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Afghan-Pak Transit Trade

India is looking at its trade with Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan and the other Central Asian Republics and although the Pakistan – Afghanistan Route is shorter, especially for Goods emanating from Northern India, the route via Iran to Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan is relatively shorter than via Pakistan and Afghanistan (Two Transit Countries).

Iran is providing many financial benefits by way of miniscule expenses at Chabahar and would eventually for large consignments be cheaper than via Pakistan.

The main reason Pakistan is protesting that in spite of the Transit dues payable by Indian Goods it Pakistani Industry and Goods that will most probably face very stiff competition from Indian Goods.

As such it is in Pakistan’s overall as well as long term interest to deny “Transit” facilities to Indian Goods.

Thus Pakistan’s Interest, being paramount, come First.

Simple.

The main reason india pressing for Pak route is not because of trade!
It is on record that india refused Pakistan's security gurantees in the Iran pipe line project despite the fact it will be passing far away from FATA(Peaceful part).
Now india has to be mad to start goods transit through Pakistan without gurantees.
So what is it in the indian trucks if not goods??? and what trust does india have in Zardari that it did not even mention for state gurantee and embarked on secret transit trade?? an dwhy indian media is forcded to hide the biggest favor ever done on india by any nation at the cost of its own economy, security and society???
It is upto saneful people to GUESS the most obvious!! :smokin:

With current transit trade results are for every one to see.

Next question, how many of you have seen indian goods?
I have.....
There is nothing which is better than Pakistan, China or turkey etc. india cannot do any bussiness without support of Pak govt and to work with Pak govt. is one simple formulae...find Mr.10% than deliver junk.
I have examples where junk was delivered for against millions of dollars and that to by well known Europen company.
We all know the recent story of rental power plants.

If Pakistani leaders have vision they may have granted Turkey, Iran and SaudiArabia MoF rather than......

I still remember what indians did to the shipments of cement from Pakistan.....
 
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And there is no better understanding between India and Pakistan also No better understanding between Indian backed anti-Pakistan elements and Pakistan.

No trade before solution to Kashmir issue

I hope this is your personal opinion and not the GOP position
 
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But we are not giving India any gollies for getting the route to BD or Nepal ;)

BTW why India is reluctant to give the same viz a viz BD and Nepal lolzz when you are asking favour for the same for Afghanistan

It is Afghan which wants the transit and no gollies from India either. We wont make trillions by trading with Afghan in the next decade. We trade more with China than with any other country in Asia.

About your lazy attitude to trade: not to mention deteriorating state of your economy?
:cheers:
 
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Madam Jana,

Being a Journalist you must be aware that the Port of Chabahar was opened nearly Thirty Years ago also that the Indian Conglomerate "Larsen and Toubro" is improving & modernizing the port so that it can host large Ships.

India is looking at its trade with Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Afghanistan and the other Central Asian Republics and although the Pakistan – Afghanistan Route is shorter, especially for Goods emanating from Northern India, the route via Iran to Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan is relatively shorter than via Pakistan and Afghanistan (Two Transit Countries).

Iran is providing many financial benefits by way of miniscule expenses at Chabahar and would eventually for large consignments be cheaper than via Pakistan.

The main reason Pakistan is protesting that in spite of the Transit dues payable by Indian Goods it Pakistani Industry and Goods that will most probably face very stiff competition from Indian Goods.

As such it is in Pakistan’s overall as well as long term interest to deny “Transit” facilities to Indian Goods.

Thus Pakistan’s Interest, being paramount, come First.

Simple.

Well, if Pakistan wants a developed economy it has to compete. You cannot have a protectionism regime and also a healthy economy. Closed economy is always bad for the citizens and consumers

Thus it is not in the interest of Pakistan: whether it is short term or long term
 
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Well, if Pakistan wants a developed economy it has to compete. You cannot have a protectionism regime and also a healthy economy. Closed economy is always bad for the citizens and consumers

Thus it is not in the interest of Pakistan: whether it is short term or long term

no stop talking, yo can do whatever is needed to make your economy successful, protectionist or free market, its always been the case, every case has its own unique situation, to quote a common saying "are you thick or something?"

plus afghanistan is a relatively small market for india and its not going to be that great even in the next 25 years, india just wants to buy a nation to control through bully tactics, except nobody is and ever has been scared of an indian!!
 
