Afghan Taliban capture Pakistani soldiers in cross border attack

[Jigs]

You are correct, indeed Islam does call for strict limits to be observed during war but the problem is that these people are using religion as a vehicle and unfortunately as long as there are illiterate Muslims, they(Terrorists) will always have a steady supply of recruits.

That is why religion has everything to do with it.

 

[Icarus]

That is why religion has everything to do with it.

My point exactly.

 

[seekers]

That is why religion has everything to do with it.

??? what has terrorist exploit from religion????

that's not religion flaw, thats unawareness of believers.

 

[sab]

The only solution I see to that problem is to get the madressas under the observation of the GOV, and to have strict regulations in place. And above all to teach people about the true Islam. And above all to put a tap on the $ molvis who only believe in the religion of money and nothing else.

ALL madrasa should be under government control and government must try to make the level of education at per with the prominent mainstream schools in the country by revising the curriculam. Teachers should be selected through a government board (say Madrasa Service Commission) on the basis of examination and personality test. Education up tp certain level sshould be government sponsored and every family should be liable for punishment for not sending their kids to school or Madrasa. No Madrasa should be allowed to be established without permission and guidance from government. All these not only reduce the control of the Moulavis in the society but revolutionalize education in Pakistan.

 

[Jigs]

??? what has terrorist exploit from religion????

that's not religion flaw, thats unawareness of believers.

Don't you think it is difficult enough trying to make these guys understand what is right about their religion and what is wrong. Especially if someone gets to them before you do. It would be like trying to convert someone after they fed them all the terror BS and manipulation. I mean if someone is willing to kill themselves and inflict damage on the other Muslims i don't think you can talk him out of it by saying his whole ideology is wrong. Also the whole uneducated argument while it does hold some truth there have also been some very educated people that are diehard believers.

Religion isn't flawed but the system is. When religion is integrated so much into politics and state to where logic holds less and less value this will occur. Right now the ME has very little logic. Religious extremism is a root cause of these problems. When people in these areas hold so hard to the beliefs and try to live that way they became easy to manipulate because lets face it religion and logic have never worked hand and hand. That and the many who try to force their religious interpretation on to others by force and fear. Fear is the easiest way to control humans.

 

[Old School]

It's not that simple brother, we are the country with more mosques than any other, we can not observe the activities of ALL moulvis and their followers. I think the best possible solution would be to ban religious parties from taking part in politics, since they support the Taliban cause, the Basta***.
It will deal a major blow to the pro-Taliban lobby.

We shall have to hit at 'the fortress' at some stage today or tomorrow. European had to do it eventually in the 17th century. The most important blow to these fanatics is to deny them state sponsorship which they have been getting since 1976. Turkish model will not work as it appears now. We need to make the breeding process very difficult so that the breeding of these brainwashed species remain at minimum level. Once state sponsorship is fully withdrawn , the rest will be taken care of by natural evolution process which by then will get acceleration and momentum.

 

[Icarus]

We shall have to hit at 'the fortress' at some stage today or tomorrow. European had to do it eventually in the 17th century. The most important blow to these fanatics is to deny them state sponsorship which they have been getting since 1976. Turkish model will not work as it appears now. We need to make the breeding process very difficult so that the breeding of these brainwashed species remain at minimum level. Once state sponsorship is fully withdrawn , the rest will be taken care of by natural evolution process which by then will get acceleration and momentum.

State sponsorship from whom ? Could you please expand on that ?

 

[Old School]

State sponsorship from whom ? Could you please expand on that ?

Without going into explicit details due to obvious reason , here state refers to Government. Being myself an witness, I have seen how the whole phenomenon gradually evolved from just zero.

 

[Icarus]

Without going into explicit details due to obvious reason , here state refers to Government. Being myself an witness, I have seen how the whole phenomenon gradually evolved from just zero.

The militants have no state sponsorship what so ever, they did in the 80s and even up till 96, but they have absolutely no support now from the Govt or any Pakistani institution for that matter.

 

[Old School]

The militants have no state sponsorship what so ever, they did in the 80s and even up till 96, but they have absolutely no support now from the Govt or any Pakistani institution for that matter.

But religious institutions have state sponsorship which eventually produces militants.

 

[Icarus]

But religious institutions have state sponsorship which eventually produces militants.

Not really, most of these terrorists are illiterates who scarcely know anything about anything, just to give an example Muslim Khan was a painter, Moulvi Umar used to sell "Ittar" outside a mosque and Mangal Bagh from Khyber Agency's Lashkar-e-Islam used to be a body guard fro a tribal leader.
But still Religious institutions are now being registered and their courses being checked, soon, a uniform course for all madrassahs will be chalked out and that will effectively put an end to madrassahs producing terrorists.

 

[Old School]

Not really, most of these terrorists are illiterates who scarcely know anything about anything, just to give an example Muslim Khan was a painter, Moulvi Umar used to sell "Ittar" outside a mosque and Mangal Bagh from Khyber Agency's Lashkar-e-Islam used to be a body guard fro a tribal leader.
But still Religious institutions are now being registered and their courses being checked, soon, a uniform course for all madrassahs will be chalked out and that will effectively put an end to madrassahs producing terrorists.

Good intention , no doubt. Let us hope for the best.

