Af-Pak - Destined For Conflict

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

My brother 120 years is a very short period in our history and i agree if we held a referendum today they will choose not to join with Pakistan but with time if we show them the benefits of merging they will. lets take a look at Britain. For centuries the English and the Scotts and Welshmen fought and massacred each other but now referendum after referendum and the Scotts are voting to be part of Britain. Lets take a look at the USA, they even had a long and bloody civil war between the Northern and Southern states, but today they are stronger because they are united. They are united because their is fairness in their system. I hope Afghans and Pakistanis will realize this one day.

Reunification is the only solution.

120 years might be short, but the changes aren't small. & aiming for English-Scottish deal isnt really mouth watering either. 45% voted to leave that was before brexit. Many voted to stay in UK becuse that would mean they can stay in EU.

Still even if we consider merging, we need to stop fighting first to show them advantages of willingly merging, & the only way that is possible is when you have peace & no ill will against each other, & that will happen only if the border is officially re-recognized by Kabul & both state aren't at each others throats over it.

 

[Imad.Khan]

120 years might be short, but the changes aren't small. & aiming for English-Scottish deal isnt really mouth watering either. 45% voted to leave that was before brexit. Many voted to stay in UK becuse that would mean they can stay in EU.

Still even if we consider merging, we need to stop fighting first to show them advantages of willingly merging, & the only way that is possible is when you have peace & no ill will against each other, & that will happen only if the border is officially recognized & both state aren't at each others throats over it.

I agree with your comment. It will take time and will require alot of hard work but hopefully one day we will be united.

 

[CriticalThought]

The biggest problem is Pakistan's desire to essentially rule over Afghanistan. Period.

Our only desire is to rid Afghanistan of US and Indian influence. Period.

 

[spinghar renacido]

bhittani bacha, better if you should have done a proper research regarding the durand line and Afghan successive government stance. what you have posted are facebooki material, none of these points are Afghan government stances.
you are even ignorant of the fact that recognizing the durand line and recognizing the durand line as a border are two different things vary by a vast degree.
Afghan government don't recognize the durand line treaty now, but if we do it is still not like the line become a border. we should then start respecting the original treaty clause which are more loose than even today the line is treated. let me give you another proposal for your research. start digging whether FATA is legally part of pakistan or not?

 

[Imad.Khan]

let me give you another proposal for your research. start digging whether FATA is legally part of pakistan or not?

Save us all the trouble and just tell us

 

[Husnainshah]

Not sure where you got that from and sounds like you didn't even read the article. We have no desire to rule over Afghanistan, if we wanted to we would have invaded Afghanistan in the 60s when they attacked Bajaur or when the soviets were defeated or when the Taliban were in power, but we didn't. in saying that some of us which includes me what Afghanistan and Pakistan to become one.

Well, if you're not even sure what I'm talking about, you've no business on this thread. I could care less what a Pashtun from Islamabad thinks about Pakistan's Afghan Policy. And who is this 'we' you're talking about? When I said Pakistan wants to rule Afghanistan, I meant the Pakistani Establishment, Punjabis to be precise. And by rule I meant, indirect rule, Puppet Regime.

As for invading Afghanistan, look no further than Soviet Union and The U.S. And if you want an example of a Pakistani invasion, look no further than East Pakistan.

Our only desire is to rid Afghanistan of US and Indian influence. Period.

Pakistan is one of the primary reasons for U.S. has a significant role in Afghanistan to begin with.

 

[spinghar renacido]

look at your assumptions and points calling it afghan government arguments
durnad line was a treaty between two states, and their was no guaranters, in past many treatise regarding both state sphere of influence was made, ratified and declared null. pakistan inherited the treaty under Vienna conventions, but there is no stopping if one signatory wish to exit unilateraly as geo political scenario changes. Afghanistan is not breaking any single UN law by exiting the treaty.
Fact is neither there was any border between Afghanistan and British and neither pakistan has any border with Afghanistan, only sphere of influence if the original treaty is kept in tact.
under 1947 independence act pakistan inherited NWFP from British on it's west side not even FATA as it is clearly written under section 7 c of independence act in which British declared all the treatise null and void with FATA people, and left them on their own.

