Afghan Taliban capture Pakistani soldiers in cross border attack

[Irfan Baloch]

This thread is slowly becoming a den of loosely knitted speculations and conspiracy theories. Please can we just talk reality for a moment.

thats what is lacking
if we talk as a matter of fact then it will be like

there were some combat losses
50 or more soldiers went missing
some ended up in Afghanistan

the thread will end right here but due to lack of information one has to think of posibilities
there is no Zionist or blackwater conspiracy theorycrafting here so please notice the difference.
based on previous incidents & knowledge of this war we are talking possibilites
Latest News

it appears that TTP is holding 33 troops as captives and is offering a swap

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...r-prisoner-swap-threaten-to-kill-troops-ss-03

PESHAWAR: Taliban militants in Pakistan's northwest Tuesday offered the government a prisoner swap in return for 33 missing soldiers, threatening to kill the men if the proposal is rebuffed.

A Taliban spokesman told AFP that Pakistani authorities should “face the consequences” if they did not agree to the swap, calling for the details to be worked out in talks with tribal elders in Mohmand tribal district.

 

[Old School]

C2
Sources
Finally about their planning & executing I can only come with two explanations
1. they have active & full scale Indian support
2. They have retried officers from army/ ISI (when it was purged of the radicals)

Projecting the first possibility in the media in fact assists the second one very well. We must not let ourselves blindfolded by the very weapon that we mastered using against our enemies. We need to see the events through the eyes and mind of a G2 . The purging of radicals were very selective. We could not get rid of the most. They are still on.
They have the money , manpower and real-time intelligence from Rawalpindi. That is happy days for TTP now.

 

[RescueRanger]

thats what is lacking
if we talk as a matter of fact then it will be like

there were some combat losses
50 or more soldiers went missing
some ended up in Afghanistan

the thread will end right here but due to lack of information one has to think of posibilities
there is no Zionist or blackwater conspiracy theorycrafting here so please notice the difference.
based on previous incidents & knowledge of this war we are talking possibilites
Latest News

it appears that TTP is holding 33 troops as captives and is offering a swap

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Taliban offer prisoner swap, threaten to kill troops

Fair enough, and btw the conspiracy comment was not meant at your post so no need to be so defensive.

 

[Icarus]

too many questions

I will answer as many as possible, I hope you are talking about the episode where a colonel surrendered with 90 of his full armed men, because that is what I am answering.

were the lost soldiers on fighting patrol and lost the way?

There were 90 men and they were with their commandant, They were just patrolling a Talib controlled area, hoping to set up some pickets, the operations had not started yet so they did not have the authorization to engage the Taliban, however, they were allowed to act in self defence.

when was their last radio communication?

They were in constant contact with their HQ, I believe.

were they abducted from the post?

No Sir, they were intercepted on their way.

Did the HQ react or not?

The men surrendered on their Commandant's command, they were stripped of their weapons and wireless sets, there wasn't any attempt at contacting HQ.

were they relieving the people at the post and got ambushed on their way?

No sir, they were just there to establish a couple of new pickets.

Were they on foot or there were vehicles involved?

They were travelling on 4x4 vehicles and trucks Sir.

were they perusing Taliban & fell into an ambush?

No Sir, they were on their way, were stopped by Taliban who warned them to return to their HQ but he convoy chose to move ahead but soon found themselves to be surrounded by the Taliban.

What happened to the post itself, who controls it?

Never established.

the whole episode is very sketchy with a lot of ambiguity.

It was a case of simple cowardice sir, where the commandant chose to put his life before his pride and surrendered without so much as a second thought, but then again, if he had ordered his troops to fire, it would have erupted into a bloodbath for the soldiers. Depends on how you look at it.
There were 90 men and ten officers in that convoy, the most senior officer was a colonel, they were surrounded by anywhere between 500 to 1000 Taliban, who are said to have already protocols on how to intercept military convoy.

This is what the Colonel had to say about his capture:
Pro-Taliban tribesmen had stopped his convoy while he was taking supplies to remote army camps. He said his superior officers instructed him to wait while they negotiated with the militant leadership. This took more than four hours. By then the soldiers realized they were surrounded and it was too late to resist.

 

[Old School]

There were 90 men and ten officers in that convoy, the most senior officer was a colonel, they were surrounded by anywhere between 500 to 1000 Taliban, who are said to have already protocols on how to intercept military convoy.

We are talking about roughly a Bn of Taliban. The axis is too long to go unnoticed prior to the ambush specially in an operational zone. This fact makes me worried.