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The main reason india pressing for Pak route is not because of trade!
It is on record that india refused Pakistan's security gurantees in the Iran pipe line project despite the fact it will be passing far away from FATA(Peaceful part).
Now india has to be mad to start goods transit through Pakistan without gurantees.
So what is it in the indian trucks if not goods??? and what trust does india have in Zardari that it did not even mention for state gurantee and embarked on secret transit trade?? an dwhy indian media is forcded to hide the biggest favor ever done on india by any nation at the cost of its own economy, security and society???
It is upto saneful people to GUESS the most obvious!! :smokin:

With current transit trade results are for every one to see.

Next question, how many of you have seen indian goods?
I have.....
There is nothing which is better than Pakistan, China or turkey etc. india cannot do any bussiness without support of Pak govt and to work with Pak govt. is one simple formulae...find Mr.10% than deliver junk.
I have examples where junk was delivered for against millions of dollars and that to by well known Europen company.
We all know the recent story of rental power plants.

If Pakistani leaders have vision they may have granted Turkey, Iran and SaudiArabia MoF rather than......

I still remember what indians did to the shipments of cement from Pakistan.....

The Natural Gas in the Iran-Pakistan-India Pipeline is to be paid for by India on crossing the Iran-Pakistan Border. So the Gas is Indian Owned and as such any disruption is a direct loss to the Indians plus the Indian Industry will be without Energy for Weeks if not Months or even longer. Pakistan in this case will be laughing.

Similarly, the Goods from India are paid for on crossing the India-Pakistan Border and any disruption will be suffered by the Afghans and in this case India’s Industry or Commerce is not disrupted. In this case the Afghans will raise a hue and cry!

Remember once the trucks enter Pakistan the Goods are already paid for and as such the Indians do not need any guarantees from Pakistan.
 
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@ r3alist

Anyway, I would be interested to know what Pakistan is going to do when WTO framework for trade policies are implemented across the world.
 
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Can we stick to the topic in terms of the officially outlined positions of the Afghan and Pakistan governments and the stated objections and hurdles.

As I pointed out, the earlier posts (and even the latest article posted by Ejaz) lay out very specifically what the objections and proposed solutions by Pakistan are. Focus on that instead of going off on speculative tangents please.
 
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7th round of talks on proposed APTTA

Deadlock persists over allowing transit facility

* Afghanistan demands allowing transit facility for transportation of Indian goods via Pakistan land route to Afghanistan through Wahga road link


By Sajid Chaudhry

ISLAMABAD: Deadlock over the demand of Afghanistan for allowing transit facility for transportation of Indian goods via Pakistan land route to Afghanistan through Wagah road link persisted here on Tuesday during the 7th round of talks on the proposed Afghanistan Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement (APTTA), official sources informed Daily Times.

An Afghanistan Embassy official informed that both the countries are likely to conclude APTTA agreement today (Wednesday), however, a Pakistani official said that it is unlikely that both the countries would be able to conclude the proposed APTTA as major differences still persisted. It’s really difficult for Pakistan to accept Afghanistan’s demand especially allowing transit facility for Indian goods via land route to Afghanistan through Wagah road link.

Afghan side has also not responded to Pakistan’s request for charging customs duty on the import of Afghan cargo in Karachi and later disbursement of the proceeds of this duty to Afghan government to effectively curb the smuggling of imported goods under transit agreement.

Pakistan and Afghanistan sides discussed the issues pending for finalisation of APTTA at 7th round of talks held at a local hotel where Federal Minister for Finance Dr Hafeez Shaikh led the Pakistan’s side and Minister for Finance Afghanistan Hazrat Omar Zakhilwal and Minister for Mines, Afghanistan Wahidullah Shahrani led the Afghan side in these crucial talks. Senior officials from several federal ministries as well as high officials from Afghan government also assisted the talks. Both Pakistan and Afghanistan are trying to conclude the APTTA in the second week of July 2010 and there are plans to sign this historic agreement during the visit of US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to Kabul on July 20, official sources informed.