 

[Kambojaric]

Good read and my view essentially as well. The problem goes back to the very core of Afghanistan's identity and their inability to reconcile with reality. Pakistan could have been a warm friendly neighbour, but due to ultra nationalism Afghanistan has opted for the route of hostility. Why? Because successive generations of their children have been brainwashed by the idea of "greater Afghanistan". Unless their is a shift in the country's identity paradigm they will keep shooting themselves in the foot, since the 2000s arent like the 1700s anymore.

Today the country with a mixture of stronger economy, competent armed forces and greater diplomatic clout wins. Afghanistan due its own fractured and decentralized nature is bound to fail in such a scenario against its neighbors. However policymakers in Kabul rather than face this identity issue head on have decided to hide behind populist chest thumping rhetoric of foreign conspiracies against the country. Ghani we hoped was a breath of fresh air but a) he too is incompetent or b) Afghanistan today has become so decentralized than no central authority can control the country anymore or c) a mixture of the above two, has resulted in Afghanistan falling further and further down the drain.

I see no hope for a country where a murderous warlord is the vice president, and where individuals holding titles such as "the butcher of Kabul" are part of the government. They will keep fighting each other for the foreseeable future. What we have to make sure is that we do not get dragged down by them. Recent steps taken by Islamabad although cold according to some will achieve exactly this purpose.

 

[Imad.Khan]

Well, if you're not even sure what I'm talking about, you've no business on this thread. I could care less what a Pashtun from Islamabad thinks about Pakistan's Afghan Policy. And who is this 'we' you're talking about? When I said Pakistan wants to rule Afghanistan, I meant the Pakistani Establishment, Punjabis to be precise. And by rule I meant, indirect rule, Puppet Regime.

As for invading Afghanistan, look no further than Soviet Union and The U.S. And if you want an example of a Pakistani invasion, look no further than East Pakistan.




Pakistan is one of the primary reasons for U.S. has a significant role in Afghanistan to begin with.

I am Pukhtun from Karachi and from your comment i feel hatred for Pukhtuns and Punjabis. You have choosen not to display your flag, so either you are Indian or if you are from Pakistan then you must be a MQM loving Muhagir........am i right?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I am Pukhtun from Karachi and from your comment i feel hatred for Pukhtuns and Punjabis. You have choosen not to display your flag, so either you are Indian or if you are from Pakistan then you must be a MQM loving Muhagir........am i right?

I think he's a MQM/altafi troll.

 

[Imad.Khan]

I think he's a MQM/altafi troll.

I think so too, coz i have faced quite alot of people like him in Karachi. The funniest thing is that these MQM people tell me to go back to KPK, when my family moved to Karachi way before Pakistan's independence, while these people came after independence. I have no problem with Muhajirs its just MQM lovers that i hate

 

[spinghar renacido]

1947 india independence act, article 7/1 c clearly reads (regarding tribal areas)
"There lapse also any treaties or agreements in force at the date of the passing of this Act between His Majesty and any persons having authority in the tribal areas, any obligations of His Majesty existing at that date to any such persons or with respect to the tribal areas, and all powers, rights, authority or jurisdiction exercisable at that date by His Majesty in or in relation to the tribal areas by treaty, grant, usage, sufferance or otherwise"
which shown FATA people gained independence after 1947, but since due to lack of central authority which pakistan took advantage of and made their own constitutional arrangements unilaterally regarding tribals which highly remains an ambiguous and disputed subject between the tribes themselves and Pakistan and between Pakistan and Afghanistan.
to sum it up neither durand line is off the table and neither FATA legally belong to pakistan. their is going to be tough questions and toughs days are ahesd once Afghan take their destiny in their own hands. bhittani baacha your lame article is not going to help anyone.
sada haq itte raq

 

[Osiris]

The only solution for Pakistan is to use the next war as an excuse to attack and capture the Pashtun areas, and carve out the Pashtunistan province that is long desired. With the Pashtuns united and happy, Pashtunistan will be a veritable iron wall against any advances by the rest of Afghanistan.

From here, a proxy war should be enough to rid Afghanistan of the scourge of foreign puppets it faces.

After that, our Afghan brothers can be our protectorate. We can provide them our nuclear umbrella, they can provide us strategic depth.

I am all for an autonomous Afghan government in the long term as long as its not installed by America or India.

