Afghan poll shows India most favoured, Pakistan unpopular

[equiliz3r]

Ohh really. Do you live in Pakistan??. Did you see any truck stopped??. I live In Peshawar Pakistan. I travel on the road every day from which all those trucks goes. So stop making false statements. Looks like you forgot to take your pills.

pakistan has stopped trucks fro using its area to trade with India.

I still stand by my comment.

 

[Adios Amigo]

pakistan has stopped trucks fro using its area to trade with India.

I still stand by my comment.

so you failed to provide a credible source.

Trade with India basically means Indian exports to Afghanistan, as Afghanistan isn't producing much, to export these day for known reasons.

That also means India building a port in Iran is not for decreasing afghan dependency on Pakistan but rather safeguarding their own interests in Afghanistan. So its more like helping your self rather then helping others, in the name of helping others.

adios

 

[TechLahore]

In Afghanistan's ethnic compostion there is no majority and minority, although there is the largest and smallest groups which is quite different to the concept of majority and minority. Secondly, if you dont believe in this survey then present us with a survey which is more reliable to you? third: present gov of Afghanistan have more Pashtoon than other ethnic groups(if thats what you meant in your post), even if there is full pashtoon in the gov, it will be a nightmare for pakistan because they will shout for merging of NWFP to afghanistna while other ethnic groups never do such a thing. This poll was conducted by BBC in all provinces of the country and they chose people randomly.

I was not referring to just a single ethnic group. According to the CIA World Factbook, 42% of Afghans are Pashtun, while another ~ 15% are Uzbek, Turkmen and Baluch. These groups are more allied with the mainstream Pashtun elements. If you've noticed, the Pashtun Taliban are collaborating heavily with outlaw Uzbek elements. While this is unfortunate, it does point to certain ethnic groups being more on board with Pashtuns than others. It is this collective that is a majority in Afghanistan and it is not at all part of the current government. The Pashtun elements that are in the current Afghan government - including Karzai - are highly corrupt, not popular amongst the majority of Pashtuns in Afghanistan (and also amongst Pashtuns outside Afghanistan!) and devoid of any credibility. They have been deliberately placed for 'show' and to address concerns that the Pashtun have been evicted from mainstream power in Afghanistan. The veil is thin, however. We all know that Karzai is President because he has been propped up by an external power and not because he is genuinely representative of the Pashtuns of Afghanistan or popular in any way. In fact, even his own financiers and political backers recently alleged that he rigged the recent presidential election.

If you think about it, this recent election is in fact a clear indication of how biased and unrepresentative the current setup really is. Afghanistan - which is unfortunately split along ethnic lines thanks partially to years of infighting post Soviet withdrawl - would NEVER vote Abdullah Abdullah to the Presidency. Abdullah is supported by a very small minority of Afghans. Yet, the allegations were that the election was rigged to allow Karzai to win whereas Abdullah would have won if the conduct was "free and fair". Think about this. This means that the entire setup in Afghanistan is a farce today... If the majority of votes are in Abdullah Abdullah's favour, it means that the majority of the people of Afghanistan have been excluded from the polls. If a real free and fair election were conducted, a representative Pashtun/Uzbek mix would come to power. Not a fringe player like Abdullah Abdullah.

This poll was conductec by the BBC, who is in the gov and who is not shouldnt matter here. by the way, present gov of afghanistan have more pashtoons than other ethnic groups. the other ethnic groups make up the largest opposition to this gov. and it is also wrong to say that massive areas of afghanistan is no go area. yes, there are alot of explosions, but to say it is no go area is totally wrong.

I've addressed the issue of Pashtun participation in the current government above.

On the subject of the credibility of the poll, of course it makes a difference who is in government! Do you think the BBC ventured into "Taliban" territory, which is the majority of Afghanistan? Do you think the government of Afghanistan - which is universally accepted as being incredibly corrupt - would not sway this poll in their favour? Very naive thought, if so.

in present history of afghanistan people have always seen pakistan not trustwhorthy at least for the last 30 years. power of the gov is not important here, because it is saying about people's opinoin. surely if there is a gov of Mullah Omar, the gov(not people) will praise their pakistani masters.

Not at all. The people of Afghanistan have always been very friendly to Pakistan. The fact is that the communist government in Afghanistan (pre-soviet invasion), was allied with the Soviet Union, which was in turn unfriendly to Pakistan. During this time, the majority of the people of Afghanistan were actually against this government. If this were not so, you would not have seen the entire country rise up against Najibullah and his Soviet masters. Therefore, the anti-Pakistan stance of the Afghan government during this time was not representative of the will or opinion of the Afghan people. Prior to this, during the Zahir Shah government, ties were mostly fine - the only issue was the Durand line - and that too was a far, far smaller issue than say Rann of Kuch or Kashmir. The fact that Pakistan has *always* looked upon its western border as one where it could place its important military assets securely, away from India, should indicate to you that Afghanistan was never perceived as a real threat.