 

[Fracker]

Not really, most of these terrorists are illiterates who scarcely know anything about anything, just to give an example Muslim Khan was a painter, Moulvi Umar used to sell "Ittar" outside a mosque and Mangal Bagh from Khyber Agency's Lashkar-e-Islam used to be a body guard fro a tribal leader.
But still Religious institutions are now being registered and their courses being checked, soon, a uniform course for all madrassahs will be chalked out and that will effectively put an end to madrassahs producing terrorists.

Once you said, mostly terrorist are illiterate, and then you say Madrassahs are producing terrorist. What a contradiction..

Madrassahs are labeled for producing the terrorists this isn't the case! not for today neither it was yesterday. When CIA choose this belt as a platform to launch attacks on Soviets, they created milita training camps around (not madrassahs), which used to train mujahideens and then sent to Afghanistan, in the name of Jihad.

now today, all the known training camps are finished, but only secret training camps are alive. which gets funding to higher poor/jobless/illiterate tribs man for this purpose. Then why Madrassahs are blamed?


because our LORDS (Western countries) propagate soo...

 

[Bratva]

ISI Chief Confirmed The Involvement of Afghan Army In Helping Terrorists

SLAMABAD: ISI chief Lt Gen Ahmed Shuja Pasha has told US Special Representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan Richard Holbrooke that terrorists are entering the Pakistani territory easily after the abolishment of Nato checkposts at Pak-Afghan border.

According to sources, the ISI chief in his meeting with the US envoy said Pakistan had eliminated terrorists from its tribal areas, and several terrorists either were killed or arrested, while some fled into Afghanistan.

Lt Gen Pasha said the Nato removed checkposts at the border from its side and allowed armed men to enter Pakistan. He said terrorists were again entering Pakistan with the help of Afghan Taliban and the Afghan National Army, which is not acceptable to Pakistan at any cost as they are creating instability again in Bajaur and Khyber Agency. The ISI chief said the Nato should not consider Pakistan’s cooperation as its weakness.According to sources, some evidences have also been handed over to Richard Holbrooke.

The US special envoy assured that Pakistan concerns and reservations would be reviewed and talks would be held with Afghan officials in this regard.

Source: The News

 

[Bratva]

I am sorry if I sounded like one you allege me to be.
without any further offence I can proudly say that I have the honour and pride to wear the Pakistan Army uniform and have faced the situations when the guns have been pointed at me and have fired at enemy and been part of the Sindh regiment deployed in Bhimber sector in our Pakistani Azad Kashmir . I am no longer in the army but I say to everyone if I was I would have been killed by now because I am mad about my country. Surrender is definitely no option. You have to live it to understand it what I am saying the thrill the excitement and the clam you feel while defending your country cant be beaten by anything I promise you.
We dug our temporary graves in case we fall and I used to eye it every time I went past it. So my dearest I am not a keyboard warrior far from it.

yes I have family as well. that for over generations has served the country. brothers father, cousins, grandfather great grand father and uncles have been in both the British and Pakistani army and are sill serving

one is deployed in Balochistan facing off the Indian Funded BLA terrorists as I write this response

yes I am emotional because there have been many other situations where the soldiers have refused to accept the odds and turned them in their favour I will just cite (ref Kargil war) Capt Colonel Shair Khan and Lans Corporal Lalik Jan who surrounded a whole Indian company and gave them a tough time and Indians them selves recommended for their highest recognition

My father was 2nd Lt. in 1971 and fought in Tochi, Tul Scouts in the same kargil area at freezing conditions against all odds and he mentions how at one post 2 soldiers simply took on a whole Indian company that was advancing at their position and killed soldiers that included their officers too. He says they held that post and was marked as ours after ceasefire and flag staff meetings.

I have seen videos on youtube by the Taliban where they show whole companies of Pakistan army surrendering and being strip searched and giving up their weapons and then being lined up while Taliban smirk and wave their guns to the cameras.

You might also recall that disgusting and shameful incident where the Taliban tricked a Pakistani convoy with a land slide and were disguised in burka they forced the officers to submission. it is not just me who was upset but GHQ high command was furious and said that those officers will be court marshalled for not following the SOPs in a hostile environment the more I hear about that incident it irritates me that those tribesmen tricked them by offering food etc and then pointed guns at them and the whole convoy surrendered without firing a single bullet

there are other disgusting stories where the soldiers after surrendering gave away the shias or syed among them to Taliban who then executed them on spot. I am sure same fate would have happened it there was an Ahmedi there

this discussion can go on but the point is we are the same sons of soils where our forefathers faced off the biggest armada of tanks after WW2.



army rules are very strict and ruthless when it comes to punishment to any one serving in army during war time when there is slight indication of cowardice he is normally shot on site to deter from following suit.

Please read my earlier comments with keeping this in mind that in this fight the enemy has no face, no moral, no faith it’s a beast from hell without any remorse or shame and has to be treated like a beast.

Take no prisoners and surrender never an option

Mr.Irfan,,, Even The Allah Has allowed a Strategic Fall back,,, In Surah Infaal,,, Where Allah has told the believers how to distribute War booty among themselves,,, He also told that Depending upon the war situation,,, You can Fall Back,,, But Fall back should not be confused with Surrender,,, As in the same verse,,, Surrender is strongly rejected and Allah said that who ever surrender in the Hands Of Kuffar,,, will be Punished severely