Afghan Invaders and Waris Shah

[Multani]

Mind your language. This thread doesn't discuss Baniyas, so your insight is unwelcome here. Both Pakhtuns and Punjabis have nothing to do with Baniyas, so you won't understand the complex social structure and history of these two ethnolinguistic groups. Don't poke nose in topics which are beyond your mental capability to understand.

@Multani: Mind your language as well, otherwise we'll have to report you.

I have been using proper adab in discussions. But have received nothing but name-calling in return.

I apologize for calling some of these racists as donkey.

abey champa,

1) Punjabis is not a caste,
2)Punjabis can be baniya too, those who put sheikhs in front of the name are baniyas only(buniessmen)
4) Pakthuns can be baniya too.
The problem with you people is you people cannot differentiate between caste, people of region , culture and religion. Confused ho tum.

Actually, @haj9211 called you a Baniya to insult you. Please recognize that. This word 'Baniya' is being used here to insult indian members. 'Baniya' is considered lowly, manipulative, greedy, and midget in the psyche of some of the Pakistanis with hatred for Indians. 'Baniya' is also used to defame hindus because they are perceived with all the attributes above.

Yes, of course, by caste, Shaikhs, Khawajas, Parachas [ khatris, aroras ] are of Baniya [ businessman] profession

 

[Screambowl]

I have been using proper adab in discussions. But have received nothing but name-calling in return.

I apologize for calling some of these racists as donkey.



Actually, @haj9211 called you a Baniya to insult you. Please recognize that. This word 'Baniya' is being used here to insult indian members. 'Baniya' is considered lowly, manipulative, greedy, and midget in the psyche of some of the Pakistanis with hatred for Indians. 'Baniya' is also used to defame hindus because they are perceived with all the attributes above.

Yes, of course, by caste, Shaikhs, Khawajas, Parachas [ khatris, aroras ] are of Baniya [ businessman] profession

yes I know that, my friend here is also not tall and is also not fair and he belongs to Rahim yar Khan, is he a Baniya too?

 

[Multani]

yes I know that, my friend here is also not tall and is also not fair and he belongs to Rahim yar Khan, is he a Baniya too?

which friend?

 

[Screambowl]

which friend?

friend in the sense i Know him.

 

[Multani]

friend in the sense i Know him.

Its not about being tall and fair. Its about being hindu and being indian nationalist and being dark and midget. This is the idea these racists propose.

A significant part of my family lives in Rahim Yar Khan. Its a rich region with a big native hindu community

 

[Screambowl]

Its not about being tall and fair. Its about being hindu and being indian nationalist and being short and midget. This is the idea these racists propose.

A significant part of my family lives in Rahim Yar Khan. Its a rich region with a big native hindu community

He is a muslim and Pakistani. In that case, all of the muslims in India are also Baniyas. I don't understand this concept. Anyways, Hindu baniya is very important though, because without him our defence budget will be 0

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

It seems to me that waris shah was supporter of Sikh misals and disliked feudal set up. Dr Manzur Ejaz in his article writes,
"During Waris Shah's lifetime not only was the Delhi thrown rotated among many incompetent rulers, but Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas were constantly ruling Punjab and North India. On top of that, the Sikh guerilla movement led by sections of poor Jatts was establishing misals (territories comprised of a few districts or smaller units) in the entire region. On a practical level, the Mughal empire's hold in Punjab had come to an end, the local Sikh misal chiefs were providing security to villages and towns for a small fee in comparison to the Mughal rulers' taking of half or one-third of the crop. Consequently, the farmers and peasantry were much more prosperous and the urban elites' living in the Mughal revenue system, for the latter were mostly impoverished. Waris Shah said:

The Jatts became rulers of the land and every place has its own governance. The aristocracy is ruined, the working class is refreshed [better off] and the land owners are blooming [with prosperity].

