A step in the wrong direction

[Jlaw]

So you could have made $1800 since 2013? That is not much, men, you can't have a decent living by doing this.

I would have posted a lot more. Not a living, just call it getting pay while bringing the Viets and Indians back to reality.

 

[Dungeness]

I would have posted a lot more. Not a living, just call it getting pay while bringing the Viets and Indians back to reality.

Nay, you are not going to accomplish that, it has something to do with their national psyche and their hatred towards China. Just call it having fun with them.

 

[Abacin]

Yeah...Because the Vietnamese communists had help from both France and the Chinese. The Vietnamese civil war created that partition. Do not deny that China entered Viet Nam with solely the intention of spreading communism.

China also entered Vietnam in Sino-French war in 1883-1885 to defend Vietnam independence.

As a Vietnamese descendant, you need to learn more about Vietnam, not to be brainwashed with hatred of China and communism. North Vietnam had been a province of China for nearly 1000 years until Tang dynasty. In Tang Dynasty, the main enemy was Turks and the expansion was in the West. China had put kazakhstan and Afganistan into a province in Tang Dynasty, but still let Vietnam go independent and encouraged Vietnam to expand Southward as an expansion of Chinese civilization. Then North Vietnam conquered Champa and part of Cambodia which formed South Vietnam.

Therefore North Vietnam has much more strong connections to China than South Vietnam. Chinese cultures are the culture used by their ancestors for North Vietnamese while Chinese cultures are forced on them for South Vietnamese. While North Vietnamese are usually pro-China while South Vietnamese hate China. When VCP is in charge by North Vietnamese, Sino-Vietnam relation is very good; when it is in charge by South Vietnamese , Sino-Vietnam relation can be very bad, such as Chinese exclusion movement in post Ho Chi Ming until its end in 1986 with a North Vietnamese leader.

China always stays with North Vietnam no matter what ideology it is. Cultural background and blood connections play crucial roles.

Just last year South Vietnamese had an anti-China movement while North Vietnamese remain calm. Just like SCS, North Vietnamese treat it as competition among brothers for the ancestors' wealth while South Vietnamese treat it as another invasion by China.

North Vietnamese treat SCS as competition among brothers for ancestors' wealth, and strongly object to external interference; while South Vietnamese treat it another Chinese invasion and can do anything for it, including giving sovereignty to USA and damaging Vietnamese economy. It is very easy to tell Vietnamese attitudes as long as you know where they origin from.

There is a deep rift in Vietnam due to the attitude toward Chinese culture. North Vietnamese like to learn Chinese, Chinese Culture, write Chinese characters, work, study, travel and do business in Southern China. They feel Southern China just like home of relatives. But for South Vietnamese, they hate China, they hate Chinese cultures, they are strongly pro-West and pro-Japan. China invest deeply in North Vietnam while USA and Japan invest heavily in South Vietnam. This will further difference among North and South.

 

[Sanchez]

France was defeated in Europe, so what else can a colonial government do but to surrender to the Japanese ? But this is nothing more than a feeble attempt at distraction.


Ho had no authority to do so. He was not representative of the Viets.


Legality had nothing to do with it since Ho was not authorized by anyone, least of all by the Vietnamese people, to make any treaty. But you should really stay out of the Vietnam War discussion since you are wrong about this fact.

Ho–Sainteny agreement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ho Chi Minh was the leader of the Viet Minh.

Invoking legality was a hilarious attempt to salvage face for you since it is clear you did not know of the Ho-Sainteny Agreement.

In sum, the cause of the Vietnam War came from two sources: China and France.


China had no obligations to do so.


So was the US and the US was fully behind the idea of booting France out of Indochina. Chiang Kai-shek agreed. And there was no way Mao was ignorant of this consensus since Mao had allies inside the Nationalists. In sum, Mao knew what the US would do to Indochina -- UN trusteeship towards independence.


I brought up treaties only as a question as to why China meddled in Viet Nam. If you feel that ideological alignment should be and must be enough for countries to get involved in the affairs of other countries -- say so.


