Afghan president dismisses Pakistani training offer

[All-Green]

There are both male and female Afghan cadets in the Indian military academy and the Officer's training academy in India...
does that mean that we are training a part of the Afghan army or is it just a goodwill gesture?
as I know from a lot of people that..the Afghans are given a easy time there relative to the other Indian cadets...no one cares if the Afghans don't report...their training is softened a lot...
what is the logic?

It is certainly a step to bridge the gap and ensure future cooperation. However if the criteria is too relaxed, in my mind its not a good thing...will lead to a poor standard and it will be blamed on the Indian training!

The logic is to pass on some rudimentary knowledge and enhance skills without failing the subject, it is done on the basis that at least he/she is better now than what he/she was without the training, however this is a more political step than what military logic dictates...practically this is not a game and is indeed a matter of life and death of thousands...
A military officer who is deficient in the fundamentals can cause a disaster in future...

The Afghan army needs to be super tough but they are really nowhere on the radar right now.
I have read about their performance in the recent operations and they are still far from being a well oiled machine...its a long haul at best.

 

[Ahmad]

That is not true. Pashtuns are now the 2nd largest ethnic group in Pakistan. Pashtuns are the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan. Both the Pashtuns in Pakistan and Afghanistan have the same religion, culture, language, etc...Punjabis are the largest ethnic group in Pakistan, almost all are Muslims. Punjabis only make 3% of india's population, almost all are Sikhs and Hindus in india. And even within the Punjabi ethnic group we have clans like Syeds, Gilanis, Qureshis, Moghals, Maliks, Sheikhs, Iqbals, Mirzas, Khans who have nothing in common with indian punjabis. Well, almost all Pakistanis dont want to be associated with indians.

Brother Omar, Pakistan and Afghanistan are certainly neighbours and we have to have good relationships and brotherhood. Mistrust is not good for any of us. Yes, ethnically pakistan and afghanistan have pashtoons, but are the pashtoons the only ethic groups in afghanistan and pakistan? Are you gona exclule the vast maority of population of these 2 countries and other ethnicities from this formula? 85% of Pakistan is not pashtoon and around 60% of Afghanistan is not pashtoon, so how can you ignore the 2 big numbers here(60% and 85%), tell me what have a tajik or uzbek have got in common with the majority of pakistan which is panjabi(i think around 55%)? what have tajik, hazara or uzbek have got in common with sindhi or balouch?

 

[PakiPashtun]

^Pashtuns are well over half the population in Afghanistan. I think they are close to 70percent if the 5-6million Refugees(Majority Pashtun)Return back to Afghanistan.

I mean, I just looked it up and as of right NOW they form nearly half the population 40-50percent imagine when the 5-6million returns lol.

I think you misunderstood what he said. Pakistan is more careful with the Pashtuns of Afghanistan because they are the majority.

NO country dives for the minority, It rarely happens.

 

[Ahmad]

^Pashtuns are well over half the population in Afghanistan. I think they are close to 70percent if the 5-6million Refugees(Majority Pashtun)Return back to Afghanistan.

I mean, I just looked it up and as of right NOW they form nearly half the population 40-50percent imagine when the 5-6million returns lol.

I think you misunderstood what he said. Pakistan is more careful with the Pashtuns of Afghanistan because they are the majority.

NO country dives for the minority, It rarely happens.

Look i dont want to derail the talk here, but can you provide a cridble link to suggest pashtoons are over 50% or 70% as you mentioned? Even if the refugees from paksitan returns, they are not all pashtoons, there is huge number of tajiks as well. I understood him, if pakistan want to be successful in its policies, it need to engage with Afghans as a nation not to engage with ethnicities. Even if you are right and the pashtoons are 50%, what have the pashtoon of Afghanistan got in common with Panjabis, sindhis or balouch?

