A suggestion for peace in Afghanistan

[TheGreatMaratha]

If anything, pashtuns fare substantially better in Pakistan. Just ask our PM.

Agreed. Afghanistan is a mess and Pakistan is definitely better currently.

 

[Cygnus Black]

Durand Line is an unnatural boundary. The only end to this conflict is to fight it out: either we expand our influence westward till Herat, or they expand eastward till Attock. And the odds are stacked against them.

 

[Chakar The Great]

Sign an agreement that clearly accepts Eastern part of Durand-Line as sovereign part of Pakistan, and accept Durand Line as permanent divider of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
In addition to that, insure Pakistan, that you guys will never poke your nose in Pakistan's affairs again, and that, Afghanistan will never become a party against Pakistan(No matter how much India tries).

[/USER]

This is already stated official position of Pakistan. Who cares what few afghanis think. Durand line is permanent border period.

 

[fitpOsitive]

This is already stated official position of Pakistan. Who cares what few afghanis think. Durand line is permanent border period.

We need to come to some agreement, that both parties accept, and sign.

 

[TNT]

The target audience of this thread are Pakistanis and Afghanis.
Others may contribute, but please dont try to derail the discussion.

Since past many years, we are observing the bad situation in Afghanistan.
Afghanis blame that on Pakistan, may be they are right, but not completely.

Afghanistan became a party against Pakistan since inception. You guys voted against us in 1947. You murdered our first prime minister. You supported Al-Zulfiqar traitors, and then TTP and what not. After all that, Pakistan increased its muscle in Afghanistan, and the result is in front of you.

Now, you guys called for help from every beast and frog of the jungle. Did it help? Mark my words, it will not help. Whatsoever.

So here I want to suggest something, that you(Afghanis) might not be realizing, but that's actually does matter(and will work for sure).

Sign an agreement that clearly accepts Eastern part of Durand-Line as sovereign part of Pakistan, and accept Durand Line as permanent divider of Pakistan and Afghanistan.
In addition to that, insure Pakistan, that you guys will never poke your nose in Pakistan's affairs again, and that, Afghanistan will never become a party against Pakistan(No matter how much India tries).

Trust me, we, with the grace of Allah, can transform the landscape in Afghanistan, not in years, but in months.

We can really help you guys in transforming Afghanistan into a normal country.
But, first we need help and good intentions from your side.

We don't hate you, we are just cautious.
@Mangus Ortus Novem @Maarkhoor @waz @Irfan Baloch @PanzerKiel

I know a lot of afghans and grown up with them. I have recently been having same discussion with them. There clearly seems to be 2 views.
One majority refugees agree that this kand belongs to Pakistan and Afghanistan should accept durand line. They say this is just a stupid naara to fool ppl and that inside we all know and accept east of durand line as Pakistan.
The 2nd group are mostly online haters and mostly puppets. I dont expect anything from them as they arw fasaadis and actually search for new excuses of fasaad. How will they accept such an arrangement, they get paid for all that mess.
In my opinion once taliban take power again and if they managed to establish a balanced n stable regime then this issue can be settled.
Another point i would like to mention, if Afghanistan doesnt accept durand line and suddenly Pakistan also discards it then what would that mean? It will give us legitimacy to claim new border based on many excuses. Its immensely beneficial for Afghanistan to solve this issue.

 

[TNT]

My understanding is that when a sizable group of people have the superiority complex over others, things always remain problematic until unless there is a brute force used (something on similar lines to what Soviets 'Inferior Slavs' used upon the Nazi Germans 'Superior Aryans'). Afghan Pashtuns, at least their ruling and or elite classes, strongly believe that they are an 'Aryan Race' and/or 'the lost tribe of Israel'. They treat Pakistan as 'Punjabistan' and think very low of Punjabis (regardless of religion Islam, Sikhism, etc). I guess the humiliation brought by Sikh Empire still haunts them, and later the mass troops employed by Brits from Punjab. They still live in Abdali's era and want to gain the lost glory back!

Population of pashtuns in Afghanistan is 15 million while in Pakistan its 42 million. More than double of Afghanistan. How does that make them superior race? Pashtuns of Pakistan always stand with Pakistan and actually joined Pakistan by their free will. There is a whole history of wars between pashtuns east of durand line and west of it. The notion u described is being created in Afghanistan by likes of india, to keep the region destabalized. Decades of war, no education, no exposure and tribal society have made their population like donkeys, they need to be strictly handled by rulers like taliban. A taliban setup actually will help solve these issues.

 

[fitpOsitive]

I know a lot of afghans and grown up with them. I have recently been having same discussion with them. There clearly seems to be 2 views.
One majority refugees agree that this kand belongs to Pakistan and Afghanistan should accept durand line. They say this is just a stupid naara to fool ppl and that inside we all know and accept east of durand line as Pakistan.
The 2nd group are mostly online haters and mostly puppets. I dont expect anything from them as they arw fasaadis and actually search for new excuses of fasaad. How will they accept such an arrangement, they get paid for all that mess.
In my opinion once taliban take power again and if they managed to establish a balanced n stable regime then this issue can be settled.
Another point i would like to mention, if Afghanistan doesnt accept durand line and suddenly Pakistan also discards it then what would that mean? It will give us legitimacy to claim new border based on many excuses. Its immensely beneficial for Afghanistan to solve this issue.

In that case, we must annex Hazara and Pashtun belt. And leave all others alone.