And prior to the Zahir Shah government, there is really not much difference between the Afghans and much of Pakistan. We share a common heritage and in fact, much of the blood that runs in the veins of many Pakistanis is Turko-mongol and Afghan blood.

The only time there has been any Pak-Afghan issue is when there has been an unrepresentative government in Kabul conspiring with a foreign power (e.g. the Soviet Union) to undermine the aspirations of the Afghan people. A truly democratically elected government in Afghanistan - today or in any decade past - would be friendly to Pakistan. You just have to know the people to figure that out...

 

[Supersonic26]

Not suprised. India and afghanistan friends since long. After what pakistan backed taliban done to afghanistan it is bond to happen. Afghanistan big player for india. Afghans loves india more then any country loves india. Afghan indians bhai bhai

 

[desiman]

There is a huge Afghani community in the Khan Market south delhi region, they are very pro-India and have lived there for ages. India and Afghanistan have always shared a very close relationship. Bollywood movies are still a big attraction in Afganistan with many being shot there also.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Pakistan has invested $500 million in reconstruction in Afghanistan compared to a pledged $1.2 billion by India (which reminds me, could some Indians determine the actual amount spent by India on reconstruction? Is it the entire pledged amount or close to it?). Pakistan is also Afghanistan's largest trading partner by miles.

Pakistan's unpopularity in Afghanistan is more due to a historical sentiment in Afghanistan that claims Pakistani territory as well as continued propaganda pushed by the Afghan government maligning Pakistan, such as this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-fo...dly-pays-acid-attacks-afghan-schoolgirls.html

 

[desiman]

Pakistan has invested $500 million in reconstruction in Afghanistan compared to a pledged $1.2 billion by India (which reminds me, could some Indians determine the actual amount spent by India on reconstruction? Is it the entire pledged amount or close to it?). Pakistan is also Afghanistan's largest trading partner by miles.

Pakistan's unpopularity in Afghanistan is more due to a historical sentiment in Afghanistan that claims Pakistani territory as well as continued propaganda pushed by the Afghan government maligning Pakistan, such as this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-fo...dly-pays-acid-attacks-afghan-schoolgirls.html

Afghanistan

Exports - partners:
India 20.5%, Pakistan 18.5%, US 17.2%, Tajikistan 13.3%, Netherlands 7.2% (2008)

Imports - partners:
Pakistan 36.9%, US 9.5%, Germany 7.7%, India 5.2% (2008)


CIA WORLD FACTBOOK


India is actually ahead of Pakistan in exports and the growth rate was clocked at over 10% last year, but yes in import's Pakistan still leads by quite a lot.

 

[Adios Amigo]

There is a huge Afghani community in the Khan Market south delhi region, they are very pro-India and have lived there for ages. India and Afghanistan have always shared a very close relationship. Bollywood movies are still a big attraction in Afganistan with many being shot there also.

hahahahaha khan market is very important in Indo- Afghan relationship, plz do take good care of it. Afghani community living in there for ages are very pro- Indian, that's another merical you wanna show to the world



adios

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

pakistan has stopped trucks fro using its area to trade with India.

I still stand by my comment.

This report indicates that Pakistan will allow upto 60 Afghan trucks a month to carry goods to India.

http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect...siness/afghan-transport-for-transit-trade-829

Obviously the new Afghan-Pakistan Tranist trade agreement is not finalized, so nothing is set in stone.

There have been objections to allowing Afghan trucks in that Pakistani infrastructure would be used and cost Pakistani taxpayers in terms of wear and tear with Pakistani citizens (truckers) not reaping the benefits.

Afterall, if Afghanistan had a coastline, its truckers would only transport goods within its borders, so to only allow Afghan trucks to pick up goods in Peshawar or at the Afghan-Pakistan border is reasonable.

As for allowing India transit trade with Afghanistan, there are very real security implications with allowing a hostile nation access through the length and breadth of Pakistan, as well as the lack of normalization with India that precludes any cooperation with her.

Plus, given that the Afghan side has so far not shown interest in any of the Pakistani proposals to cut down on smuggling, allowing Indian goods access through Pakistan (cheaper than through Iran) might result in the Pakistani market being flooded with cheap Indian goods smuggled in from Afghanistan that avoid duties and taxes.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Afghanistan

Exports - partners:
India 20.5%, Pakistan 18.5%, US 17.2%, Tajikistan 13.3%, Netherlands 7.2% (2008)

Imports - partners:
Pakistan 36.9%, US 9.5%, Germany 7.7%, India 5.2% (2008)


CIA WORLD FACTBOOK


India is actually ahead of Pakistan in exports and the growth rate was clocked at over 10% last year, but yes in import's Pakistan still leads by quite a lot.