Waris shah was poor and his hometown was dominated by feudal pathans. According to Dr Manzur Ejaz,
"Waris Shah was born in Jandiala Sher Khan, Sheikhupura, a small town about 40 kilometers from Lahore. The town was dominated by Afghan Pathans who were the major landowners. It seems from circumstantial evidence that Waris Shah's father, Gulshar Shah, must have been living a modest life as the town's religious teacher or "paish imam". The absence of any family monastery and the poor condition of Waris Shah's grave till the 1960s shows that his family was not rich. Further, his documented wandering in the Sahiwal-Pakpattan area and his choice of Malka Hans's mosque also shows that his family was unable to support an unemployed poet."

Waris Shah has not written much about his hometown's suffering but he lamented the plundering of Kasur which was then highest seat of learning and he was educated there himself.

From the entire country of Punjab I am extremely saddened about Kasur (Pathan colony of Kasur was plundered by sikhs in may 1763, they were allied with abdali and were facing constant invasions from sikhs, why waris didnt use word kuttian for sikhs?)

History: This wanting world by Dr Manzur Ejaz

@haj9211, @Multani, @Shabaz Sharif, @Shahmir kashmir

 

[Multani]

It seems to me that waris shah was supporter of Sikh misals and disliked feudal set up. Dr Manzur Ejaz in his article writes,
"During Waris Shah's lifetime not only was the Delhi thrown rotated among many incompetent rulers, but Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas were constantly ruling Punjab and North India. On top of that, the Sikh guerilla movement led by sections of poor Jatts was establishing misals (territories comprised of a few districts or smaller units) in the entire region. On a practical level, the Mughal empire's hold in Punjab had come to an end, the local Sikh misal chiefs were providing security to villages and towns for a small fee in comparison to the Mughal rulers' taking of half or one-third of the crop. Consequently, the farmers and peasantry were much more prosperous and the urban elites' living in the Mughal revenue system, for the latter were mostly impoverished. Waris Shah said:

The Jatts became rulers of the land and every place has its own governance. The aristocracy is ruined, the working class is refreshed [better off] and the land owners are blooming [with prosperity].

Waris shah was poor and his hometown was dominated by feudal pathans. According to Dr Manzur Ejaz,
"Waris Shah was born in Jandiala Sher Khan, Sheikhupura, a small town about 40 kilometers from Lahore. The town was dominated by Afghan Pathans who were the major landowners. It seems from circumstantial evidence that Waris Shah's father, Gulshar Shah, must have been living a modest life as the town's religious teacher or "paish imam". The absence of any family monastery and the poor condition of Waris Shah's grave till the 1960s shows that his family was not rich. Further, his documented wandering in the Sahiwal-Pakpattan area and his choice of Malka Hans's mosque also shows that his family was unable to support an unemployed poet."

Waris Shah has not written much about his hometown's suffering but he lamented the plundering of Kasur which was then highest seat of learning and he was educated there himself.

From the entire country of Punjab I am extremely saddened about Kasur (Pathan colony of Kasur was plundered by sikhs in may 1763, they were allied with abdali and were facing constant invasions from sikhs, why waris didnt use word kuttian for sikhs?)

History: This wanting world by Dr Manzur Ejaz

@haj9211, @Multani, @Shabaz Sharif, @Shahmir kashmir

Don't get stuck on words. These records are mostly biased by Sikhs, orientalists, and perennialists like manzur ejaz. They want Muslims to believe Sufis were not Muslims following Shariat.

What does his family being rich and the grave being in poor condition [ which it is not ] have in common. Nothing.
Hazrat Waris Shah is taken care of by Sufis, not family.

Kasur was not the highest centre of learning. It were other cities in Punjab like Multan, Bhikki Shareef, Kasur was one prosperous state.

 

[ghoul]

It seems to me that waris shah was supporter of Sikh misals and disliked feudal set up. Dr Manzur Ejaz in his article writes,
"During Waris Shah's lifetime not only was the Delhi thrown rotated among many incompetent rulers, but Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas were constantly ruling Punjab and North India. On top of that, the Sikh guerilla movement led by sections of poor Jatts was establishing misals (territories comprised of a few districts or smaller units) in the entire region. On a practical level, the Mughal empire's hold in Punjab had come to an end, the local Sikh misal chiefs were providing security to villages and towns for a small fee in comparison to the Mughal rulers' taking of half or one-third of the crop. Consequently, the farmers and peasantry were much more prosperous and the urban elites' living in the Mughal revenue system, for the latter were mostly impoverished. Waris Shah said:

The Jatts became rulers of the land and every place has its own governance. The aristocracy is ruined, the working class is refreshed [better off] and the land owners are blooming [with prosperity].