 

[PakiPashtun]

Look i dont want to derail the talk here, but can you provide a cridble link to suggest pashtoons are over 50% or 70% as you mentioned? Even if the refugees from paksitan returns, they are not all pashtoons, there is huge number of tajiks as well. I understood him, if pakistan want to be successful in its policies, it need to engage with Afghans as a nation not to engage with ethnicities. Even if you are right and the pashtoons are 50%, what have the pashtoon of Afghanistan got in common with Panjabis, sindhis or balouch?

CIA.GOV
Says there are 42-45 percent right NOW.

We all know the MAJORITY of refugees in Pakistan are Pashtun because there brothers from Pakistan embraced them into there lands.

There are an estimated 4-6million refugees in Pakistan. THE MAJORITY of that is Pashtun.

Probably less than a quarter million or half a million is Tajik.

The reason why it cant be Tajik respected brother is because Tajiks will look like Aliens in a N.W.F.P that is predominantly Pashtun and everyone speaks Pashto, Since it is Pashtun land, Pashtuns gladly walk in, speak the language,culture and share ancestory.

Does it make sense now?

I mean, even Kabul is like approximately 60percent Pashtun, Tajiks are welcomed in Pakistan too, but they would feel way to alien. Imagine speaking Dari in a place where you have nearly 30million Pashto speakers? No body would understand you, Even in Quetta, Hazaras and Punjabis are being target killed, let alone Tajik.

 

[Ahmad]

We all know the MAJORITY of refugees in Pakistan are Pashtun because there brothers from Pakistan embraced them into there lands.
There are an estimated 4-6million refugees in Pakistan. THE MAJORITY of that is Pashtun.

Probably less than a quarter million or half a million is Tajik.

OK, apart from PROBABLY, how can you say with evidence that there are 4-5 million refugees in Paksitan and only less than a quarter of them are tajiks? Any creible link for it? I used to live in peshawar for many years and i saw everything in opposite what you say.

The reason why it cant be Tajik respected brother is because Tajiks will look like Aliens in a N.W.F.P that is predominantly Pashtun and everyone speaks Pashto, Since it is Pashtun land, Pashtuns gladly walk in, speak the language,culture and share ancestory.

To your information, Tajiks and Pashtoons look very very similar to each other, you cant just say somebody is tajik or pashtoon because of the look. I can see a difference in look between Panjabis and Pashtoons, but not between Tajiks and Pashtoons in general.

Does it make sense now?

Not so far.


I mean, even Kabul is like approximately 60percent Pashtun

Kabul city is native Tajik , and is still majority Tajik, but having minority pashtoon. Still, i didnt want to mention this, because Afghanistan is the land of ALL AFGHANS no matter who they are. If you have got any reliiable source to prove me wrong i will glady accept your theory.


, Tajiks are welcomed in Pakistan too, but they would feel way to alien. Imagine speaking Dari in a place where you have nearly 30million Pashto speakers? No body would understand you, Even in Quetta, Hazaras and Punjabis are being target killed, let alone Tajik.

As i said before, i used to live in peshawar for years and i know the place quite well. What you say doesnt add up. About Quetta, there might be problem for Panjabis, or Hazaras, but i dont know much about it. By the way, you should also know that millions of Afghans live in Iran as well and among them large numbers of tajkis live there too.

CIA.GOV
Says there are 42-45 percent right NOW.

According to CIA, it says they pashtoons are 42%, not 45% which confirms my point. and this 42% is the largest not majority, secondly, Farsi is the first langauge over 50% of AFghans while around 70% i think speak it as their second language, on the other hand pashtoo is the first language of 35% of afghans. Hope you like other people dont use the ethnicity issue to score some point, because pakistan has also got ethnic problesm and we are both in the same boat. lets defuse this problem and not promote it. you are all pakistanis and we are all afghans and all iranains. i dont see what will be the problem if pakistani and afghani pashtoons interact with each other and have cultural and linguistc ties, it is their god given rights. at the same time i dont see problem with tajiks of afghanistan having ties with the tajiks of tajikistan, samarqand/bukhara and iran, it is also their rights. except we all have got different nationalities which is fine. as long as we are not going to ethno nationalism, then everything shold be fine.