Pakistan and Afghanistan have already completed the 6th rounds of talks for finalisation of the proposed APTTA for promotion of bilateral trade as well as eliminating cross border smuggling. The 7th round of talks on APTTA, which started here on Tuesday are scheduled to complete by today (Wednesday) as the Afghan side would give its final view point on their demands, added the official source.

Official sources that attended the 7th round of talks informed that Afghan side again raised the issue of allowing transit facility for Indian goods via Pakistan land route for Afghanistan and they cited international conventions in this regard under, which land locked countries have the right to demand. However, it was the stated policy of the Pakistan government that allowing transit trade facility to Indian goods via Pakistan land route for Afghanistan was the bilateral issue and its possibility could be discussed with India after resumption of Pak-India Composite Dialogue. This demand should not be made part of the APTTA, as this agreement would govern bilateral trade and transit facilities.

Pakistan has proposed measures for having an effective control over cross-border smuggling including subjecting existing afghan imports with letter of credit, subjecting afghan imports with bank guarantee, compulsory licensing for afghan imports, placing quantitative restrictions on Afghan imports, maintaining increased sensitive list of items, and equalisation of customs tariff on items and charging of customs duty by Pakistan on transit goods to Afghanistan on behalf of Afghan government, official sources explained. However, on Tuesday the Afghan side informed the Pakistan’s side that they would be responding to these Pakistani demands on Wednesday, the last day of talks, sources added.

Shaikh in his opening remarks at the 7th round of talks said that Pakistan and Afghanistan are two brotherly Muslim countries, which share a common geography, common history and a rich cultural heritage. The two countries have been parts of ancient civilisations such as the Graeco-Bacectrian, Bhuddhist and Islamic civilisations. Both have been part of the same vast Iranian, Mongol, Turk and Afghanistan empires. Both countries are located in a very strategic region of the world and are at the cross roads of ancient trade routes. The two countries hold the key to trade between Indian sub continent, Central Asia, China, and Russia.

Pakistan is aware of its international commitments under the UN Convention on Transit Trade of Land Locked States, freedom of transit under Article 5 of GATT, Article 2 of the UN Convention of High Seas. It recognises the rights of Afghanistan as a land locked country. Pakistan is committed to facilitate Afghanistan-Pakistan bilateral trade, their involvement in regional trade and international trade. So far six rounds of talks have been held between the Joint Working Group, representing the stakeholders of both the countries. Significant progress has been made so for during the six rounds. Protocol five deals with Control of Precursors and Chemical Substance used in the illicit manufacture of narcotic drugs or psychotropic substances. Major text of the agreement and its protocols has been cleaned. The sixth round has been very important in the sense that it helped to crystallise and bring out the fundamental issues requiring resolution in order for the talks to move forward. I would like to appreciate the hard work done by the team members of both the countries.

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
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Sources within the Finance Ministry said that visiting Afghan Finance Minister, Omar Zakhilwal, proposed the addition of a clause to the new Pak-Afghan transit trade agreement that could enable Kabul to renegotiate the possibility of trading with New Delhi after three to four years.

“The bone of contention is the language of the new draft agreement, as Afghanistan wants to insert a provision which would keep the door open for talks on the issue of trade with India,” explained an official of the ministry.

Furthermore, no mutually acceptable solution could be reached on the issue of curbing smuggling of Afghanistan-bound goods into Pakistan. Sources said that Afghanistan was not ready to cap its imports or levy duties on them.

Pakistan had proposed customs duties on Afghanistan-bound imports and also offered to collect them on behalf of Kabul.

It is claimed that Pakistan offered Afghanistan a relaxation on the import of some of the 30 items on the negative list in order to reach an agreement.

Pakistan’s official position on the matter was that the transit trade agreement is strictly between Islamabad and Kabul and that the issue of trade with India is a separate one.

Pakistan denies Afghanistan trade route to India – The Express Tribune
 
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indian goods through Pakistan is not an option; they should even CONTEMPLATE such a move, in my opinion
 
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Transportation of Indian goods to Afghanistan via Wahgah: Pakistan says no to proposal


SOHAIL SARFRAZ
ISLAMABAD (July 07 2010): Pakistan has outrightly rejected an Afghan proposal to allow transit facility for transportation of Indian goods to Afghanistan through Wagha border under the proposed Afghanistan Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement (APTTA).