Waris shah was poor and his hometown was dominated by feudal pathans. According to Dr Manzur Ejaz,
"Waris Shah was born in Jandiala Sher Khan, Sheikhupura, a small town about 40 kilometers from Lahore. The town was dominated by Afghan Pathans who were the major landowners. It seems from circumstantial evidence that Waris Shah's father, Gulshar Shah, must have been living a modest life as the town's religious teacher or "paish imam". The absence of any family monastery and the poor condition of Waris Shah's grave till the 1960s shows that his family was not rich. Further, his documented wandering in the Sahiwal-Pakpattan area and his choice of Malka Hans's mosque also shows that his family was unable to support an unemployed poet."

Waris Shah has not written much about his hometown's suffering but he lamented the plundering of Kasur which was then highest seat of learning and he was educated there himself.

From the entire country of Punjab I am extremely saddened about Kasur (Pathan colony of Kasur was plundered by sikhs in may 1763, they were allied with abdali and were facing constant invasions from sikhs, why waris didnt use word kuttian for sikhs?)

History: This wanting world by Dr Manzur Ejaz

@haj9211, @Multani, @Shabaz Sharif, @Shahmir kashmir

Kasuri Pathans have a dark history. They labelled even Baba Bhulle Shah a heretic, and denied him an islamic funeral. And Punjabis call Pakhtuns pathans because the Pakhtuns of Kasur, and hindko pakhtuns, all call themselves Pathans.

abey champa,

1) Punjabis is not a caste,
2)Punjabis can be baniya too, those who put sheikhs in front of the name are baniyas only(buniessmen)

3) Pakhtun is not a caste
4) Pakthuns can be baniya too.


The problem with you people is you people cannot differentiate between caste, people of region , culture and religion. Confused ho tum.

I assure you that my knowledge exceeds yours by a couple of folds. Don't stress yourself. You just don't use terms likes "fools" and "confused" for others. This topic is beyond your comprehension.

And no, khatri is not a baniya. Baniya is an urdu/hindi term for selfish, desi jew haha. I would have used the term "bhaiya" to offend you, but since that term is used for urdu speaking muhajirs by some racists, I abstained from using it.

 

[Butchcassidy]

It seems to me that waris shah was supporter of Sikh misals and disliked feudal set up. Dr Manzur Ejaz in his article writes,
"During Waris Shah's lifetime not only was the Delhi thrown rotated among many incompetent rulers, but Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas were constantly ruling Punjab and North India. On top of that, the Sikh guerilla movement led by sections of poor Jatts was establishing misals (territories comprised of a few districts or smaller units) in the entire region. On a practical level, the Mughal empire's hold in Punjab had come to an end, the local Sikh misal chiefs were providing security to villages and towns for a small fee in comparison to the Mughal rulers' taking of half or one-third of the crop. Consequently, the farmers and peasantry were much more prosperous and the urban elites' living in the Mughal revenue system, for the latter were mostly impoverished. Waris Shah said:

The Jatts became rulers of the land and every place has its own governance. The aristocracy is ruined, the working class is refreshed [better off] and the land owners are blooming [with prosperity].

Waris shah was poor and his hometown was dominated by feudal pathans. According to Dr Manzur Ejaz,
"Waris Shah was born in Jandiala Sher Khan, Sheikhupura, a small town about 40 kilometers from Lahore. The town was dominated by Afghan Pathans who were the major landowners. It seems from circumstantial evidence that Waris Shah's father, Gulshar Shah, must have been living a modest life as the town's religious teacher or "paish imam". The absence of any family monastery and the poor condition of Waris Shah's grave till the 1960s shows that his family was not rich. Further, his documented wandering in the Sahiwal-Pakpattan area and his choice of Malka Hans's mosque also shows that his family was unable to support an unemployed poet."