Again...Ho and the Viet Minh had nothing to hold over China's head. If you are wiling to blame US for Iraq's current mess, then in the same logic, we can blame China for the Vietnam War.

If Hu was not authorized anything he did was illegal. Hu got recognition from the French that Democratic Republic of Vietnam is a free country. You are the Viet version of Chinese Nationalists (now Taiwanese). Your "evidence and knowledge" do not change the fact: Vietnam's national day is Sept 2, since 1945.

China recognized Vietnam shortly after Mao took over China in 1950. Anything China did was upon requests of rightful government of Vietnam. There is one point I may agree with you, that Chinese really should have not done the support given to the Viets in the Vietnam war. It was not worth it.

I'll leave Vietnam war for yourself. No more comments.

 

[gambit]

If Hu was not authorized anything he did was illegal.

There were no laws to approve or disapprove of what Ho or anyone did. What Ho did was simply wrong. There were other nationalists who had different ideas on how to achieve independence for the Viets. Ho did not want to work with them. He bypassed them.

Hu got recognition from the French that Democratic Republic of Vietnam is a free country.

Ho betrayed Viet Nam to the French via the Ho-Sainteny Agreement, which you were ignorant of. France was in a weak position to take back Indochina and they knew it. That was why they made a secret deal with the Viet Minh. France knew that the Viet Minh would betray them as well, but the desire to recapture Indochina made them overconfident that they could handle the country.

Ho and France slaughtered some of the other Viet nationalists, drove some southward, and oppressed the rest. Then the Viet Minh with China's assist turned against the French occupation. The Viet Minh suppress as much mention of the Ho-Sainteny Agreement as possible in the north and any knowledge of that deal were open in South Viet Nam. That suppression is successful enough that YOU did not know about it.

Face it, son. Now that you know of how the Vietnam War began, whatever you think you know is now tainted -- with the truth.

You are the Viet version of Chinese Nationalists (now Taiwanese). Your "evidence and knowledge" do not change the fact: Vietnam's national day is Sept 2, since 1945.

This is meaningless. The Viets can call Christmas as independence day for all I care. The evidence is clear, hat without France and China, the Vietnam War would 99.999% NOT have happened. There would be no US bombers, Agent Orange, the My Lai Massacre, and partition of the country. If not Sept 2, 1945, it would be a later date but there would have been no bloodshed. But what the hey...Since Mao never gave a hoot about his fellow Chinese, why should he gave any care to the Viets ? As long as communism is propagated, no matter how much of a disaster that was in his own country, why should Viet Nam matter ?

China recognized Vietnam shortly after Mao took over China in 1950. Anything China did was upon requests of rightful government of Vietnam.

Rightful ? Utter BS. If you call the North Vietnamese government 'rightful', then so was the South Vietnamese government equally 'rightful'.

There is one point I may agree with you, that Chinese really should have not done the support given to the Viets in the Vietnam war. It was not worth it.

China should have stayed out of Viet Nam from the start. This is what you and your fellow Chinese consistently refused to face.

Tell me: What was wrong with the UN trusteeship independence plan that Mao must destroy that plan ?

If any of you answered that it was out of the need for a buffer state, etc...etc...then you have just given tacit approval for the US to use the same argument. That means ALL of your criticisms about US involvement in SE Asia is null and void.

I'll leave Vietnam war for yourself. No more comments.

At least you learned something other than what the Party spoon fed you all these yrs. Good thing this Internet, eh ?

 

[dichoi]

China also entered Vietnam in Sino-French war in 1883-1885 to defend Vietnam independence.

As a Vietnamese descendant, you need to learn more about Vietnam, not to be brainwashed with hatred of China and communism. North Vietnam had been a province of China for nearly 1000 years until Tang dynasty. In Tang Dynasty, the main enemy was Turks and the expansion was in the West. China had put kazakhstan and Afganistan into a province in Tang Dynasty, but still let Vietnam go independent and encouraged Vietnam to expand Southward as an expansion of Chinese civilization. Then North Vietnam conquered Champa and part of Cambodia which formed South Vietnam.

