitted that Iran supported Afghans fight and destroy other Afghans.

How would you like it if Afghanistan or any other country supports and arms the Iranian reformists against your Mullah regime and thousands of iranians are killed during the process?

if you leave out the theological aspect, What's the difference between Iranian Mullah Regime and the Taliban?

The same people you were helping are now blowing up buildings in Pakistan.

They're not the same people. You need to educate yourself first, I guess you to visit any TTP thread on the issue for beginners.

 

[r3alist]

as per the thread topic i agree, pakistan has done alot for afghanistan and we have no reason to feel guilty for the taliban.

there were plenty of actual afghans who supported the taliban and the west are morally more responsible for the taliban th.n anyone since they used afghanistan as their playground to defeat the russians yet offered nothing to reward or stabilise the nation.

pakistan were caught between a rock and a hard place - they are taking responsibility for what the afghans and the west neglected - we have become a scapegoat

 

[PakistaniPacifist]

true, but who cares about tajiks?

As a Pakistani i honestly care alot about our Afghan brothers and that includes Tajiks.

i think this guy is trying to come across as some sort or iranian supremacist and say that we pakistani's are basically the self loathing iranian wannabes - which is quite cute because almost every iranian in the west is trying to distance themselves from their iranian identity, so chill out huh, whats the beef?

Iranian are really nice people bro and don't let this guy make you think otherwise, most of my closest friends in the U.K are of Iranian origin, i have nothing but positive things to say about them. You seem annoyed and perplexed with his comments, allow it, its his perspective on things and he's entitled to what he believes.

 

[r3alist]

As a Pakistani i honestly care alot about our Afghan brothers and that includes Tajiks.



Iranian are really nice people bro and don't let this guy make you think otherwise, most of my closest friends in the U.K are of Iranian origin, i have nothing but positive things to say about them. You seem annoyed and perplexed with his comments, allow it, its his perspective on things and he's entitled to what he believes.

1. i dont consider tajiks to be "proper" afghans, thats just m view.

2. yes iranians are lovely people but there are some not so nice ones aswell, and this guy was coming across as a little snidey in regards to pakistani's, i am not generalisng i think.

 

[PakistaniPacifist]

1. i dont consider tajiks to be "proper" afghans, thats just m view.

2. yes iranians are lovely people but there are some not so nice ones aswell, and this guy was coming across as a little snidey in regards to pakistani's, i am not generalisng i think.

Judge people individually for who they are and sorry brother but Tajiks are as Afghans as Punjabi are Pakistanis.

People on the net are looking to cause e-fights as alot of them are looking to waste time out of boredom and judging by their location they wouldn't say it to a Pakistani in the England because lets face it, they wouldn't let them get away with it.

Lol sorry brother but nobody gives a rats @ss about iran a state tht thinks its on top of the world and can conquer any other nation with centuries old weapons and brags about indegenously produce no offence JUNK.
About turkey and afghanistan if ur blind deff or dum thts not our problem..
Leave our media look at ur press?
With B.S propoganda stating rigi was coming from pakistan etc which was falsified later by your very own govt. also thank pakistan for Balouchistan tht stupid ayub khan gifted to iran and also coz we arent digging oil from the sloppy region tht contains ur reserves.
Anyways i also remembered a joke i heard in german embassy ...about iranians dying to connect there ancestory to WHITE aryans....
You Dig?

Speak for yourself, i love Iran as a country and Iranians. I try my utmost best to follow whats happening in their country after Pakistan and the U.K. Seriously you aren't helping our image at all and hatred only causes more hatred, so you definitely are not helping us Pakistanis.

 

[ای ایران]

Now that is bull crap when it comes to turkey when their prime minister came to Pakistan he said that Pakistan and Turkey are like brothers. The Afghan president said that Pakistan and Afghanistan are like twin (so there is another one). I was watching an interview of your ambassador to pakistan a while ago, he was giving it in urdu by the way which i liked he said the whole brotherly thing also.

Now if you dont feel that way its all good but please dont make stuff up like this.

Hey,

I think you missed the point of my earlier post, or you just don’t understand it. You bringing up the example of Karzai making a statement about Afghanistan and Pakistan being “twins” is a good example of what i was saying earlier about the need to understand the nuances in diplomatic speech and to understand their context too. This is a good example because its quite obvious to anyone with some familiarity with the history and some of the political contention’s in that part of the World to understand what Karzai and other Afghan leaders really mean by such statements.