 

[Icarus]

We are talking about roughly a Bn of Taliban. The axis is too long to go unnoticed prior to the ambush specially in an operational zone. This fact makes me worried.

This incident occurred in 2007, there was no operation in Waziristan at the time and it was Talib paradise over there.

 

[Old School]

This incident occurred in 2007, there was no operation in Waziristan at the time and it was Talib paradise over there.

TTP was officially banned in 2008 followed by US pressure. Gov did their best to remain nice guy with them. Had the US not pressured , we would have seen Talib paradise well inside Lahore.

 

[Icarus]

TTP was officially banned in 2008 followed by US pressure. Gov did their best to remain nice guy with them. Had the US not pressured , we would have seen Talib paradise well inside Lahore.

Not really, the only reason the Taliban flourished in FATA can be attributed to two reasons.
1) They were provided protection by the MMA govt.
2) They came and claimed that they should be given shelter in keeping with tradition highlighted in Pukhtunwali. The people had no right but to respect the age old custom of Pakhtunwali and provide asylum to the Taliban, who later turned on the very people who allowed them to stay in their homes.

 

[M8R]

MMA is largely responsible for uprising of TTP.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I will answer as many as possible, I hope you are talking about the episode where a colonel surrendered with 90 of his full armed men, because that is what I am answering.



There were 90 men and they were with their commandant, They were just patrolling a Talib controlled area, hoping to set up some pickets, the operations had not started yet so they did not have the authorization to engage the Taliban, however, they were allowed to act in self defence.

I need to apologise and clarify

my question is related to this current event to which this thread relates to. I referred to the one you explained just as a bases for my argument that there was a possibility of replay with the current event.

regarding 90 soldiers+ colonel

I am told that the chief was furious for not following the SOPs and so cheaply falling pray to the Taliban. This one and a similar incident was what made me think that maybe this current event had the same background.

Afghan Taliban, Soldiers in Afghanistan
All the questions were related to this event that how this one happened. I hope the returning soldiers from Kabul will be able to shed the light.

Regarding the exchange of prisoners TTP is suggesting is a very dangerous gambit and they will surely ask for our prize catches like Muslim Khan etc.

I wish our captive soldiers Allah’s protection & steadfast and confident leadership to our Military leadership to resolve this issue.

The best outcome will be a tip off and a raid at the place where they are being kept, freeing the prisoners and capturing or killing the terrorists but sadly the past and current events are not that rosy for us.

 

[Icarus]

I need to apologise and clarify

My mistake Sir.

my question is related to this current event to which this thread relates to. I referred to the one you explained just as a bases for my argument that there was a possibility of replay with the current event.

Regarding this incident Sir, the men were on a border picket, there was a two prong attack and the men were attacked from both the side facing Afghanistan and the side facing Pakistan, the men reported that the Taliban were in numbers over 500, the men continued to fiercely defend the position until they were short on ammo, HQ advised the men to abandon the post and that it could be reclaimed later, it seems the enemy had anticipated this move and managed to cut off and abduct many of the men who were retreating from their position, rumour has it that 10 were handed over to the Pakistani consulate at Jalalabad, however 6 men were tortured and killed by the terrorists, their bodies were returned to the authorities through the Peace Jirga and the authorities were told to expect a similar fate for the rest of the men, may Allah keep them safe.

Afghan Taliban, Soldiers in Afghanistan
All the questions were related to this event that how this one happened. I hope the returning soldiers from Kabul will be able to shed the light.

Indeed, Sir.

Regarding the exchange of prisoners TTP is suggesting is a very dangerous gambit and they will surely ask for our prize catches like Muslim Khan etc.

They have a habit of overdoing it I believe they will easily be asking for over 300 men.

I wish our captive soldiers Allah’s protection & steadfast and confident leadership to our Military leadership to resolve this issue.

Ameen

The best outcome will be a tip off and a raid at the place where they are being kept, freeing the prisoners and capturing or killing the terrorists but sadly the past and current events are not that rosy for us.

A tip off is difficult to come by since these guys rule their subjects with an ironfist, no matter how patriotic, everyone fears for the safety of his family thus tip offs are hard to come by, one possible way of doing it is possibly using the stick and carrot method, establish contact with the Taliban, make them an offer they can't resist, say that "We will give you Mullah Baradar for our boys" and when they are coming for the trade they may be ambushed, but such a method may result in serious casualties on our side as well, therefore it has to be reserved for a last resort, say if they threaten to kill all/most of their prisoners.
When the Taliban in Bajaur were defeated, they were made to hand over all prisoners.