Afghanistan to sign its first strategic partnership agreement with India

[karan.1970]

forget Pakistan, I am addressing a question posed by vijayjha @ post 160

Which was that if Pakistan supported Taliban in Afg, why is it against Talibanization of Pakistan. The excuse you gave for the support in Afg is that in your view, there were no other viable alternatives. To which my question is , if there are those in Pakistan either. Basically, debating if the excuse for supporting Taliban in afg has any legs to stand on..

and buddy, Pakistan is not something one can forget.. Dont you agree ??

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Its a 'viable' alternative... we call it strategic depth.Controlling Afghanistan and there by pasthun nationalism.

call it what you like, friend.

what you call "controlling" Afghanistan we simply call protecting our arses. Have we had our hands 100% clean? Absolutely not. Have we had relations with an organization whose armed-wings have men inside of them who are some of the most vile and sadistic people on that side of Asia? Yes, we have. Similar to the Northern Alliance whom you and a handful of countries supported and still support --2 sides of the same coin really.

Pakistan would welcome an Afghanistan that was actually sovereign and respected the Durand line as an international border. Unfortunately, the Afghan leaders have demonstrated time and again that they fail on both counts and, willingly or otherwise, do 'certain countries' bidding in harming Pakistan.

The exact same arguments that America is applying to Pakistan can be applied to Afghanistan vis-a-vis Pakistan. As long as they continue harboring anti-Pakistan elements, and until they make peace with the Durand line, Pakistan will do the needful to make sure Afghanistan doesn't cause trouble.

Pakistan has the basis for an excellent peaceful relationship with Afghanistan, including large crossover of ethnic tribes, but it will not materialize as long as Afghanistan lets itself be used by 'certain powers' against Pakistan.

 

[KS]

Similar to the Northern Alliance whom you and a handful of countries supported and still support --2 sides of the same coin really.

Not exactly.

The NA were much much more liberal towards the citizens in the areas they controlled than the Taliban were in the areas controlled by them.

Infact among the NA and Taliban , there is not a shred of doubt who are the lesser of the two evil - NA.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Which was that if Pakistan supported Taliban in Afg, why is it against Talibanization of Pakistan. The excuse you gave for the support in Afg is that in your view, there were no other viable alternatives. To which my question is , if there are those in Pakistan either. Basically, debating if the excuse for supporting Taliban in afg has any legs to stand on..

and buddy, Pakistan is not something one can forget.. Dont you agree ??

Pakistan has its problems, but it has institutions that actually function --sometimes dysfunctionally perhaps -- but there is at least a semblance of 'state' in Pakistan. Have a longer memory than 3-4 years.

to compare the political or economic situation of Pakistan to Afghanistan is preposterous so i wont even delve into that. Pakistan may be run by undisciplined civilian leadership, but it isn't run by warlords.

and besides -- we haven't really had that many alternatives.....when it isn't the Khakis -- then it is Bhuttos or Sharifs.....or nowdays, "Zardari-Bhuttos"!


they say democracy in young nations is messy; we can attest to that.

---------- Post added at 07:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 AM ----------

Not exactly.

The NA were much much more liberal towards the citizens in the areas they controlled than the Taliban were in the areas controlled by them.

not so 'liberal' with those who were opposed to them and/or didn't pay their 'protection money'

Infact among the NA and Taliban , there is not a shred of doubt who are the lesser of the two evil - NA.

there is not a shred of a doubt that they are two sides of the same coin.......as of late, actually, factions even within NA are directly and indirectly arming the taleban.


(true story, by the way)

 

[LaBong]

Afghan simply can't go beyond the tribe mentality, if they had a strong national sense like indian or pakistanis, they wouldn't let every other guy in the region to mess with their country.

 

[KS]

not so 'liberal' with those who were opposed to them and/or didn't pay their 'protection money'

Thats a no brainer dude. They were warlords after all, not saints.

But there is no dispute on the fact that the NA were far more liberal when it came to women rights, education, music etc.

there is not a shred of a doubt that they are two sides of the same coin.......as of late, actually, factions even within NA are directly and indirectly arming the taleban.


(true story, by the way)

I dont think so. As I said the NA were far more liberal an accomodative towards the people in the areas they ruled than the Taliban.

The women were allowed to work, education to girl children was not forbidden, women need not cover themselves up in tents, the men need not grow beards and were free to chose, music,movies were not 'haram',minorities were not expressly prosecuted etc...

In short they were not as barbaric/medieval minded as the Talibunnies.

 

[Mech]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/world-affairs/132999-india-train-afghan-forces.html#post2163942

 

[shuntmaster]

I didnt say YOU as a person, you are clever than that to understadn what i mean. Secondly, you talk about the 75% which is not true, they have the capibilty to make explosions, that is not called cotnrol, your taliban have also in the past and near past have done devastated attacks, but it doestnt mean they are controlling the area.

Yep, its like saying there are pick-pocket thieves all over Pakistan and they can carry on their activities as and when they please, doesn't mean Pakistan is being controlled by Pick-pockets.

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan has its problems, but it has institutions that actually function --sometimes dysfunctionally perhaps -- but there is at least a semblance of 'state' in Pakistan. Have a longer memory than 3-4 years.

to compare the political or economic situation of Pakistan to Afghanistan is preposterous so i wont even delve into that. Pakistan may be run by undisciplined civilian leadership, but it isn't run by warlords.

and besides -- we haven't really had that many alternatives.....when it isn't the Khakis -- then it is Bhuttos or Sharifs.....or nowdays, "Zardari-Bhuttos"!


they say democracy in young nations is messy; we can attest to that.

Really cant disagree there... Hope the region grows a little old fast

 

[DV RULES]

Political setup of Afghanistan has to be change now to reverse this kind of agreement.
Enough praising to India by Karzai government.

 

[Night_Raven]

Afghans working with idol worshippers. gross

Lol , look who's talking : one whose country's sovereignty has been sold off to the "Christian Crusaders" .. in the past as well as present .... making it no more than a mercenary nation

@ Topic : Very positive development ! Hope to see more Indian inputs in the economic revival of Afghanistan ....

 

[Rafi]

Pakistan has legitimate national security concerns in A-Stan, if they are not addressed, we will have to get involved, unfortunately.

 

[karan.1970]

Pakistan has legitimate national security concerns in A-Stan, if they are not addressed, we will have to get involved, unfortunately.

Well, USA has legitimate security concerns in Pakistan. If USA starts destabilizing Pakistan openly and starts dictating who Pakistan can have alliances with, will it be palatable to Pakistan..?? Dont you think the same respect should be accorded to Afg that Pakistan expects for itself?

 

[Vinod2070]

Well, USA has legitimate security concerns in Pakistan. If USA starts destabilizing Pakistan openly and starts dictating who Pakistan can have alliances with, will it be palatable to Pakistan..?? Dont you think the same respect should be accorded to Afg that Pakistan expects for itself?

Same thing goes about Chinese influence in our backyard.