Therefore North Vietnam has much more strong connections to China than South Vietnam. Chinese cultures are the culture used by their ancestors for North Vietnamese while Chinese cultures are forced on them for South Vietnamese. While North Vietnamese are usually pro-China while South Vietnamese hate China. When VCP is in charge by North Vietnamese, Sino-Vietnam relation is very good; when it is in charge by South Vietnamese , Sino-Vietnam relation can be very bad, such as Chinese exclusion movement in post Ho Chi Ming until its end in 1986 with a North Vietnamese leader.

China always stays with North Vietnam no matter what ideology it is. Cultural background and blood connections play crucial roles.

Just last year South Vietnamese had an anti-China movement while North Vietnamese remain calm. Just like SCS, North Vietnamese treat it as competition among brothers for the ancestors' wealth while South Vietnamese treat it as another invasion by China.

North Vietnamese treat SCS as competition among brothers for ancestors' wealth, and strongly object to external interference; while South Vietnamese treat it another Chinese invasion and can do anything for it, including giving sovereignty to USA and damaging Vietnamese economy. It is very easy to tell Vietnamese attitudes as long as you know where they origin from.

There is a deep rift in Vietnam due to the attitude toward Chinese culture. North Vietnamese like to learn Chinese, Chinese Culture, write Chinese characters, work, study, travel and do business in Southern China. They feel Southern China just like home of relatives. But for South Vietnamese, they hate China, they hate Chinese cultures, they are strongly pro-West and pro-Japan. China invest deeply in North Vietnam while USA and Japan invest heavily in South Vietnam. This will further difference among North and South.

At the end, China had shaked hands with our enemy, it is true mentality of China.

 

[Abacin]

At the end, China had shaked hands with our enemy, it is true mentality of China.

Chinese culture treasures harmony. Turning an enemy into a friend is highly praised and considered as the highest achievement.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

That is under the instruction of gang of four. Pls do not twist history. All Chinese including Han suffer under gang of four during that era. Nothng to do with religion or minority. Fancy you use such a donkey years ago incident to prove your point? Can you use more latest example(after 2000)? Sorry, you can't. Cos the Hui muslim are happy with CCP.

Hui are a proud patriotic Chinese. @Syama Ayas

You are wrong, and your knowledge utterly wrong, if you think that Huis have any problem with their fellow Chinese.

I never claimed there are current ethnic tensions involving Hui minority.
Merely pointing to incident when Huis got into trouble with the CCP.

Although concerns do exist

Cable: 09BEIJING2734_a

They want to make disputes .At least in our school,the only distinguish is pork.They resist west threat with us.(At least they anti Christan :p)They r just ordinary Chinese.
Something that may discourage them:mainstream hui=Muslim Han

How can I make disputes when there is no Chinese members here of Uyghur or Hui ethnicity?

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

I never claimed there are current ethnic tensions involving Hui minority.
Merely pointing to incident when Huis got into trouble with the CCP.

Although concerns do exist

Cable: 09BEIJING2734_a



How can I make disputes when there is no Chinese members here of Uyghur or Hui ethnicity?

There is. @Hu Songshan is a Hui, and a proud Chinese. I assume that it is not his real name though, and he has chosen his online avatar after the great Hui scholar and nationalist Hu Songshan. Hu Songshan - Wikiwand

Also, you made it appear that it was an ethnic issue when its not. Everyone got into trouble with different factions of CCP during the Cultural Revolution. That has got nothing to do with religion or ethnicity.

 

[Obambam]

At the end, China had shaked hands with our enemy, it is true mentality of China.

Vietnam shook hands with American, Chinese and Russian enemies, so how do we best describe this mentality?

 

[CHN Bamboo]

How can I make disputes when there is no Chinese members here of Uyghur or Hui ethnicity?

Hu Songshan is,and I'm not pure Han,some other member here aren't too.
There r some Hui in Chinese political forum,it's funny if they have a look at ur reply :p
Can u reply to my previous post?A certain consumption of India seems only account for 18% that of Tibetan,yes?