Which is why I referred to Pakistan as being Afghanistan's largest Trade partner (which your figures bear it out to be). Those figures also do not include the estimated billions in illegal trade with Afghanistan (smuggled electronics, tea, vehicles etc into Pakistan, and smuggled food products such as wheat, rice, sugar etc into Afghanistan) that damage Pakistan's economy, revenues and food security.

Nor is there any estimation of the economic impact of the large cross-border movement across the Durand by the Tribes, Pashtun and others that live and spend on each side when they travel.

Overall Pakistan and Afghanistan have trade, economic and cultural links that dwarf those with India, and it is sad, if this poll is a true reflection of Afghan attitudes, that Afghans do not recognize that.

 

[jamal18]

I was always in favour of closer co-operation or unity with Afghanistan, but if this poll is true, ( and that is a big 'if') I'll be happy with keeping our distance. We can do nothing if the Afghans genuinely dislike us.

 

[Moorkh]

Which is why I referred to Pakistan as being Afghanistan's largest Trade partner (which your figures bear it out to be). Those figures also do not include the estimated billions in illegal trade with Afghanistan (smuggled electronics, tea, vehicles etc into Pakistan, and smuggled food products such as wheat, rice, sugar etc into Afghanistan) that damage Pakistan's economy, revenues and food security.

Nor is there any estimation of the economic impact of the large cross-border movement across the Durand by the Tribes, Pashtun and others that live and spend on each side when they travel.

Overall Pakistan and Afghanistan have trade, economic and cultural links that dwarf those with India, and it is sad, if this poll is a true reflection of Afghan attitudes, that Afghans do not recognize that.

as far as illegal trade is concerned you are most probably right and i have no reason to believe that it is not a very large amount

your assertion that the numbers indicate a much closer relationship between afganistan and pakistan seems slightly weak

the numbers are what they are currently because GoP does not allow transit for indian goods through its territory. good choice for GoP. however this means that trade with india could have been much greater than it is now. so the afgans trade a lot with pakistan because it is like their only choice. not because they have greater affinity towards pakistan

 

[RPK]

Pakistan has invested $500 million in reconstruction in Afghanistan compared to a pledged $1.2 billion by India (which reminds me, could some Indians determine the actual amount spent by India on reconstruction? Is it the entire pledged amount or close to it?). Pakistan is also Afghanistan's largest trading partner by miles.

Pakistan's unpopularity in Afghanistan is more due to a historical sentiment in Afghanistan that claims Pakistani territory as well as continued propaganda pushed by the Afghan government maligning Pakistan, such as this:

http://www.defence.pk/forums/u-s-fo...dly-pays-acid-attacks-afghan-schoolgirls.html

India tells US: we're willing to boost Afghan aid | Reuters

 

[SMC]

Not suprised. India and afghanistan friends since long. After what pakistan backed taliban done to afghanistan it is bond to happen. Afghanistan big player for india. Afghans loves india more then any country loves india. Afghan indians bhai bhai

You should note that "pakistan backed taliban" were a direct consequence of soviet invasion and didn't come there just because Pakistan wanted them to come.

Also, read my comments about how this is not an accurate representation of Afghan opinion. 70% of Afghanistan territory is under Taliban control. It's impossible to conduct a bias-free survey. 51% support for US is a testament for the bias of the survey. Real support for US would be at most 20%.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

your assertion that the numbers indicate a much closer relationship between afganistan and pakistan seems slightly weak

the numbers are what they are currently because GoP does not allow transit for indian goods through its territory. good choice for GoP. however this means that trade with india could have been much greater than it is now. so the afgans trade a lot with pakistan because it is like their only choice. not because they have greater affinity towards pakistan

India has not been denied exports to Afghanistan through Iran, so the argument that Pakistan is the only choice is inaccurate. In fact, Indians love to point out this fact, that they do not need Pakistan given that Iran can be used as a route to Afghanistan and the CAR's.

Secondly, Pakistan has allowed Afghan exports to India under the old ATT as well, so on that count too there have been no major restrictions historically.

Now if this poll is true, then it is obvious that Afghans do not have great affinity with Pakistan - but my point is precisely that the fact that the Afghans do not have great affinity with Pakistan despite all these cultural, economic, trade and travel linkages between Afghans and Pakistanis is disappointing and reflective of a negative mindset propagated through anti-Pakistan propaganda by successive Afghan regimes.