 

[PakiPashtun]

We all know the MAJORITY of refugees in Pakistan are Pashtun because there brothers from Pakistan embraced them into there lands.
There are an estimated 4-6million refugees in Pakistan. THE MAJORITY of that is Pashtun.

Probably less than a quarter million or half a million is Tajik.

OK, apart from PROBABLY, how can you say with evidence that there are 4-5 million refugees in Paksitan and only less than a quarter of them are tajiks? Any creible link for it? I used to live in peshawar for many years and i saw everything in opposite what you say.

The reason why it cant be Tajik respected brother is because Tajiks will look like Aliens in a N.W.F.P that is predominantly Pashtun and everyone speaks Pashto, Since it is Pashtun land, Pashtuns gladly walk in, speak the language,culture and share ancestory.

To your information, Tajiks and Pashtoons look very very similar to each other, you cant just say somebody is tajik or pashtoon because of the look. I can see a difference in look between Panjabis and Pashtoons, but not between Tajiks and Pashtoons in general.

Does it make sense now?

Not so far.


I mean, even Kabul is like approximately 60percent Pashtun

Kabul city is native Tajik , and is still majority Tajik, but having minority pashtoon. Still, i didnt want to mention this, because Afghanistan is the land of ALL AFGHANS no matter who they are. If you have got any reliiable source to prove me wrong i will glady accept your theory.


, Tajiks are welcomed in Pakistan too, but they would feel way to alien. Imagine speaking Dari in a place where you have nearly 30million Pashto speakers? No body would understand you, Even in Quetta, Hazaras and Punjabis are being target killed, let alone Tajik.

As i said before, i used to live in peshawar for years and i know the place quite well. What you say doesnt add up. About Quetta, there might be problem for Panjabis, or Hazaras, but i dont know much about it. By the way, you should also know that millions of Afghans live in Iran as well and among them large numbers of tajkis live there too.

CIA.GOV
Says there are 42-45 percent right NOW.

According to CIA, it says they pashtoons are 42%, not 45% which confirms my point. and this 42% is the largest not majority, secondly, Farsi is the first langauge over 50% of AFghans while around 70% i think speak it as their second language, on the other hand pashtoo is the first language of 35% of afghans. Hope you like other people dont use the ethnicity issue to score some point, because pakistan has also got ethnic problesm and we are both in the same boat. lets defuse this problem and not promote it. you are all pakistanis and we are all afghans and all iranains. i dont see what will be the problem if pakistani and afghani pashtoons interact with each other and have cultural and linguistc ties, it is their god given rights. at the same time i dont see problem with tajiks of afghanistan having ties with the tajiks of tajikistan, samarqand/bukhara and iran, it is also their rights. except we all have got different nationalities which is fine. as long as we are not going to ethno nationalism, then everything shold be fine.

Okay, Your first claim was Kabul province is not Pashtun majority which you are wrong.
Let me correct you on that, Kabul province is,was and still is Pashtun majority.

According to the Afghan ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and UNHCR, Credible enough or do you need more? I maybe Pakistani but I am not dumb and will not allow you to spread falsehood.

The Afghan Ministry of Rural Rehabilitation & Development along with UNHCR estimates that Pashtuns are around 60% of the population and make up the majority in the province, followed by Persian-speaking Tajiks and Hazaras who are the majority in Kabul City. Overall, Persian speakers are estimated to be around 40% of the population.[1] Uzbeks, Turkmens, Balochs, Sikhs and Hindus, who are found mainly in the capital city, form sizable minorities. About 85% of the population is Sunnite while 14% include Shi'ites. The remaining 1% are followers of Sikhism, Hinduism and other religions. The major Pashtun tibes in the province are Ghilzai, Shinwari, Khugyani, Wardak and Safi.[2]

Your 2nd claim was you wanted to see if the Majority of refugees are Pashtuns and you would like to see the population.

I am one of those people who think there are at least 7-10million refugees in Pakistan who are majority Pashtun. when you visit Karachi my theory will be confirmed.