 

[dichoi]

Vietnam shook hands with American, Chinese and Russian enemies, so how do we best describe this mentality?

Cold war is dead.

we know well about mentality of China in cold war, you shook hands with American in back of us and socialist countries, China signed with amrican to be allied with American to counter Soviet Ussr (called hegemoy in such document dated in 1972). USSR is collapsed, US won on cold war with help of China. China is best friend of US in cold war.

Does Putin trust youm China now ?

Russia is still our friend, we can buy russia weapon now. in any time. We don't care what kinda of discussion Russia and US do in Syria or Ucrain. There is not our affair.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

You seem only want to post HDI..(The last time I see you,you post HDI as evidence.)

The statement i responded to:

Compared to India Northeast, Xinjiang and Tibet are the heaven.

I am unaware of Abacin's perception of "Heaven". But my perception of Heaven means better quality of life, for which HDI is an indicator.

Show the consumption

Consumption of ?

and GDP plz,

only Assam has higher GDP than that of Tibet at 24 billion
No NE state has higher GDP than Xinjiang

List of Indian states by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do think it's more meaningful...

I had explained the problem with using GDP to gauge development has shortfalls
:

For starters it is rather naive to equate GDP per capita directly to wealth of Tibet or Tibetans.

For example Indian state of Kerala for 2013 has GDP percapita of $1350 i.e approx 1/3.5 times Tibet's GDP and has approx 10 times the population.

Despite which the HDI of 0.790 for 2008 which greater than whole CHina's HDI for 2013 i.e 0.719 and that of Tibet's for 2010 at 0.569.

Hence despite having higher GDP per capita of Tibetan than Keralite, the quality of life of a Tibetan is poor.

So that begs the question if the money from Tibet region is not going to development of Tibetan lives, then where is it going?

http://www.economist.com/news/china...-questions-about-rush-regions-resources-price

Many miners, as well as builders of infrastructure used to service the mines, are brought in from elsewhere in China. Tellingly, only two of the miners killed by the landslide were reported to be Tibetans. Managers at big state-owned firms are usually Han Chinese, who in turn tend to regard their own ethnic kin as easier to control and communicate with than Tibetans.China Daily, a Beijing newspaper, reported last year that the Jiama mine had hired 191 locals. It said non-Han employees made up 35% of the mine operator’s staff, “the highest percentage among mining companies in China”

This gorging of Tibetan natural resources for benefit of rest of China, comes at another cost : ethnic Han Migration, which is credited for ethnic tensions in Tibet and Xinjiang

The whole idea is hiding the actual plight Tibetans who despite higher GDP per capita than India, come to India as refugees.

And show their car ownership per capita plz.
In addition,car prize in Tibet is high(because of inconvenience) and Tibetan r also poor compared to the other province,but also 10 persons a car.
I do think this statistic is much more higher than India.@Bussard Ramjet Can u tell me India's statistic?

**As for life,Tibetan live in plateau(3-5km high) so they can't live long.(Except South tibet,it isn't plateau and rich in resource.)

I am unable to find car ownership statistic for Indian states, I will respond if I do so.

 

[Bussard Ramjet]

Hu Songshan is,and I'm not pure Han,some other member here aren't too.
There r some Hui in Chinese political forum,it's funny if they have a look at ur reply :p
Can u reply to my previous post?A certain consumption of India seems only account for 18% that of Tibetan,yes?

So what other ethnicity you are?

I am sure you would have registered as that other ethnicity. (I hear most people do, due to the many benefits of it)

 

[CHN Bamboo]

The statement i responded to:



I am unaware of Abacin's perception of "Heaven". But my perception of Heaven means better quality of life, for which HDI is an indicator.


Consumption of ?


only Assam has higher GDP than that of Tibet at 24 billion
No NE state has higher GDP than Xinjiang

List of Indian states by GDP - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I had explained the problem with using GDP to gauge development has shortfalls
:






I am unable to find car ownership statistic for Indian states, I will respond if I do so.

Total?What about per capita?