During a special meeting on proposed Afghanistan Pakistan Transit Trade Agreement organised by the Ministry of Finance Tuesday, a senior official of the Ministry of Commerce boldly disclosed before the meeting that Pakistan will lose around $2 billion market by allowing access to Indian goods to Afghanistan.

Official of the Commerce Ministry categorically informed the meeting that Pakistan has nearly $2 billion market in Afghanistan which would be totally lost in case we allow access to Indian goods to Afghanistan under the transit facility. Pakistan is not obligated under any international agreement/convention to allow access to Indian goods through transit trade facility.

Giving access to India through land route to Afghanistan actually means giving complete control of Afghan and Central Asian markets to India. Indian exporters have more products to sell in Afghanistan, which are more competitive as compared to Pakistani goods. "We are not obliged to give market access to India", official informed the meeting. Due to brotherly relations with Afghanistan for promoting their exports, Pakistan has given access to Afghan origin goods to India through land route of Pakistan. The trade between Pakistan and India is a bilateral issue and India is not the party of the agreement, which we are presently being negotiating with Afghanistan, official informed the Afghan delegation.

Sources told Business Recorder here on Tuesday the Afghan side principally agreed to pay bank guarantee on the goods being transported from Karachi Port to Afghanistan through transit facility under the new agreement. They have also agreed to submit guarantees for the trucks, owed by Afghan transport industry, being used for transportation of goods from Pakistan to Afghanistan.

The Afghan side has also shown its willingness to open letter of credit (LCs) for the transit goods and copy of the same would be given to the customs authorities for verification. Similarly, the copy of the Goods Declaration (GD) would also be submitted to the Pakistani customs for reference.

Sources said that a special meeting on the proposed APTTA was organised by the Finance Ministry in an effort to have positive progress on the issue. It is a big achievement for Pakistan to obtain bank guarantees for the transit goods destined for Afghanistan which would not only control smuggling but also check missing of goods during transportation process. The new APTTA would incorporate a new provision in the agreement to seek bank guarantees against the transit goods as security.

Pakistani customs authorities and their Afghan counterpart discussed threadbare the issue of transit facility for Indian goods destined for Afghanistan under the new agreement. The issue of smuggling remained focus of discussion between the two sides. However, Afghan side insisted that the issue of smuggling and APTTA should be separately discussed. No doubt smuggling is a major issue for Pakistan, but the illicit trade and the APTTA should be separately discussed, sources quoted Afghan side as saying during the meeting.

Sources said that it is unlikely that both the countries would be in a position to reach consensus on the proposed provisions of the APTTA, as key issues still remain unresolved. Unless or until Afghan side accepts some of the most important proposals of the Pakistani side, there seems no possibility of a consensus agreement.

It is difficult for Pakistan to accept Afghan demand especially allowing transit facility for Indian goods via land route to Afghanistan through Wagha road link, sources said. A representative of the Afghan Embassy, who was also present in the meeting, was of the view that both the countries are likely to conclude APTTA agreement tomorrow (Wednesday).

During the meeting, Afghan side has also not responded to Pakistan's request for charging customs duty on the import of Afghan cargo at Karachi Port and later transfer of the amount to the relevant bank account of Afghan government to effectively check smuggling of goods under the under transit agreement. However, the Afghan side remained mum on this viable proposal of the Pakistani customs which could play a key role in controlling smuggling.

Pakistan and Afghan sides discussed the issues pending for finalisation of APTTA at a special round of talks held here where Federal Minister for Finance Dr Hafeez Shaikh led Pakistan side and Hazrat Omar Zakhilwal, Minister for Finance Afghanistan and Wahidullah Shahrani, Minister for Mines, Afghanistan led the Afghan side in these crucial talks. Senior officials from several federal ministries as well as high officials from Afghan government also assisted the talks.

Both Pakistan and Afghanistan are making efforts to conclude the APTTA in second week of July 2010 and there are plans to sign this historic agreement during the visit of US Secretary of State Hilary Clinton to Kabul on July 20, official sources informed.