The resulting Pak/Af will be an absolute nightmare for India to deal with. Imagine a corps of battle-hardened, courageous Afghans posted on the borders with India. India will truly understand the meaning of 'surgical strikes' and ceasefire violations then.

IS Pakistan ready to give up one fourth of its land to form this new country called Pashtunistan ?

Because Pashtunistan, if it ever comes to fruition will encompasse both Afghanistan's Pashtun majority region as well as Pakistan's .

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

bhittani bacha, better if you should have done a proper research regarding the durand line and Afghan successive government stance. what you have posted are facebooki material, none of these points are Afghan government stances.

So what is afghan govts stance ? Do you consider Durand line a permanent border or not?

Not that it matters ...

you are even ignorant of the fact that recognizing the durand line and recognizing the durand line as a border are two different things vary by a vast degree.
Afghan government don't recognize the durand line treaty now, but if we do it is still not like the line become a border. we should then start respecting the original treaty clause which are more loose than even today the line is treated. let me give you another proposal for your research. start digging whether FATA is legally part of pakistan or not?

How are his facts FB material ? Did Afghanistan not invade Pak territory multiple times ? Did Afghanistan not create pashtunistan drama (which failed)... Was KHAAD not involved in terrorism in Pak? Didn't Afghanistan not recognise Pakistan in 47? Did afghan govt not launch scud missiles at Pak in the past?

Federally administered tribal areas are an autonomous part of Pakistan... Governed directly by the federal govt... Had they not been a part of Pak .. Pak flags wouldn't be flying in FATA .. Neither had PAF bombed afghan Askaris during the invasion of Bajaur.

 

[Asfandyar Bhittani]

look at your assumptions and points calling it afghan government arguments
durnad line was a treaty between two states, and their was no guaranters, in past many treatise regarding both state sphere of influence was made, ratified and declared null. pakistan inherited the treaty under Vienna conventions, but there is no stopping if one signatory wish to exit unilateraly as geo political scenario changes. Afghanistan is not breaking any single UN law by exiting the treaty.
Fact is neither there was any border between Afghanistan and British and neither pakistan has any border with Afghanistan, only sphere of influence if the original treaty is kept in tact.
under 2947 independence act pakistan inherited NWFP from British on it's west side not even FATA as it is clearly written under section 7 c of independence act in which British declared all the treatise null and void with FATA people, and left them on their own.

Having no guarantors doesnt mean one can pull out whenever mood strikes. Plus Pakistan doesn't care what Afghanistan thinks or believes.

Afghanistan broke the UN law when it crossed UN recognized border in 1960 & 61.

Fact is the border was demarcated from 1893 to 1896
The four commissions demarcated Seven different sections of the Durand Line from 1894 to 1896 as under:-

• Sir Richard Udny (British Side) and Sardar Ghulam Haider Khan (Afghan side) demarcated the border from Charkhao Pass (Chitral) upto Nawa Pass (Bajaur) via an agreement dated 9 April 1895. (Note: The region from Nawa Pass via Mohmand upto Sikaram peak remained disputed and was settled by the Rawalpindi Anglo-Afghan Agreement of 1919).
• J. Donald and Sardar Shireen Dil Khan demarcated the boundary from Sikaram peak to Laram peak (Tochi) via an agreement dated 21 November 1894.
• H.A Anderson with local Afghan Chiefs nominated by the Ameer demarcated two sections of the boundary; from Laram peak to Charkhil and onwards to Khwaja Khidr (Birmal) via two separate agreements both dated 15 April 1895.
• L. W. King with local Afghan Chiefs nominated by the Ameer demarcated the boundary from Khwaja Khidr to Domandi (Gomal) via an agreement dated 8 March 1895.
• A. H. McMahon with Sardar Gul Muhammad Khan demarcated the boundary from Domandi to New Chaman via an agreement dated 26 February 1895.
• A. H. McMahon with Sardar Muhammad Umar Khan demarcated the boundary from New Chaman to Koh-i-Malik Siah at the tri-junction with Iran via an agreemnt dated 13 May 1896.

And About FATA, you may want to read up on results of NWFP referendum & decisions of the Jirgas of FATA. But Then Again, i dont expect some one who starts the conversation with Bacha to understand.