 

[Dalit]

@Dante80 You want to learn about Afghan Pakistan relations? Read this discussion.

Your innocent Afghan brothers claim Pakistani territory. You do understand that Afghans are going to be booted out of Pakistan. Don't accuse Pakistan of kicking out innocent Afghans.

 

[Meengla]

Nobody agreed to what the British did in 1947; naturally everybody wanted more not less. The point is though that the language, rights, culture, development and unique identity of pashtuns is preserved on both sides of the Durand line. Pakistani pashtuns are equally proud as Afghan pashtuns. Hence there is no actual disenfranchisement and there should be no argument, except from trouble makers in Kabul and Peshawar. If anything, pashtuns fare substantially better in Pakistan. Just ask our PM.

Yes.
I don't know why Pakistanis insist on the demand for the Durand Line to be accepted as international border by Afghanistan??? Firstly, after a brief opposition by Afghanistan in 1947, the Durand Line is the accepted border by all countries of the world, Afghanistan notwithstanding. And it's been 70+ years like that. There is no dispute about that except for some impotent Afghan leaders. The Afghani claim over the D.L is just as absurd as some Russians wanting Alaska back!!
What the Afghans should actually worry about is that a prosperous Pakistan's Pashtun population may give an incentive to the Pashtuns on the Afghan side to really make the Durand Line irrelevant-- but for Pakistan's gain! Not possible? I think it is possible. MONEY talks globally!!

 

[Vapnope]

But I thought Afghans don't agree to the Durrand Line, right? How will it be some kind of a deal if you basically just propose your side of the bargain. I honestly didn't get you here

Sir, the bone of contention here is Durand line. Afghans believe that KPK was part of Afghanistan which Maharaja Ranjeet Singh captured from them (historically correct). When Britain took over India, Kashmir and KPK were part of India not Afghanistan and hence they divided both parts into Pakistan and India. Afghans started attacking Pakistan right after creation of Pakistan otherwise Pakistan had not started it.

Whatever happened after is continuation of hostility between the two countries. Iff Afghans accept Durand line things will become easier for them and for Pakistan as well.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

Yes.
I don't know why Pakistanis insist on the demand for the Durand Line to be accepted as international border by Afghanistan??? Firstly, after a brief opposition by Afghanistan in 1947, the Durand Line is the accepted border by all countries of the world, Afghanistan notwithstanding. And it's been 70+ years like that. There is no dispute about that except for some impotent Afghan leaders. The Afghani claim over the D.L is just as absurd as some Russians wanting Alaska back!!
What the Afghans should actually worry about is that a prosperous Pakistan's Pashtun population may give an incentive to the Pashtuns on the Afghan side to really make the Durand Line irrelevant-- but for Pakistan's gain! Not possible? I think it is possible. MONEY talks globally!!

Exactly. Very plausible. Pakistan could annex Afghanistan today and every Afghan pashtun would be thrilled to bits that they suddenly live in a relatively prosperous nation and the Durand line disappears - of course, this step is not in Pakistani interests as we don't want to inherit this basket case of a nation.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

Afghans need to firstly start confronting the British and americans for massacring unarmed Afghan civilians rather than always worrying about Pakistan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53597137

 

[Dalit]

Afghans need to firstly start confronting the British and americans for massacring unarmed Afghan civilians rather than always worrying about Pakistan:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-53597137

The Afghans won't do that. The Americans and Brits are their masters.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

The Afghans won't do that. The Americans and Brits are their masters.

I thought they were meant to be fearless and be able to subdue superpowers?......

 

[Dalit]

Solutions.... before the Problem definition... remain... 'subjective'.

Fencing is ongoing till Persian border.

Kabulistan has killed more Afghans in the past 40+years than anyone else... Aghans need to see it ....

Only Afghans can do this... and make Kabulistan Afghanistan once more... without Bazari Kabulis ....

For now Patience and Vigilence against Kabulistan is the only sane policy...and we must continue with it.

It is imperative to remember that tribes on the other side of the Line are related to us by blood as well...

Cultivation.

Our Prime Focus needs to be Economy. Economy. Economy.

In parallel integeration of Afghanistan Economically into PakEconomy is imperative.

Understanding the Problem and Breaking-it-Down is Half of the Solution.

The other Half is Implementing the Solution in such a way that it doesn't birth new problems.

Pak Statecraft needs to come out of Appoligistic Paradigm and start looking at the World around it and beyond.

Pakistan is The Heartland!

Fencing was need of the hour, but not the main solution. We need a permanent fix.

We already know that Afghans are a stubborn tribal people. They won't back down from their claims. Pakistan has wrongly accommodated Afghan wish to keep this porous border open for people to cross over. Today whenever Pakistan shuts down the crossing points due to security or other reasons, the Afghans falsely accuse Pakistan of depriving families from meeting each other. Pakistan should never have compromised and appeased the Afghans from the start. The border should have always remained shut.

We cannot ignore this threat anymore. Afghans are resorting to cheap terror tactics with the help of India and most likely the US. Pakistan needs to make a very clear statement to Afghanistan and particularly the US. I mention the US because its forces and generals are running the show in that country. The message should be clear and concise. Pakistan won't accept any negotiations on the Durand Line border. Afghans need to be reminded that this is an internationally recognized border area. If Afghans continue to agitate Pakistan, there will be consequences. Not just military, but also economic. Access to the border would be limited and even revoked.