Basically what Karzai is saying is not something favourable towards Pakistan. It is a policy of the Afghan government not to recognize the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan because of Afghanistan having lost some of its territory to the British empire the past that later on was included in Pakistan rather than lapsing back under Afghan control when the British left India. So the nuance of what Afghan leaders are saying when they make statements like that is that Afghanistan and Pakistan are “attached” because of Pakistan’s control over former Afghan territory, which officially, the Afghan government has never given-up its claim to. You see the subtlety of diplomatic language? Im sure that Pakistani leaders know very well what the Afghans really mean when they make such statements. But your media fails to understand the context or nuance of the actual statement being made. That was one of my earlier points.

Secondly, as it relates to what you said about Erdogan i don’t know what that has to do with anything? Calling the government or leaders of another country a “brother” is very common diplomatic parlance, especially among Moslem nations. Now vague and non-descript gestures like referring to another nation as a “brother” is quite different from making a very explicit statement that so and so country “shares deep-bonds of…….. with us”. The two statements are very different from eachother. Maybe the Pakistani media tries to infer that when Turkish leaders etc call Pakistan a “brother” that they think this means that the Turks feel that the two countries are supposed to have some kind of “deep-rooted relations” (which they dont and everyone knows that – only some Pakistanis seem to want to be seen in this way by the Middle East) but thats not actually what Erdogan said, so don’t assume thats what he means when he calls Pakistan’s government a “brother” – There is no real meaning to that. Its called diplomatic etiquette/courtesy.

Hope this is clearer to you.

 

[ای ایران]

Lol sorry brother but nobody gives a rats @ss about iran a state tht thinks its on top of the world and can conquer any other nation with centuries old weapons and brags about indegenously produce no offence JUNK.
About turkey and afghanistan if ur blind deff or dum thts not our problem..
Leave our media look at ur press?
With B.S propoganda stating rigi was coming from pakistan etc which was falsified later by your very own govt. also thank pakistan for Balouchistan tht stupid ayub khan gifted to iran and also coz we arent digging oil from the sloppy region tht contains ur reserves.
Anyways i also remembered a joke i heard in german embassy ...about iranians dying to connect there ancestory to WHITE aryans....
You Dig?

First of all we’re not brothers and secondly i have no idea what you’re talking about or why you’re upset with me? Did i say something insulting or offensive to you? Anyway, the Iranian state-controlled media is obviously going to be a joke because, well, its state controlled – if that’s the point you were trying to make then yes, i have no disagreements with anyone that criticizes Iran’s state-controlled media because Iranian people hate it themselves more than anyone else could.

What the rest of the problem is i don’t know, or could care-less.

 

[paksarzameen]

lol, it's sad how ignorant you are, it is truly sad how easily Saudis manipulated Pakistanis into believing this bullshit. I was going to say that Wahhabism ruined Pakistan, but that would be false because there has never been anything to ruin, it's always been the way it is now and it's just getting worse.

Wahabism is to Saudia as much as Shiaism is to Iran. Sectrainism is wrong and BOTH iran and sauidia are equally guilty. you guys are not that incconect when it comes to stoking sectarian bullshit

 

[paksarzameen]

By the way, why does Pakistan think they have a lot in common with Afghanistan? They call you Indian Muslims. You guys are the same people and it's pathetic how you try to distance yourself from Indians and try to pretend you have a lot in common with Persians and Arabs.

Speaking of what Afghans call others then Afghans call you 'Seghazada' .. lol

 

[Omar1984]

Should i retort by asking why Pakistanis try to bleach their skin with phony-gimmicky "skin-lightening" products? Is that your peoples culture? To aspire to lighten their skin-tone? See where im getting at? You cant win against other nationalities with cheap-shots so dont even try.

Skin lightening products are sold the most in your brotherly country india.


By the way, I've seen plenty of brown iranians trying so hard to be white. Go to US and UK, Iranians even eat pork with Americans trying so hard to fit in with White Americans.

 

[Omar1984]

By the way, why does Pakistan think they have a lot in common with Afghanistan? They call you Indian Muslims. You guys are the same people and it's pathetic how you try to distance yourself from Indians and try to pretend you have a lot in common with Persians and Arabs.

Go to this thread:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/52503-sania-mirza-marry-shoaib-malik-170.html

See how happy Pakistanis are that an Indian Muslim woman is getting married to a Pakistani man.


However, you're right that we rather side with Muslims (doesn't matter what country they are from) than side with hindus.

A lot of Pakistanis care too much about the Ummah.