Pakistan and Afghanistan have already completed six rounds of talks for the finalisation of proposed APTTA for promotion of bilateral trade as well as eliminating cross border smuggling. The special round of talks on APTTA which started here on Tuesday is scheduled to complete by today (Wednesday) as the Afghan side would give its final view point on their demands, added the official source.

Sources said that the Afghan side again raised the issue of allowing transit facility for Indian goods via Pakistan land route for Afghanistan and they cited international conventions in this regard under which land locked countries have the right to demand.

However, it was the stated policy of the Pakistan government that allowing transit trade facility to Indian goods via Pakistan land route for Afghanistan was the bilateral issue and its possibility could be discussed with India after resumption of Pak-India Composite Dialogue. This demand should not be made part of the APTTA, as this agreement encompass bilateral trade and transit facilities.

Sources said that Pakistan has proposed measures for having an effective control over cross border smuggling including subjecting existing afghan imports with letter of credit, subjecting afghan imports with bank guarantee, compulsory licensing for afghan imports, placing quantitative restrictions on Afghan imports, maintaining increased sensitive list of items, and equalisation of customs tariff on items and charging of customs duty by Pakistan on transit goods to Afghanistan on behalf of Afghan government.

However, Afghan side informed Pakistan side that they would respond to some of the proposals on the last day of talks on Wednesday (today), sources added. In his opening remarks, Federal Minister for Finance Dr Hafeez Shaikh said that Pakistan and Afghanistan are two brotherly Muslim countries who share a common geography, common history and a rich cultural heritage. The two countries have been parts of ancient civilisations such as the Graeco-Bacectrian, Buddhist and Islamic civilisations. Both have been part of the same vast Iranian, Mongol, Turk and Afghanistan empires. Both countries are located in very strategic region of the world and are at the crossroads of ancient trade routes. The two countries hold the key to trade between Indian sub continent, Central Asia, China, and Russia.

Pakistan is aware of its international commitments under the UN Convention on Transit Trade of Land locked States, freedom of Transit under Article 5 of GATT, Article 2 of the UN Convention of High Seas. It recognises the rights of Afghanistan as a land locked country. Pakistan is committed to facilitate Afghanistan-Pakistan bilateral trade, their involvement in regional trade and international trade.

So for 6 rounds of talks have been held between the Joint Working Group representing the stakeholders of both the countries. Significant progress has been made so for during the 6 rounds. Protocol 5, dealing with Control of Precursors and Chemical Substance used in the illicit Manufacture of Narcotic Drugs or psychotropic Substances. Major text of the Agreement and its protocols has been cleared. The 6th round has been very important in the sense that it helped in bringing out the fundamental issues requiring resolution in order for the talks to move forward.

"We are entering into negotiations with an open mind and positive attitude with the intention to address the outstanding issues and find solutions. He wished good luck and hope that we will be able to come up to the expectations of the people of both the countries," the Finance Minister added.
 
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Pakistan will lose billions if it competes with India in the open market. It is unlikely that Pakistan will ever give India access to Afghanistan and central Asia. The zero sum game is what best describes India Pakistan equation.
:cheers:
 
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Pakistan will lose billions if it competes with India in the open market. It is unlikely that Pakistan will ever give India access to Afghanistan and central Asia. The zero sum game is what best describes India Pakistan equation.
:cheers:

Aren't you competing (in Afghanistan) in the open market with Pakistan via Iran?
 
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It would be worthwhile for GoP to come up with say a negative lists of Indian goods which they believe would affect their main market and let other Indian goods be exported to Afghanistan. In particular heavy machinery for mining, power e.t.c would be beneficial for Afghanistan and would most likely not compete with any industry in Pakistan.

Then as Pakistan becomes more confident with the transit trade and its market share, the negative list for Indian goods can be culled further. Pakistan already has a head start in Afghanistan and even Central Asia as Afghanistan already provides transit to Pakistan.

Moreover the Indian transit trade could further lead to transit trade between Afghanistan and other SAARC countries like Bangladesh, Nepal e.t.c.
 
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