Waris Shah has not written much about his hometown's suffering but he lamented the plundering of Kasur which was then highest seat of learning and he was educated there himself.

From the entire country of Punjab I am extremely saddened about Kasur (Pathan colony of Kasur was plundered by sikhs in may 1763, they were allied with abdali and were facing constant invasions from sikhs, why waris didnt use word kuttian for sikhs?)

History: This wanting world by Dr Manzur Ejaz

@haj9211, @Multani, @Shabaz Sharif, @Shahmir kashmir

Maybe because he was a punjabi nationalist, not that there is anything wrong with that. Is there ?

 

[Screambowl]

And no, khatri is not a baniya. Baniya is an urdu/hindi term for selfish, desi jew haha. I would have used the term "bhaiya" to offend you, but since that term is used for urdu speaking muhajirs by some racists, I abstained from using it.

you don't be a fool please. Pakistani Punjabis only use such terms and we also use such terms in India , bhaiya, baniya ..so don't teach us. You have learnt all these things after watching Hindi movies. lol.. Shame on you, that you don't even speak your own zuban at home.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

It seems to me that waris shah was supporter of Sikh misals and disliked feudal set up. Dr Manzur Ejaz in his article writes,
"During Waris Shah's lifetime not only was the Delhi thrown rotated among many incompetent rulers, but Ahmad Shah Abdali and Marhattas were constantly ruling Punjab and North India. On top of that, the Sikh guerilla movement led by sections of poor Jatts was establishing misals (territories comprised of a few districts or smaller units) in the entire region. On a practical level, the Mughal empire's hold in Punjab had come to an end, the local Sikh misal chiefs were providing security to villages and towns for a small fee in comparison to the Mughal rulers' taking of half or one-third of the crop. Consequently, the farmers and peasantry were much more prosperous and the urban elites' living in the Mughal revenue system, for the latter were mostly impoverished. Waris Shah said:

The Jatts became rulers of the land and every place has its own governance. The aristocracy is ruined, the working class is refreshed [better off] and the land owners are blooming [with prosperity].

Waris shah was poor and his hometown was dominated by feudal pathans. According to Dr Manzur Ejaz,
"Waris Shah was born in Jandiala Sher Khan, Sheikhupura, a small town about 40 kilometers from Lahore. The town was dominated by Afghan Pathans who were the major landowners. It seems from circumstantial evidence that Waris Shah's father, Gulshar Shah, must have been living a modest life as the town's religious teacher or "paish imam". The absence of any family monastery and the poor condition of Waris Shah's grave till the 1960s shows that his family was not rich. Further, his documented wandering in the Sahiwal-Pakpattan area and his choice of Malka Hans's mosque also shows that his family was unable to support an unemployed poet."

Waris Shah has not written much about his hometown's suffering but he lamented the plundering of Kasur which was then highest seat of learning and he was educated there himself.

From the entire country of Punjab I am extremely saddened about Kasur (Pathan colony of Kasur was plundered by sikhs in may 1763, they were allied with abdali and were facing constant invasions from sikhs, why waris didnt use word kuttian for sikhs?)

History: This wanting world by Dr Manzur Ejaz

@haj9211, @Multani, @Shabaz Sharif, @Shahmir kashmir

As i told you before Waris Shah was not hater of any group, so stop this nonsense of cherry picking history. Few quotes of Waris Shah on punjabi jats i found on net.

jat jed na koee gvar ditha jiven yar na koee sipahian da. No one can surpass a Jat in barbarity and no one is the friend of policemen. jat choh da chuha bna lande chale vas na malkan saeean da. Jats can distort the meaning of a hill-stream into a mouse, which makes it impossible for the authorities (to get the truth out of Jats).

"Waris Shah Etbar Na Janiye Bai , Kaul Suniyar Jatt Kasai Da"
"O Waris Shah never trust the word of goldsmiths , Jats and butchers."