Here is my source for that claim
http://www.hrcp-web.org/PDF/RRefugees.pdf

It states the majority of the refugees of the 1980 were Pashtun and presently. I am surprised you find this as news, as Pashtuns can walk in any city and not even be questioned because they look,talk, and everything the same.

Tajiks and Pashtuns are not the same at all not do they look a like, Tajik would have a difficulty assimiliating in Pashtun dominant cities since they can not speak Urdu or Pashto, imagine.


So since we know now the majority of the refugees which are Pashtun in Pakistan return back to Afghanistan, Pashtuns will be an overwhelming majority, They are a majority already, but they will become even more excessive.

Tajiks are a minority in Afghanistan as compared to Pashtuns, They are nearly half the Pashtun population worldwide. The Pashtun diaspora is HUGE.

We have nearly 100,000 British Pashtuns in london alone.
nearly half a million in the UAE.



There is a reason why my country is interested in Pashtuns, they share a similarity with them and the same people are the 2nd largest ethnic group of my country Pakistan.



We can say whatever we want but it is logic that a Tajik will have a difficulty as compared to Pashtun. Tajik will be more comfortable in Iran, Pashtun is more comfortable in Pakistan. This is not difficult.

Same language CULTURE, AND ANCESTOR nvm same exact PEOPLE vs People who are Persian and everything they do is considered alien. Get the difference?


Oh and some of the questions you asked were very obvious, You need to use google more often to find sources. I am surprised you did not know Kabul province is Pashtun majority, the city probably isnt, but the province is pure pashtun.

 

[Ahmad]

Okay, Your first claim was Kabul province is not Pashtun majority which you are wrong.
Let me correct you on that, Kabul province is,was and still is Pashtun majority.

According to the Afghan ministry of Rural Rehabilitation and UNHCR, Credible enough or do you need more? I maybe Pakistani but I am not dumb and will not allow you to spread falsehood.

Your 2nd claim was you wanted to see if the Majority of refugees are Pashtuns and you would like to see the population.

I am one of those people who think there are at least 7-10million refugees in Pakistan who are majority Pashtun. when you visit Karachi my theory will be confirmed.

Here is my source for that claim
http://www.hrcp-web.org/PDF/RRefugees.pdf

It states the majority of the refugees of the 1980 were Pashtun and presently. I am surprised you find this as news, as Pashtuns can walk in any city and not even be questioned because they look,talk, and everything the same.

Tajiks and Pashtuns are not the same at all not do they look a like, Tajik would have a difficulty assimiliating in Pashtun dominant cities since they can not speak Urdu or Pashto, imagine.


So since we know now the majority of the refugees which are Pashtun in Pakistan return back to Afghanistan, Pashtuns will be an overwhelming majority, They are a majority already, but they will become even more excessive.

Tajiks are a minority in Afghanistan as compared to Pashtuns, They are nearly half the Pashtun population worldwide. The Pashtun diaspora is HUGE.

We have nearly 100,000 British Pashtuns in london alone.
nearly half a million in the UAE.



There is a reason why my country is interested in Pashtuns, they share a similarity with them and the same people are the 2nd largest ethnic group of my country Pakistan.



We can say whatever we want but it is logic that a Tajik will have a difficulty as compared to Pashtun. Tajik will be more comfortable in Iran, Pashtun is more comfortable in Pakistan. This is not difficult.

Same language CULTURE, AND ANCESTOR nvm same exact PEOPLE vs People who are Persian and everything they do is considered alien. Get the difference?


Oh and some of the questions you asked were very obvious, You need to use google more often to find sources. I am surprised you did not know Kabul province is Pashtun majority, the city probably isnt, but the province is pure pashtun.