See Waris didn't spare punjabi jats either. Anyway another quote which was in favor of jats,

''Waris des de jat surdar hoi, ghar ghar vich navin sarkar hoi. The Jats of land have risen and every place has its own governance. ''

Mughal croocks used to steal half of or more wheat as taxes, but they also payed back by becoming kammi after fall of Mughal empire so it doesnt matter now. Waris Shah poems make sense, he was also against sikh misls internal fightings. Couple of centuries before that another ghairatmand Punjabi Dullah Bhatti rajput used to fight Mughals because of unjust taxes.

And the reason Waris Shah have not written much about home suffering is because there is nothing to write about, it was not dominated by pathans.

 

[Gaberi]

If you're talking about Khiljis and Lodhis, then their rule in Punjab was only on cards. Their whole reign was marred by Khokhar attacks and rebellions. These Khokhars also joined Shah Khwarezm against Genghis Khan, and allied with the later mongols. One Khokhar chieftain even defeated a mongol incursion. Khilji wanted to punish the Khokhars, and killed a large amount of them, but they weren't destroyed. The came back. After Timurlane's exit, they even sacked and pillaged Lahore once and wanted to march on Delhi but were defeated by sultanate. Sher Shah wanted to march against Gakhars, but was advised against going into their homeland by his advisers as it was considered to dangerous due to hills and mountains.

And before Sikh rise, most of Punjab was ruled by rajput jagirdars. Even east Punjab was held by muslim bhatti rajputs, who had a hereditary feud with SIkh rajas of Patiala. They were finally defeated and most muslim rajputs expelled from east Punjab. The Ravi Chenab area was ruled by a muslim manj rajput jagirdar, and he was defeated by Ranjit Singh. Among the Jatts, Chatthas of Gujranwala were the jagirdars. They were centimeters close to actually killing an adolescent Ranjit Singh, when a muslim chattha charged at Ranjit Singh's elephant, and climbed up his Howdah, but was speared to death before he could strike Ranjit Singh. This Chattha jagirdar family was aided by Abdali. Then there was a Gujjar jagirdari, chieftainship in Gujrat. When the Chib raja of Bhimber princely state was defeated by the Sikh army, he took asylum in the Gujrat's gujjar chieftain. Nawabzada Ghazanfar Ali Gul is the present head of that Gujjar famiy.

BTW I heard that in Swat, the Gujjars and Yousafzais don't get along. Is it true? I had a conversation with a Gujjar from Mansehra, and he said that in Mansehra the Pakhtuns and Gujjars intermarry. What about Swat? And also, I heard the Akhund of Swat was a gujjar sufi dervaish.
.

All what you are saying is true but pathans are no different than Punjabis they are also as humans as anyone else ..... I am from Mansehra so let me correct you Pakhtuns dont marry Gujjars and vice-versa and same is the case in Swat and elsewhere .... Its not the racial thing just the class so wherever they get equal socially and economically they intermarry... Remember KP is a semi tribal society so everyone wants to marry within his/her own tribe whether gujjar pathan or syed as a general rule.
Mansehra has more of this tribal division and same is the case with Swat but in plains like Mardan whole towns like Gujjar Garhi, Bakhshaali and Gujarat also Takkar have been pashtunized due to intermarriages between Yusufzais Akhunkhels and Gujjars. The sad thing is what two sides are trying to prove is one is superior to other which is bad if I have problem with my Gujjars its due to litigation im into with them due to tenancy act similarly on the borders of KP Kot Najibullah Sardars Kathana Gujjars are the biggest landowners just like Pakhtuns so they have problems with Gujjars and Pakhtuns both.
I have been reading and searching for my ancestry for quite some time I have found no difference as far as blood line of these people is concerned and now has been proven by different DNA analysis also so please dont get into this.
Let me tell you one thing more Aftab Sherpao is also a Gujjar but wont declare it because he will loose his centuries old affiliation and that would be a new start for him... Else nothing at all.

Now about Waris Shah if he didnt like Afghan rule or not I guess no sane person would like a rule as tyrannical as it was in those days whether Afghan or Mughal or Ranjit Singh or Brits......... We cannt tolerate one fabricated Police Muqaballa just imagine towers of skulls and women and children being sold.... I guess we shouldnt even talk about these things and pray we dont come across anything like this else just gather the courage to go to Afghanistan or ask any Afghan refugee how it feels like.