YouTube- Kabul - The ethnic Pashtun make up the largest percentage of the population of the province Kabul

Dear PP, i dont wana go to in an ethnic war with you and derail the talk. The number o refugees in Pakistan is quite dynamic and people go/come on daily basis, i find it hard to have any creidble statistics, secondly even if the that claim is true, what can you say about the refugees in iran(on top of it central asian republics as well) who are majority Tajiks? if they go back then there is a balance. And when i said about the tajik majority in Kabul, i meant in Kabul city, not the province. Districs of south have got more pashtoon and north more tajik. At the end the overall population of Pashtoons wont exced more than 40-42%. Even if they are more than 50% what is the problem then? They are as national of Afghanisan as the others, they are our countrymen and bros despite all the problems we have, dont you guys have ethnic problmes among yoursleves in pakistan?. And i wont respond to any ethnic based argumetn in this thread because it is not topic.

Let me go back to the original argument, because what we said above was not our debate. You said about the love of Afghan Pashtoons to Pakistanis, yes they love paksitanis. Tajiks of Afghanistan love people of samarqand/bukhara, people of tajikistan and iran, because they have got everything in common with each other, language, culture, ethnicity etc. But can you tell me that the Pashtoons of Afghanistna love all pakistanis? Do they love Sindhis? do they love Panjabis? do they love Muhajirs? They love peshawar because of its ethnic affiliation. Taht is the reason i wanted to make a corrrection to the post of our brother Omar.

 

[PakiPashtun]

Dear PP, i dont wana go to in an ethnic war with you and derail the talk. The number o refugees in Pakistan is quite dynamic and people go/come on daily basis, i find it hard to have any creidble statistics, secondly even if the that claim is true, what can you say about the refugees in iran(on top of it central asian republics as well) who are majority Tajiks? if they go back then there is a balance. And when i said about the tajik majority in Kabul, i meant in Kabul city, not the province. Districs of south have got more pashtoon and north more tajik. At the end the overall population of Pashtoons wont exced more than 40-42%. Even if they are more than 50% what is the problem then? They are as national of Afghanisan as the others, they are our countrymen and bros despite all the problems we have, dont you guys have ethnic problmes among yoursleves in pakistan?. And i wont respond to any ethnic based argumetn in this thread because it is not topic.

Let me go back to the original argument, because what we said above was not our debate. You said about the love of Afghan Pashtoons to Pakistanis, yes they love paksitanis. Tajiks of Afghanistan love people of samarqand/bukhara, people of tajikistan and iran, because they have got everything in common with each other, language, culture, ethnicity etc. But can you tell me that the Pashtoons of Afghanistna love all pakistanis? Do they love Sindhis? do they love Panjabis? do they love Muhajirs? They love peshawar because of its ethnic affiliation. Taht is the reason i wanted to make a corrrection to the post of our brother Omar.

I provided a credible source for everything yet you are still dancing with your statements but ok.


Lets leave it as that, its is visible that I provided proof such as UNHCR and your very own Afghan statistics and Pakistani statistics to show the majority of the refugees here(In millions) are Pashtuns. And face it Afghanistan is Pashtun majority.


Pashtuns from Afgahnistan love us Pakistanis and we love them and will ALWAYS support them LIKE WE ALWAYS HAVE.


Leave it at this.


Thanks

 

[Ahmad]

Thanks

I provided a credible source for everything yet you are still dancing with your statements but ok.


Lets leave it as that, its is visible that I provided proof such as UNHCR and your very own Afghan statistics and Pakistani statistics to show the majority of the refugees here(In millions) are Pashtuns. And face it Afghanistan is Pashtun majority.

My last post regarding this issue as it is not the topic. Over all population of afgahnistan has 40-42% pashtoon which is largest group not majority. if you call it majority then that is fine by me. Refugees are everywhere not just in paksitan, Iran, CARs and others as i gave the example. Even if they are majority, then what is the problem? everybody is national of that country including them.


Pashtuns from Afgahnistan love us Pakistanis and we love them and will ALWAYS support them LIKE WE ALWAYS HAVE.


Leave it at this.

Pashtoons of Afghanistan love Pakhtuns of pakistan. Did i ever deny that? At the same time Tajiks of Afghanistna love tajikis of tajizistan/bkhara/samarqand and iran. it is purely ethnic based love and nothing to do with nations and countries, hope you get the point.